Is he abusive, do I need to leave?

[louisianna36]

Hi all, I need the opinions of some wise women, I have name changed as frankly I'm embarrassed as I often give advice but I'm struggling myself in my marriage of 12 years.

DH is very unorganised and forgetful, loses his keys, phone, bank card etc and it's incredibly frustrating, he then gets shitty or moody with me if I can't immediately fix it for him or if I then get annoyed by it. So 2 days ago when he forgot two things he needed and I then had to sort it for him (making us both late), I said "it's so bloody annoying when you do this as it then becomes my problem and inconveniences me. You don't say sorry babe, my fault I should have remembered x. You are then in a shitty mood with me"

His reply "well when I am running late and have forgotten something that last thing I need is a lecture from you."

I proceeded to say "it's like having 2 children and you are like a manchild"

He then ended the argument with "I hate you and I'm done with you".

We haven't spoken since.

And we all forget something from time to time we are human, but it then becomes my fault, the sulks and complaining are directed at me.

He will just say he is in a bad mood but then we have to walk on egg shells as to not anger daddy.

Yesterday during a rant he told DD to shut up, she is 4. She also heard him say he hates me and then today asked why he said that.

Ugh you can’t live with that. Your poor DD.

Your H is abusive.

He has no excuse for treating a 4 year old like that.

He is a fully grown adult and is responsible for himself and his belongings.

He is abusive and has no right to treat you as a surrogate mother on the one hand and his whipping boy on the other.

LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB LTB

From reading post initially I thought he wasn't abusive... but if he insults you, and twists everything and other things you've mentioned.. then YES he's abusive !! And in my experience of a 20 year abusive relationship they never change ..but after reading book recommendations on Mumsnet by Lundy Bancroft called "why does he do that".. it's amazing and gave me the strength I needed to leave my abusive husband of 20yrs in September.. I'm going thur hell at the moment.. but I know it will all work out in the end !
Life should be full of happiness not spent with someone who makes you miserable and resentful.
I never want a man again 😆
Good luck on your journey and whatever you do don't waste your life like I have.. it's also better for the children to leave earlier rather then waiting till they've been poisoned by the toxic abuser. Xx

The first part of the discussion seemed fine, your comment on manchild was inflammatory so he reacted..or over reacted.
However you then describe stonewalling, name calling, blame and controlling by calling constantly. Does he shout at work or with family? If not then you know it's not just "anger".

Read "the verbally abusive relationship" bu Patricia Evans as that helps to frame the toxic conversations.

I have actually asked him about this and said do you shout at your friends? Do you shout at work? And he said he does.

I think I need to stop being inflammatory, as that then gives him a reason to turn it up 50 notches and then say it was my fault.

The calling loads is weird isn't it? I said it was weird and he said it wasn't and he needed to get hold of me. It was nothing urgent just something else he forgot to do that he then wanted me to take of.

Makes me not want a phone.

I think I need to stop being inflammatory, as that then gives him a reason to turn it up 50 notches and then say it was my fault.

Don't modify your behaviour. Leave him.

You are nothing but a house slave/thing finder.

He is abusive to a four year old.

Get your stuff together and leave.

He'll find his stuff so much faster when your stuff is gone from the house.

You and your child deserve better than that abusive twat.

The calling lots is controlling .

Would think about leaving.
There is a very good read in relationships about leaving an emotionally abusive partner and going to a shelter.
I think you should read it to get the DD response to what was happening around her.
Also don’t go away with him.

Louisa sorry you didn't mention this in your OP so in it it just looks like he's a forgetful person blaming you. But those things you mention are not healthy and yes if it's a pattern then I'd say abuse. If you want verification call women's aid and literally tell them what they do and ask what they think. That's what I did and they confirmed my ex was emotionally/mentally and financially abusive

Man children always find someone who will mother them, you don’t have to mother him, you choose to.

This is who he is, there isn’t a better version of him hiding round the corner, especially if the status quo is you acting like his bloody mum.

If you keep accepting the status quo, there’s no incentive for him to raise his game.

I was googling women's aid yesterday as I'm not exactly sure what they do. Do you talk to them about your situation an they tell you what your relationship is like? Don't they just think this is just one side though?

I have read the first Bundy Lycroft and downloaded the 'should I stay or go yesterday' and I'm working my way through that.

I think I remember reading on mumsnet once about not attempting marriage counselling with someone with abusive tendencies. Does anyone know why?

I laid it all on the table last night about how fed up I am, about how I am ready to leave and tired or his poor organisation and his temper. He was very apologetic, I said it's not enough and he needs to actually put things in place to sort things out.

I told him about his abusive language and how DD heard and he needs to explain to her, which he did.

He did try to twist things and say if you hadn't had said x I wouldn't say y, but I suppose I did cock up by calling him a manchild. What do we always say on here, don't call each other names, and I did first, so I'm no saint.

We went to bed separately, what to do next, I don't know.

Welll done for doing your research.

The Lundy Bancroft books are great and will give you a lot of insight into your situation.

And it’s ok to not know what to do now. You don’t have to do anything if you don’t want to, you can just watch and wait.

See what actions your DH takes. Assume his promises to change are just words until you see any evidence of change. “ I’ll try to do better “ is pretty worthless.

Don’t mention it to him again. If he really wants to save your marriage, then he will seek professional support for his anger issues and put systems in place to help with his disorganisation.

