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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Was this sexual assault

37 replies

Fretful · 05/01/2019 19:23

I'd be interested on any thoughts on this. It happened a few years ago, my memory is sketchy as drink was involved, and I've more or less blocked it from my mind. It keeps coming back however, more so recently as I have been trying to face up to other problems with my husband (have posted a couple of times over the last 6 months or so).

There's not much to go on, but a few years ago I was getting counselling for PTSD, having been raped as a teenager and then having to deal with a historic sex abuse case at my work (I worked with the records so had to find all the old files). I was quite stressed and depressed at this time, and don't remember being very well looked after by my husband (eg I had to keep paying 50% of the bills even though I was on sick pay).

One night we were in bed, having had what was probably a couple of bottles of wine between the two of us. He wanted to have sex, I was reluctant and wasn't particularly active in the whole thing, or turned on. I think I was trying to move away from him and go to sleep, but I just remember him muttering, 'come on let's just do this' and getting on top of me and doing the deed. I didn't tell him to stop, I don't think, though my reluctance was probably obvious. I remember crying during it, but the light was off so he probably didn't notice.

It's not rape, is it, because I didn't say no. Or is it? What do you think?

It keeps coming into my head, so I'd just be interested in anyone's thoughts. Thank you for reading this far!

OP posts:

Athena51 · 05/01/2019 20:07

You poor thing. That's horrible, you didn't give consent, you weren't willing so I would call that rape/sexual assault yes.

Lbwestf123 · 05/01/2019 20:10

You probably were coerced but as you were both drinking and you said ‘let’s just do this’

I don’t think you’d ever get a convinction.

😔 x

HettySunshine · 05/01/2019 20:14

It wasn't the op who said that, it was her vile rapist of a husband. I'm so sorry op.

Consensual sex requires both partners to actively consent. He raped you.

Can you get away from him safely?

Lbwestf123 · 05/01/2019 20:15

Oh sorry OP I’ve read that wrong. Yeah you were definitely coerced into having sex with him.

twattymctwatterson · 05/01/2019 20:16

It was rape op. I'm sorry that happened to you

Original poster

Fretful · 05/01/2019 20:25

Shit, really? Shit.

I want to leave him for other reasons (all my other posts, basically), but I know he'll be difficult and won't go easily. I need to rethink this whole thing with this 'new' information. Ugh, this is properly shit.

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratcett · 05/01/2019 20:25

It was rape.

But even if you don't want to call it that, it's repulsive. He knew you weren't enthusiastic at the very least. He must have known you weren't into it. And he didn't check if you were having a good time, in fact you were crying

Even if you had given consent which you didn't, he shouldn't have carried on because you weren't having a good time.

dontgobaconmyheart · 05/01/2019 20:26

I'm sorry and hope it's not too blunt, but yes it was OP. Your husband raped you, because he wanted sex. There is no such thing as pre-consent based on having previously been intimate, it is not less of a crime because he is your husband. Alcohol does not play a part either, legally consent cannot be given if you are under the influence.

I suspect you are minimising his part in this in order to deal with accepting what he has done. You know you said no, and he is presumably not deaf. You say you had the same to drink and you remember it, so there is no reason to write it off that he was 'just drunk and had no idea'. He doesnt deserve any excuses.

I've not read any of your other threads but it cannot possible be a f
Good idea to be around this man, do you have other options or somewhere else you can be if you leave? Could you re engage with a counsellor to discuss these events?
It sounds like you've worked very hard over the years to deal with your mental health in terms of rhe PTSD and that's really admirable. As is having the bravery and self awareness to actively think about whether he treats you well and whether this is right or wrong. In doing so and assessing whether actually, i deserve better, you are valuing yourself. And you should!

MrsTerryPratcett · 05/01/2019 20:26

X-posted.

I'm sorry that happened to you. And I'm glad you're breaking up with him.

Renarde1975 · 05/01/2019 20:28

Coercian is rape. It is very difficult to prove. I believe you OP.

Italiangreyhound · 05/01/2019 20:32

Fretful I am so sorry you seem to have been through an awful lot. Are you getting counselling?

I'm not any kind of expert in the law so I do not know if this would be 'rape' in law.

It may well be but it would be hard to prove. Your husband (still your husband or now your ex?) may not think it was rape but that is not the thing for it to be judged on.

