So we are separating, but very complex relationship. Advice needed.

[Bearsinmotion]

DP and I live together, been together 10 years, 2DC. Joint mortgage, not married.

DP is a hoarder and has other MH issues. As a result the house is a tip. It is becoming a health hazard and he will not acknowledge this. He gets very angry, increasingly frequently, and I have finally had enough. All came out over Christmas in front of my family, who are all very supportive. DSis lives nearby ish and has offered for us to live with her, but that wouldn’t work long term.

DP is currently all sweetness and light. He recognises that how he has behaved does look like emotional abuse, but it isn’t, as a) he has OCD and b) his family “say shit they don’t mean when they are angry “.

Now, DP wants to stay in the house. He doesn’t want to be separated from his hoard, which is mostly recycling that should just be chucked out, but is framing it as needing to “look after us”.

My current plan is to get my ducks in a row ASAP, if I can keep him calm until then. He’s not physically violent, “just” “ emotionally abusive and controlling. Luckily my work is very flexible and I have a strong support network. But what should I be preparing?

Family all know and are supportive, although living with them would make it very difficult to get DC to school and nursery. But obviously don’t want to leave the family home. There is no way I can afford the mortgage on my own.

I have requested a home visit from a health visitor. I have “evidence” (text messages, witnesses etc) of the emotional abuse. I am saving for an escape fund. What else should I do?

You are not married.

All that your DP owes you is to pay you child maintenance for your (plural) children if they end up living with you more in the week than him.

Whoever can afford to pay the mortgage on their own is entitled to buy out the other one.

What other rights do you think you have as an unmarried woman in a couple?

Should add, DP has agreed to counselling, not to save the relationship but to co parent. Personally I don’t think a reputable counsellor would see us together given the circumstances, but could be wrong...

Visit a solicitor. He’ll have to agree to buy you our or sell the house.

See a good solicitor asap. I think your situation may be weakened by not being married though.

I'm not an expert but it seems to me the main issue is the housing. You have a joint mortgage so I guess the current property would need to be sold if neither party could afford to buy out the other and sustain the ongoing mortgage on their own. This hopefully would give you both some down payment you could use as deposit for rent or to buy another home at some point? But the much more pressing issue I think is how are you going to get you ex detached from their hoard enough to make the home presentable for sale? Hopefully people with experience can guide you OP it seems very tricky but you are clearly making the right choice for you and your children.

OP you don't need counselling for co-parenting.

If you are definitely separating then you need to sort out a parenting plan. Use Google to see how to go about it in England and Wales. Remember the parenting plan is in the children's interests it is not about you and him.

• If you are both in agreement then you can write one between you and save tonnes of money.

• If you can't agree then you need to go to mediation and spend a couple of thousand pounds.

• If you really can't agree after one or both of you refuses to go to mediation and actually mediate, then expect to spend about 25K plus on solicitors fees and court.

In regards to the house that is a separate legal issue to your children as you are not married.

In your shoes op I’d be asking your dp to buy you out of the house. With his mh issues, and the house itself, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to sell it. Either he won’t want to move, as this will mean moving his hoard, and it’ll be a nightmare to sell due to his hoard. Best case scenario is he buys you out, which hopefully will give you enough capital to buy your own home.

As for co parenting. Do you want this? I’m not sure if I’d want to co parent (I see this as 50/50) with someone who lives in a home like this and is also emotionally abusive. I think in your shoes I’d be happier with eow and maybe half the school holidays. In this case he’ll be paying you child maint. As you’re not married that’s about all you’re entitled to from him. Depending on how much you earn you might be entitled to some benefits.

Sorting out child arrangements won’t cost you thousands. You can go to mediation which will cost a few hundred £, if you can’t agree, it will go to court and a judge will decide. Please bare in mind it’s whats best for the dc, not the parents. You can easily represent yourself, so no need for expensive solicitors. My friend did this and got a fair outcome she was happy with. As she represented herself the judge spent time walking her through the process and she was no was disadvantaged by not having a solicitor.

£25k on court to sort out contact?! Bloody he'll Amy if that's what you spent you must have been sorting more than just contact. I've been through mediation and court more than once and have only spent a fraction of that in total.

Get a skip and clear it all. Its a health risk and unbearable to live with. If he wanys it he gets it out of the skip.and takes it somewhere else.

I agree with others, you priority is to secure your equity in the house if you cannot afford the mortgage on your own. But get some financial advice to confirm this.

Plan A would be for him to leave whilst you sell the house. Speak to your lender and ask for a mortgage holiday or interest only pending a sale.

Plan B is he buys you out. But I wouldn’t trust him to do this. He wants you to stay so with try to keep you dependent or reliant on him. You have described somebody who is capable of being manipulative, strange in a Menta illness.

I wouldn’t leave him alone in the house as he will never sell or remortgage.

What kind of equity do you have?

You said he has MH issues and hoarding would be a symptom but has he been diagnosed. I note his lack of control has resolved since you talked of leaving. This implies he does have control and his issues may be behavioural and may not be treatable.

Okay counselling is probably pointless and just another way for him to control you - like you are part of his hoard and as long as he can make you be in the therapy room, talking then he 'has you' - don't give him that.
My ex is very similar except I never paid the mortgage as he owned his house outright.

