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Original poster

What DH said when I challenged him about having so many christmas 'outings'

75 replies

Sumadoo · 15/12/2018 19:14

I breastfeed.
We have a baby and a toddler.
I can't go out much due to the demands of feeding, although I do go out from time to time with friends for a few hours.
DH seems to have many christmas commitments, by this I mean parties, gatherings etc.
I would say he will have attended around 5 Christmas related outings in total by the end of the month.
I think this is a lot, considering no effort has been made to arrange or encourage a christmas meal out for the 2 of us together. I feel he's a little assuming when it comes to me providing the childcare whilst he goes out as we are up and down the stairs with both children for a couple of hours each evening at the moment.

When I challenged him about the number of christmas outings he has decided to attend (emphasising the impact on me with the children in the evening and of course during the night when I am having to soothe them if they wake because he's had too much to drink and isn't waking up) he said
"Just because you can't go out, it doesn't mean i can't."

I just feel quite hurt by this.
If he had made the effort to have some special time at home with me over christmas or even have suggested us going out for a couple of hours ourselves, I think I'd be less offended.
It just sounds so entitled of him to say this? It's really affected me.
Also, he has made zero contributions to the actual organising of christmas, the present buying, the wrapping has all been left to me. It feels like I'm left with the drudgery whilst he's out having fun.

Would you feel a bit upset by this remark? I feel there's a massive lack of team spirit implied by what he has said.

OP posts:
AnoukSpirit · 15/12/2018 20:27

He says he wouldn't have an issue with you going out as much as he is.

So what actions has he taken to enable this to happen and back up his words?

I also remain to be convinced that becoming distressed at unreasonable behaviour is "picking a fight".

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 15/12/2018 20:28

if a woman posted that her dh always picked a fight with her before she went out, the cries of 'controlling' and 'LTB' wouldn't be far behind

Let's face it, it's hardly likely to happen though, considering it's almost always the woman who stays at home to look after a newborn.

GrabEmByThePatriarchy · 15/12/2018 20:34

It does sound possible that you are being a whiny martyr, though. He has apparently said that he would be willing to look after DC if you express milk, so you could go out (though it's difficult to assess whether he actually means this or has been saying it in full knowledge that you won't do so.)

OP says she struggles to express, so no it doesn't sound possible she's being a whiny martyr. This may of course be part of the reason he's offering, safe in the knowledge that he won't need to follow through on it if baby is to remain ebf.

It's not so much the nights out as the uselessness the next day that would really fuck me off. Unilaterally opting out of looking after your own children not only 5 weekend nights in a month but also some of the days immediately afterwards too is twat behaviour. Especially when there's a baby and a toddler, there's just so much grunt work at that time. It's exhausting. It never stops. If he's at work and OP is on ML with the two kids, that's a huge chunk of the time where OP could have it a bit easier that he's reserved for himself there.

ShotsFired · 15/12/2018 20:37

I have been on multiple sides of this!

Many years ago I had a boyfriend (I was away at uni, he was home) who would deliberately phone me before a weekly night out with my sports club, and reduce me to tears by accusing me of having fun and not loving him etc (he would go much further than that, but not relevant to this post). It DID put a real damper on any time I had out, and it was unnecessary.

However just this week alone I have been to two Christmas parties, and I have had a great time at both. Then I got back in my car and drove home, because I'd stayed sober. Given your domestic situation, I would accept that he'll be out more at Christmas, BUT he could easily mitigate it. 12hrs drinking? Get real.

Meanwhile I'd be working on the expressing issues and also setting up a lot more time for yourself in January.

SunnyCoco · 15/12/2018 20:40

Sorry you’re feeling down. I think his comment was mean but honestly I don’t think 5 outings during the whole month is excessive - especially at Christmas! Just over once per week.
It’s just one of those things with breastfeeding unfortunately. And yes, I’ve been there. Your time will come 👍

OneStepMoreFun · 15/12/2018 20:49

Er, you can go out. Express milk and go out five times yoruself. Men like that don't actually 'get' how unfair they are being until you behave with equal rights to theirs.

Lollypop701 · 15/12/2018 20:57

@OneStepMoreFun
^ this! Go for a spa day, go shopping it does not matter what you do, do it! And leave your phone at home. My dh did similar, I actually didn’t mind, but then I did go out

MadeForThis · 15/12/2018 21:03

I would make the effort to express. He needs to understand that you are the mother. Not the default baby sitter. He should have consulted you before agreeing plans. Made sure you were free. Not asked permission but had a conversation about plans and responsibilities.

My DH has been out overnight a couple of times - to concerts, weddings etc while I stayed home with the girls. But it was always discussed beforehand. It's just respect.

TatianaLarina · 15/12/2018 21:58

Er, you can go out. Express milk and go out five times yoruself. Men like that don't actually 'get' how unfair they are being until you behave with equal rights to theirs.

This.

subspace · 15/12/2018 22:06

I do hope you haven't arranged any presents for his mum, cards for his family etc.

SuperSuperSuper · 15/12/2018 22:17

He sounds selfish - it is not so much the five evenings, but the subsequent hangovers and the sense of entitlement.

I think that sniping at him before he goes out, and playing the Christmas martyr, is counterproductive though. It's irritating, despite the fact that he's behaving poorly. It won't get you anywhere.

