Husband doing job + wife doing higher paying job and all childcare and household chores

[Worriedmum97]

As topic states we have a husband who works full time, drops kids to school/nursery in the morning, spends 15 min in the evening on reloading dishwasher, tidying up toys. Wife who works full time, earns more, leaves work at 5pm to pick up kids, feed them, do homework, get kids to bed. We have a nanny for 12 hours a week who cooks dinner, does some cleaning and school run. Everything else is done by wife: family meals planning, grocery ordering, school activities, clothes, family holidays and much much more. Every time I complain to my husband about inequality he reminds me that he never works too much overtime and is always around and offers help. But with 2 small kids at home and no family around I’m just exhausted, all these doctor appointments, medications for kids, birthday parties, homework, school lunches, costumes, it’s all in my head. And have you forgotten that I have a full time job and 2+ hours of commute a day? What others do in a similar situation? medium.com/s/jessica-valenti/kids-dont-damage-women-s-careers-men-do-eb07cba689b8.

Have a good think about what you want and spell it out exactly.

I can absolutely promise you that there will always be a reason why he 'can't' and why he needs the time more than you. It'll be because of this project or that one. Then, that boss not this one. These work budgets. That lazy coworker or poor team. It won't end until you make sure it does. So start right now, and tell him we all have circumstances and he isn't the expert on yours.

Also try to be more self aware. Are you someone who thinks you are assertive, whilst in practice he always gets his own way? If so, what does that tell you?

worriedmum I honk part of the solution is him seeing the issue. If he thinks he does his share, using this cartoon may help him to see that he’s not really. Or help you articulate why you are struggling.
I’m amazed with my couple friends, how many of them this applies to. Women have taken on bigger roles outside of the Home and yet men haven’t taken on an equal role in the house. Even if they do jobs they are often project managed by the woman. How many men know, without asking, when the parties are, what presents to get, what clubs are when...

I'm always frustrated on MN when I see threads that go:

• Husband has higher-paying job: it must be protected at all costs and he must be shielded from housework /childcare to allow him to focus on his career. Wife gets PT job and flexs around the kids.

• Wife has higher-paying job: she must have more flexibility, therefore she can deal with childcare to allow him to focus on his career. (It's just assumed wife will do housework too.)

My view is: you both work FT, you split childcare and housework down the middle (as far as poss). I'm the higher earner in our family (almost double), but why should that mean I don't have to pull my weight with the kids? Both of our jobs are important to us.

I would pass some of the larger jobs onto him - family meal planning and online shopping. He can liaise with the nanny about it. Make it his responsibility entirely. He forgets ingredients? He pops out to get them. He can't be bothered one night? He orders takeaway for the family. He needs to become the default for the job.

Also, start splitting dr's appointments / ill days / "parent has to go into school days" more equally. Say your work is getting antsy about it or something. It was perhaps fair enough for the first few months of his new job, but you don't want it becoming a habit.

OP can you outsource the cleaning at least to an agency? It doesn't solve the underlying problem of the inequity, but gives you some headspace. If you're both in FT .... though I can understand if you have a large mortgage and an expensive commute and a nanny there may be little left over. Or could the nanny at least take charge of cleaning and tidying the children's room(s)? I know the job is full on and some like Norland Nannies expect not to do it .... presumably you can both use Ocado? I'd just go for you and DH to go through a month of meals and place a regular order and as PPs suggest, divvy up preparation. Batch cooking?

Delegate with clear tasks. I gave home work to DH. He's no good with food and groceries. If your DH is educated, he must be able to be in charge of all things homework?

I asked mine to leave in October for just this issue. I'd tried talking to him, shouting at him, laying the law down, begging.... He just didn't want to do all that extra shit that is needed to make a household run. I can't say it is easier without him - all the shit still needs doing + the teeny tiny bit he used to contribute... BUT (and it is a bit but) I no longer have to consider what he wants or be annoyed about what he isn't doing. That feels like a huge weight off. He also has DD overnight on Friday and up until lunch on Saturday so for the first time in forever I get regular time off. Ok so it is mostly spent cleaning but it is time off! We can also eat what me and DD want, holiday where we want, do what we want and just generally suit ourselves!

I think you need to have a serious talk with him but be prepared for him not to change and for you to have to make a big decision. Put up or shut up!

Delegate with clear tasks

As long as you delegate you’re the boss with the mental load.

Responsibility for chores should be equally divided not simply the tasks themselves.

but I forgot what I like

This is one of the saddest things I’ve read on MN.

Your husband shouothink that he’s “helping” - it should be a partnership to look after the family you made together.

He sounds like a bit of a tosser, tbh.

@tatiana I don’t agree there. It’s about a clear separation of responsibilities. If you are in a job you have a job specification too. I found a group owning something means no one doing anything. (I’m aa manager at work). Similarly, at home DH knows he’s in charge of homework. It means he reads with them, make sure they finish them and then put the right books back into the bag on the right days. He makes sure they have £1 for xmas jumper day tomorrow. They have the nativity costumes etc.