I wish I had got official people involved at the start so that someone could back me up and tell him it (the house, his behaviour etc) wasn't okay. People like that will deny they have a problem til they are blue in the face and hoarding is almost impossible to treat and worsens with age. I didn't think ex could get worse but he has got so so much worse since I left him. He was also the same, not physically violent but intimidating, emotionally abusive and controlling. Very angry. He still is, he just doesn't have much of a hold over me because I am mostly extricated and it's bliss.

Dealing with him is still the bane of my life and the thing that has tested me the most - I've had over 10 years of his shit. I'm counting down to when I am free of him, especially when he's at his worst. When he's nice it's a relief but I am always waiting for the next time.

So my advice would be, yes save as much money as you can. What does he do for work? Mine also hoards money and getting money for DC out of him is like blood out a stone. If you go the official route re: hammering out contact, think long and hard about whether you're prepared to let him see his kids in the house. If you do not allow this, you'll need to get offical people on side as to why it's an unsuitable environment for them - I so wish I had done this. You really need legal advice, basically.

Emotionally you'll want to get your OWN counselling or long term therapy (not with him!) to help you heal from this and work out why you got ensnared in all this. I find that if I make my ex really small and unimportant in my inner world, i.e have a lot going on that he doesn't know about, doesn't include him, that he can't fuck up and ruin, then the happier I am. He has no power over me now. Only do all that once you're safely out of course.
But, yeah - legal advice, re selling the house and contact with the kids is a must. I wish you so much luck.

This is a man with serious mental health issues. A reasonable agreement between the two of us is very unlikely.

Babymamamama, you are spot on. Although I can’t currently afford the mortgage I’m not far off, and we could afford for DP to rent a flat. I just don’t think he will at the moment. I would really worry about him living alone in his current mental state but I must put the children first.

Jamie your suggestion would possibly out the OP in physical danger from violence. Have you lived with a hoarder?

He definitely has MH issues, diagnosed as a child and had medication for years.

Thanks Rhubarbtea, although sorry to hear you have been through this too.

What do you mean about “official people “? Solicitor, social services?

He doesn’t hoard money. He does love the kids and I like to think he wouldn’t want them to suffer financially.

I never went via any official channels so don't even know. Doctor, health visitor, court etc I guess? With me and my ex we 50/50 and I hate it, my DC dreads going but doesn't want to not go as is worried about the fallout and 'hurting dad's feelings'. We never went to court or did anything official and he doesn't pay me anything, which he likes. Occasionally he will buy clothes and I ahve managed to get him to pay half for things like swimming lessons only but I have to ask him for the money each and every month, which he also likes.

Basically these people will mess you up and drag you down with them, they'll only be happy when you're as depressed as them. So try and get him to buy you out or legally force a sale, through official channels, and then try and clear your head of him. Living with a hoarder is MISERABLE and even 10 years on I am elated when I get to come home to a neat(ish) normal happy home. It never gets old.

Thanks Rhubarb. I actually don’t think DP could manage the kids on his own, I am not sure he even wants to.

I do love the house, it is gorgeous and in a perfect location, if only it could be clean. But it is very expensive. If we could sell, I could afford a smaller 3 bed in the same area. But we would have to sell this place first...

You say in your first post "no way" could you afford the mortgage then later that's you almost can. So I think a priority is to review your finances pdq.

Will your mortgage provider let you extend the repayment period? Might reduce monthly payments. What can you cut back from Monthly outgoings - bills travel car activities food phone etc. Being a single mother all too often means a drop in standards for living so you perhaps could pay the mortgage if you are willing to do that.

Are you due a pay rise? When did you last have one, is it worth asking for one?

You can't tell him to leave the house tho as joint mortgage holders, he will have to agree to go. So also consider can he buy you out and you buy smaller place for kids nearby?

Mediation might well be your best move. You'll be amazed what it can achieve. Good luck.

Re: mediation - who does this? Lawyers?

Meant to say thanks Buckingfrolics! When I say I can nearly afford it, we were renegotiating the mortgage, and I am already in discussions about a promotion so already taken that into account. If DP contributed the difference he would still clear £2k a month...

Sorry if this is all a bit garbled, I am thinking aloud here!

Does he work, OP? Can he afford to buy you out? I'm assuming not but can't see where you've referred to it.

He does work, currently earning slightly more than me. He couldn’t buy me out though.

Have you spoken to Women's Aid?

Mental health issues and his choice to abuse you are separate.

You can't reason with him because he's abusive. He's not interested in reason, he's interested in having control.

Coercive control is a crime, irrespective of violence.

Longer term you may want to include doing the Freedom Programme in your plans. Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Have you lived with a hoarder
My sister is one. To the point her daughter can't have friends home or find anything, the cats defecate behind piles of rubbish and can't get to it so it stinks.
I doubt she'd become violent if you cleared it but she'd be very pissed off. Thing is it's to the detriment of everything and everyone and tough. If I was psychotic, manic or depressed I'd seek help for the kids. Hoarding's the same. If he's violent tough, call the police and start showing him you're serious, he sounds awful.