In the meantime, stop doing things for him. Don’t make suggestions. Put your phone on silent when you are out with friends, he will text if it’s a genuine emergency.

I’d also advise you to go for marriage counselling ALONE. As you already know, it’s not recommended to go with an abuser. In fact, if you register as a couple, they will ask you first if there is abuse and if you tell them they will REFUSE to do joint sessions . This is good practice.

This is because you won’t be free to say how you really think and feel , because the abuser will use it against you later. And he will manipulate the sessions to make it all about him. Joint counselling when there is abuse can actually make things worse.

So you should go alone . There’s usually a waiting list so get your name down now, don’t wait. In your situation , I wouldn’t tell your husband that you are going . But if you do have tell him, just say you are going to get help for your own issues ( all the things he says you do and say wrong).

Then don’t tell him ANYTHING about what happens at the sessions, it needs to be confidential. This is important .

You ring woman's aid helpline and all I said was I think my partner is abusive and literally off loaded the main things he done. She then confirmed it was. She then gave me places to go in my local area for abuse. I ended up in a refuge through my local DA charity. I went to a meeting first as I didn't think it was that serious.
Also you should look into the freedom programme. It teaches you the cycle of abuse. Atm he will be nice and try to hide the real him to keep you with him. And then the cycle will start all again once his act drops. Also be prepared for threats of suicide if you lomeave it making you making you feel guilty for breaking the family up. It's a tactic alot of abusers use to keep you there

Blimey confidential, ok I could probably do it after work and just say I'm working late.

That's good advice about waiting to see any action, in terms of his organisation there is a new 2019 calendar in the kitchen he said he is going to put everything on there. I already know he won't do anything, or he will do it for a few weeks and then it will all be the same again.

The Lundy Bycroft book is helpful, the only thing I doubt is all the journal writing stuff and the exercises, I can't see my DH sitting and writing letters and writing in a journal etc, he isn't really a writer and would struggle so I don't know if it would be pointless.

Last night after our conversation he wanted a cuddle and I said no, I know it was to make him feel better not me. He will be super lovely caring husband now, he always is. He will then ask me why I am not being loving back. He thinks he can tell me he hates me and I should snap out of it when he says he doesn't mean it.

About the calendar - watch that he doesn’t think that it’s his job to write things on it and then your job to do them / remind him of them.

It needs to be a reminder / action list for HIM not you.

Be vigilant that he is the one to come up with solutions and implement them. Don’t agree to anything that involves you doing more stuff and therefore taking the blame when it goes wrong.

The Lundy Bancroft books are for YOU to understand what’s going on in your relationship. They are NOT for him. The journal/ letter writing is to help you work out what you want. It’s not to change how he acts.

Him being Abusive and then “super lovely caring” is part of the cycle of abuse. It’s very confusing as you begin to doubt your own perceptions and think it’s not that bad or you are just as much to blame.

It’s textbook stuff.

I'm almost at the point where I think "manchild" is an insult to children.

My DS is in his early 20s, lives with me, has dyspraxia and dyslexia. Sometimes he forgets to do stuff because of this. Never in the last 8 years (i.e. since adolescence!) has he attempted to blame me for "why didn't you remind me", "Why are you lecturing me for forgetting", etc.

He just says "Oh crap, sorry mum I forgot."

I then propose a solution, e.g. forgot to put the bins out? You're in charge of taking rubbish to the tip then.

Never in his entire life has he said he hates me, or called me a name.

He's been angry with me plenty of times, but he's able to react like an adult and say "I'm angry about X. Let's talk about this."

(And I'm not a strict disciplinarian by any means, our parent-child relationship has been based around understanding, compromise and love.)

If my 23yr old with numerous traumas can manage this, then a grown ass man should have no issues.

Annoying but not abusive.

I've just realised my entire post reads like a stealth parent boast. I'M SORRY. I just meant to point out that calling him a manchild is giving him more credit than he's due!

It didn’t read like a stealth boast to me , NotTheFordType. I read it as an honest and helpful comment.

NottheFordtype I didn't read it as that at all, I completely understand what you were saying.

He is super lovely husband today. It's so predictable.

Sounds like dyspraxia - my stbexh sounds just like that. Forgets everything (then it's my fault for not putting it in calendar) completely disorganised, flys off the handle if I suggest anything. I have only realised its that now as our dd has been diagnosed and I realise I see the same traits in him . I'm just hoping I manage to reach her some organisational skills before she gets to adulthood.

*Yesterday during a rant he told DD to shut up, she is 4. She also heard him say he hates me and then today asked why he said that.^

You are living with an abuser and setting up your poor child to learn this is how relationships are.

I feel heartbroken for her.

My ds has dyspraxia and one thing they said was not only is he not organised he sees no reason to be. They just don't get why you need to be organised, then get totally stressed when something goes wrong.
They don't see what you do to stay on top of things and can't understand why stuff goes wrong on them. Its like someone with dyslexia not getting why others can read so easily.
If you are not wanting to leave just step back. If he is looking for his keys tell him if you see them but don't go in a mad scurry looking for them. If you have a box for keys at the front door just say..probably in the key box!! ( They wont be)
You are not responsible for searching. Its up to him dyspraxia or not to put things in place to help himself.
Is there any time ye can have a conversation peacefully about it. It is stressful for him but that doesn't give him permission to be nasty.