On the other hand, I make sure they have dinner, packed lunch etc.

Without a clear line of responsibility then he will assume you are doing it unless you specifically ask him for one thing. It needs to be a project the person is in sole charge of.

If he is not willing to increase his load at home id suggest decreasing your working hours if you can afford to do so

What I mean is like at work, you either have someone who only does what he was told because they aren’t in charge of the big picture. Or you delegate th project which means he is then in charge of everything associated with it. Obviously this only works if the staff isn’t hopeless and equally that applies to the DH in question.

Delegate means giving responsibility to someone generally less senior than you.

If you really mean separate tasks then I’d agree with you.

What have you tried but failed to link at the end of your op?

If he is not willing to increase his load at home id suggest decreasing your working hours if you can afford to do so

What?!?

OP shouldn't have to adjust her working pattern because her OH is a lazy fucker happy to leave it all to her.

The salary is irrelevant - you need to delegate more!!

No, do not decrease your working hours as when you get fed up and ask him to leave, you will have less money to live on.

By the way, I do not have a solution as I am a single parent. At least I know the tasks fall to me. I don’t get EOW off though as DC do not go overnight to their dad - contact is minimal - so it is pretty much full on work and domestic stuff. But it is my work and domestic stuff and at least I do not have to negotiate being the household manager with a person who did not even do the tasks I asked of him.

You need to make him do more. But what the fuck does you earning more have to do with anything?? You both work full time. So you 'deserve' to do less because you earn more?

Yes, "earning more" is irrelevant here. In almost every relationship, 1 partner will earn more than the other.

It should be irrelevant, yes, but I'm still amazed by how often men a) decide that because their female partner earns less, she should do every other life task beyond working for a living, and b) manage even when their female partner earns the same or more than them, still to come up with a reason why it's better if she does the life tasks instead of him.

There are loads of threads on here where the 'DH' can't do the childcare because he earns more and therefore his job has to be protected at all costs.

I think the OP was just pre-empting that line of comment.

Absolutely do not decrease your working hours. I earn a lot less than DH. I don't travel like him BUT he still does his fair share because I won't accept any other way. Make him wholly responsible for something, personally I think food is a good place to start. Build on that.

My job pays very well and is a job which most women on Mn would be saying they need to stay home and take care of everything so their OH could focus on their career if roles were reversed. IMO it's this attitude which helps preserve the gender pay gap.

Sounds exactly like my life till a few months ago (except my DP earns more than me) but we both work full time jobs with 2 young kids and another on the way.

Being honest though...I think I was actually being a bit of a control freak when I think about it now. I’d moan that he didn’t do anything but then if he did tidy up/do the dishes...etc, I’d end up just doing it again myself as I felt it hadn’t been done properly (total OCD I know!) So, I’ve now stopped doing ABSOLUTELY everything and if I’m feeling stressed or snowed under I’ll just say to him “such and such needs done - can you do it” and he will without a fuss. He’s getting better at doing the chores and offering more help too. I feel less stressed and the arguments have stopped. I feel we appreciate each other more now too.

I think it sounds like you just need to give your partner more responsibility. Tell them there are things needing done and he needs to chip in. If he still doesn’t help when you’ve asked him to, then sorry but he’s a dick.

I would NOT decrease my working hours to pander to a lazy tosser who already thinks his job is more important than mine.

I have been in an even worse position than this (me full time, DH at home with kids mostly at school/nursery, and a cleaner), with me still spending evenings and weekends doing a lot of the household stuff. I changed it, but it took time. Basically, every couple of months I would explode/breakdown and there would be an improvement. Over around 18 months - 2 years, it got to a much fairer place.

While this was all going on, I found someone who would come for half a day every weekend and I used that time just for me (often gym). This was my lifesaver. It was ridiculous, but worth it.

Also, have you 'outsourced' everything you can/can afford to and simplified as much as possible (simple, weekly meal plans?)

Somehow, many of us seem to put ourselves in this position unfortunately. I, for one, never ever thought that I would be living like that. I am very strong, and very feminist. But also extremely capable, and this may be half the problem. My DH really didn't see the disparity. Now, he agrees that how it was for a long time was not OK, with hindsight. But I don't think he fully understands how much it hurt me (or how close I was to leaving).

I think one of the issues may be that when kids are small and both parents work, time is deeply scarce for both partners and the one not pulling their weight properly is still knackered. I think that, in that situation, sometimes its hard for one partner to fully realise that their time in front of the TV/ doing sport etc which they feel they really really need, is 'robbing' the other partner of their equivalent time. Also, when you are both tired, a dynamic sets in where you are both 'competing' for that scarce resource.

What I basically learned was that, in that context, arguments about the overall parity of work don't work. Change happens incrementally.

Pick the first battle (washing/food shopping etc.), sort it out and then move on to the next thing.

I hope it improves for you.