ScrantonTheElectricCity · 15/12/2018 22:18

Your mum should step in?? Is she the 3rd parent then?!!! Wow, that takes the biscuit!
If he is talking about mums - why doesn't he ask his to help? Not that either should have to but it's all in his terms

Aquilla · 15/12/2018 22:28

Change to formula then like everyone else not on Mumsnet?

Baileyswithice1 · 15/12/2018 22:30

“'d be very tempted to express a load of milk over the next few days, put it in the fridge and let him know that now you 'can' go out you will!

He is so selfish!”

THIS!!!

I 100% would do this! I hate the sense of entitlement some guys think they have by assuming the mum will do all the childcare as they swan about how they please!! I would honestly give him a taste of his own medicine.

Sethis · 15/12/2018 22:39

Sounds like there's blame on both sides tbh. Maybe not equal blame, but nobody is smelling of roses right now.

You get pissy at him because he goes out.

He gets pissy because you're pissy.

Nobody wins.

It's probably too late for this year, but maybe a better option next year would be for you to both agree in advance how many Xmas outings are "reasonable" for each of you, and for you both to be able to go to that many.

If you have an issue with how work is divided in the day to day, then you need to sort that out, completely independent of the Xmas outings. It sounds like you're already living in a state of being constantly irritated by the work imbalance and that translates into even more aggravation when he goes out.

Yes he's being an arse and saying stupid things, but on the other hand it doesn't sound like you gave him a particularly fair shake to begin with on the subject of the outings - you say you "challenged it" when surely a better solution would have been to have a non-confrontational chat about it in the first instance? The fact that the first conversation on the topic was an argument rather than a calm and friendly compromise isn't a great sign.

oiiiiiii · 15/12/2018 22:50

Have you been insistent on breastfeeding only? Is mixed feeding an option?

Honestly I'd start mix feeding and going out without asking him but simply telling him.

If you've insisted on exclusive bf despite difficulty expressing - then although he's been mean, he's also not wrong. If you've chosen this then it is a little u to expect him to stay home with you all the time.

If you're mix feeding then it can become more equitable and I think that would be better for all of you. Breastfeeding isn't actually that important tbh. (I bf but looking back my exh strong armed me into continuing ... Because he wanted me at home unable to leave for very long)

Villagelifer · 15/12/2018 23:28

I didn't read all the posts but some people don't seem to get it. It's not about OP going out as much as her husband. It's about him not caring about how hard it is for her to cope on her own everytime he goes out. She makes the effort once, twice, five times and he keeps going. He's selfish and inconsiderate.
Expressing milk is bloody hard and I wouldn't change my decision on the best way to feed my child to get back at my husband for taking me for granted.
He needs to step up and be part of the team. I would be very upset at his lack of support and empathy.

Blondebakingmumma · 15/12/2018 23:34

I don’t think 5 times out is a lot. Can hubby compromise by helping our kids to bed and then head out. Also not get blind drunk so he can still be responsible for helping overnight

timeisnotaline · 15/12/2018 23:43

Expressing is hard for some women and it makes me miserable. To go out 5 times I’d have to express as a minimum (because this is what I did last time and it wasn’t quite enough) 3 bottles which is 9 sessions , so more than 45 times. It’s not quick for me either, and I have a baby and toddler. I’ve given up.

It’s often not that the op wants to go out in these cases , it’s that the woman with the baby doesn’t want to parent solo several exhausting nights a week! In my current sleep deprived state dh being out means I have the baby till they go to bed which is about 12-1am. Zero evening to me, all tidying and cleaning post getting the 3yo to bed done in snatched minutes, then baby focus till we both collapse. I am supportive of my dh going out on his work drinks but hes home at 11 or 12 and able to hold the baby when he gets home because he knows it’s tough. We both wanted this baby, we are both committed to the difficult small baby period.

Mxyzptlk · 15/12/2018 23:57

I feel there's a massive lack of team spirit implied by what he has said.

There is.
He sees you and kiddies as a unit which has little to do with him.
You need to make it clear to him why you are not happy about his going out, especially about the heavy drinking and hangovers, and that you need his help with the children.

thighofrelief · 16/12/2018 00:11

I do understand that what he said was hurtful and dismissive. But the OPs reason that she gives for her not going out is difficulty expressing.

Making up a bottle or two of formula in order to go out with him or by yourself won't have a detrimental effect on established bf. Then you could have that romantic meal you said you want.

goldengummybear · 16/12/2018 00:43

If the 5 nights means going out then in bed with a hangover the next day then yanbu.

ReanimatedSGB · 16/12/2018 00:48

That was one of the reasons I ended up being quite glad I couldn't BF - at least I could have a night out when I wanted one.

AnotherEmma · 16/12/2018 01:09

I think breastfeeding is a red herring. Obviously bottle feeding (whether formula or ebm) does make it easier for mothers to have longer breaks if they want them. But if you are breastfeeding you can still share the load. There is still a hell of a lot of other parenting and family-related work (cooking, laundry, etc) that can be shared. It's a big burden to place on one parent, to leave them solely responsible for two young children while the other parent regularly abdicates their responsibilities by not just going out but getting so drunk that they need to sleep it off and are incapable of pulling their weight the following day. Breastfeeding is a nice convenient excuse isn't it?!

thighofrelief · 16/12/2018 02:06

Emma yes, good point. Although it does hold water if OP cannot leave baby at all. BF shouldn't lead to social exclusion which it effectively does re nights out if no bottle, even of ebm, can be left.

I am very pro bf having done it and enjoyed it but you can leave them with the occasional bottle or Sippy cup if old enough. Otherwise life in unbearable.

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