I wonder if talking about this with a professional would help you move on. Especially if he is your ex.

If you are still together then I really think you do need to talk to someone in real life to help you process all this.

"There's not much to go on, but a few years ago I was getting counselling for PTSD, having been raped as a teenager and then having to deal with a historic sex abuse case at my work (I worked with the records so had to find all the old files)."

This is so much to deal with. You poor thing.

"I was quite stressed and depressed at this time, and don't remember being very well looked after by my husband (eg I had to keep paying 50% of the bills even though I was on sick pay)."

This is appalling. He sounds incredibly mean/grabby.

Really I hope he is your ex, if not, please do seek counselling to help you process this

Lbwestf123 the OP said "but I just remember him muttering, 'come on let's just do this' and getting on top of me and doing the deed." Him, not the OP.

Italiangreyhound · 05/01/2019 20:33

Sorry I cross posted with loads of people.

Italiangreyhound · 05/01/2019 20:38

OP things have not changed exactly but you are just faving up to what he is like.

"I want to leave him for other reasons (all my other posts, basically), but I know he'll be difficult and won't go easily. I need to rethink this whole thing with this 'new' information. Ugh, this is properly shit."

However, difficult he is, you can leave him. Soeak to a solicitor and get your ducks in a row.

Sorry I assumed he was out of your life. I have not read any of your other threads.

Italiangreyhound · 05/01/2019 20:38

Facing up to...

Original poster

Fretful · 05/01/2019 20:40

Thank you for all your replies.

This is so surreal, as it happened in 2014, and we have 3 kids, the youngest of whom was born in 2016. It's always been just under the surface, but when I mentioned it to the counsellor not long after it happened, she didn't really react, which I think informed my response to it over the next few years.

We are still married, but I have asked him to leave because of his anger and the effects on our children - he refused. I have a bit of a plan for the next few weeks to make progress with trying to get him to go, but I need to hold my nerve.

Thanks again for your kind words and support. I'm shaking with the overwhelming consensus, but appreciate your input.

OP posts:

Original poster

Fretful · 05/01/2019 20:43

I'm going to ask for access to my records from when I had counselling to see if the councillor made any mention of what I said and her response...

OP posts:

Athena51 · 05/01/2019 21:23

All the best with your plans to leave. Keep posting if you need support. I'm rooting for you

Original poster

Fretful · 05/01/2019 21:38

Thank you Athena51, it's so lovely to hear people I've never met say they support me. Sitting here crying, completely overwhelmed and confused.

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratcett · 05/01/2019 21:42

Some counsellors are trained to not react forcefully to people saying they have been sexually assaulted. Because it can make the person in counselling feel ashamed or traumatised again. And it can affect evidence if the person reports the rape. Maybe she handled it badly but that could be why.

Original poster

Fretful · 05/01/2019 21:45

I hadn't thought of that, MrsTerryPratcett, it would make sense. Really hope something was noted in my file, all of a sudden it's the most important aspect of the whole thing, even though I've buried it for 4 years!

OP posts:

JadeChristina · 06/01/2019 09:41

Oh my god, you poor thing! I would definitely say that was rape as you did not give consent and was not willing!

Please try and get away from him.

Coffeeat12 · 06/01/2019 11:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AdaArdor · 06/01/2019 11:17

I'm so sorry for what you've been through. The fact your husband didn't notice you crying during sex is very very sad and I think any decent man who heard that would agree he is a selfish pig who doesn't deserve to be intimate with any other human being.

I agree with PP who have said don't read too much into your therapist's reactions. They are trained to be non-judgmental. I've told my therapists many awful things expecting her to recoil in horror, and she reacts like I've mentioned the weather is nice today. And that's a good thing. It's to make sure patients feel safe, not judged, and to help us come to terms with things that have happened to us in a gentle way.

You sound like you are ready to leave and, despite the awfulness of this scenario, I hope the positive you can find in it is that it gives you the nail in the coffin reason to leave him. I hope 2019 will be the year you end this relationship and find happiness.

Ada

GraceMarks · 06/01/2019 12:29

Coffeeat12 the OP was crying and he carried on anyway, how can you call that "nothing"? You're a deeply unpleasant individual if you think that's the sort of thing a woman ought to let go.

HettySunshine · 06/01/2019 13:04

Coffeeat12 appears to be male.

Shocking

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