Estranged husband wants us to spend a happy Christmas together

[Jmlb2]

I have just moved back to the UK with my 13 year old son after 4 years in Canada. I thought my Canadian husband would hopefully follow me back ( we’ve been together 20 years, married for 12) - he never actually agreed to but I thought he would if I forced his hand. Instead he took the opportunity to tell me he’s been unhappy for years and he thinks we’d both be happier living apart. This was just over 2 months ago. I was in shock, denial, angry etc - still going through it. Am seeing a counsellor but emotions are all over the place. Our 18 year old daughter is living in Canada in our house with him. She finished school there this year and doesn’t want to come back and is now in university there. The kids seem to have taken it in their stride, as has my husband. He avoids all contact with me unless it’s a text about work - I do the bookkeeping for his business in Canada. In a moment of thinking/hoping we could be friends, as can’t actually believe this is happening, I texted him that I and our son would come to Canada for Christmas, thinking we’d all be in the house together but my friend, who works in the offfice there, has just told me he has asked her today if she woujf help him sort out paying bills and his bank accounts & financial things like that - all the stuff that I currently do & that I thought he wanted me to continue with, for now anyway. He also told her that I can stay in the house over Christmas as he will stay at his sisters. I feel so hurt and angry - it feels like he just wants to wash his hands of me totally after 20 years together. And now he expects us to have a happy Christmas for the kids without me having a go at him. Right now I hate him. How can I be civil at Christmas ?

OK, firstly I am very sorry you are going through this at the moment.

Although, I am more in the position of your husband (ex). I too have been married for 20 years (together for 23) and split from my ex 3 months ago.

I'm not the best at explaining myself, so please bear with me, but you & your husband are at very different stages emotionally. He tells you he has been unhappy for some time. So in reality, your marriage has been over for him for a while. This has given him time to get his head around things and be more in a position to move on with his own, separate, life. For you however, this is all new unexpected and painful. It will take you time to reach the position he is currently in.

In my case, I asked my ex to move out as I had known for more than 2 years that I no longer wanted a future with him. My ex, apparently, had no clue I was feeling this way. This does not put us on a level playing field emotionally.

Are you sure you want to return to Canada for Christmas? Is there any possibility of your DD coming to visit you instead?

If it was me, I wouldn’t be flying out all that way. Why? So your ex can see his son? If he wants to do that then he can make the effort to fly to the UK. He’s washed his hands of you and now you are going to go all that way for a man who thinks nothing of you. Don’t do it. What happens if you fly over and your 13 year old decides he wants to stay in Canada? I personally wouldn’t risk it. Get your feet firmly into life here. Start making traditions here. Have a break from him. Start rebuilding your life. Join clubs, start online dating, dump the bookkeeper job for him and get one for a company over here. How awful for you but you can come back from this but flying to Canada right now is just going to take you back to square 1.

Crikey, where to start with this.

Technically you left him as a defacto ultimatum to force him to move. Unless there is a pattern of ultimatums, bluffs and reconciliations in this relationship, it is over. I am not sure I wouldn’t support him in wanting to end things based on what you did, left him and took his child to another continent. Maybe there is a wider context but even so, that rift and distant is insurmountable. The move ended your marriage.

Sorry the rules of life are that when one person calls an end to a relationship you have to accept it. You don’t have to feel good or happy. But you have to respect a decision to end a relationship.

Focus on Christmas with your children as they are now your family. He has called an end to the marriage so there is no need for him to be around you. He doesn’t want to be friends and he doesn’t want to have Christmas with you. Don’t pursue it and let him have his space. Allow him to have time with his son. Whilst you connect with your daughter. There probably isn’t going to be an opportunity to civil or uncivil.

It’s horrid and maybe not what you wanted but it is how events played out. You had a hand in those events.

So you left your husband and moved to another country....
Sounds like you ended the relationship and he’s trying to move on

That was my husband’s original suggestion but I was back there in October for 3 weeks while husband came to the UK - he also has business here - and he stayed with our son. I had been so completely miserable since all this came out a couple of weeks after we moved back here in August and it felt good being back in Canada, seeing my daughter, no husband around to make me miserable there (we were not in good terms before son & I moved back although didn’t realise he was done with our marriage) I thought no, he’s not dictating what will happen at Christmas- we’ll go there - I want to abc my son is very keen to go back & see our dog & his sister & dad & dad’s family. Thought this will be good for all of us but with so little communication coming from him I have all this anger & animosity towards him. When I’m calm I think there’s hope. Then someone will say something & I realise there is none and now not sure I can be civil to him or want to be around his family with how humiliated I feel. Plane Tickets are booked !

I don’t feel I left him. When we went out there 4 years ago, I said then that I coukfht live there for the rest of my life but would 4 years so that my daughter could finish school there. He was agreeable I suppose st first - I don’t think he thought I’d go through with it- but after s few months when I wanted reassurance we would go back, he started saying he preferred it in Canada, which led to a whole bunch of arguments but I did think he’d come around in the end as we were together for 16 years here & he has lived and worked here for 25odd years

You left him. You moved to another country knowing he did not want to go with you. That’s a pretty major ‘I’m leaving you’ signal! If you BOTH want to reconcile, that means relocating to Canada. I suspect that he may not want to reconcile so you need to consider this possibility.

You don’t need to be around him or his family. He is moving out so as not to see you. Spend time with your daughter and let you son have time with his father. The trip should be for the sake of children. Maybe look into getting a lawyer there to work out your divorce, unless you intend to file in the UK or wherever you are living.

What does your son want in all this? I am a bit perplexed that you stayed in Canada when your daughter was 14 so as not to disrupt her education but moved your son at the age of 13 into a different education system. Sounds inconsistent. Did the authorities agree to the move & did his father?

So you left him, and now you think you can play happy families Judy just for Christmas?

Sorry but I agree with him. You decided to move and take his son away. You need to accept your marriage is over, and there won't be happy families anymore.

You might be able to stay civil, but spending Christmas together would be painful for both of you, and to be honest, completely contraproductive. You both need to move on from this broken marriage, and it sounds like he's doing the right thing

It really depends what your son wants. I'm finding it a bit weird that you moved your son away at 13, while you stayed for your daughter. This must be really really hard on your son. Would he have preferred to stay in Canada? Was he upset to leave his home, school, friends, social life and dog? I know I would be 😞 your poor son...

I think you have done certain actions that have certain consequences but in your mind you are couching them in a totally different way to the way other people are interpreting it. You left merely hoping he would follow. He didn't. You left. He has not ended the marriage, you have OP. Why did you not have any discussion about you returning to your home country? Just leaving in the hope that he would follow seems a random thing to do.

If you move a child at 13 they can start GCSEs and have plenty of time to prepare for the final exams, if you move a child later they can’t.

By moving him back to the UK at 13 OP is giving him the best chance to get good academic results in the UK. His sister would not have been entitled to domestic university fees in the UK as the family were not UK resident for the 3 years preceding university. The daughter would have qualified for the Canadian resident university fees.

Given you chose to end the relationship - moving to another continent is a pretty big message to send - I think that actually you need to stop thinking of yourself and put your chidren's needs first. What do they want to happen at Christmas? Because at the moment everything seems to be about you and your feelings.

I’m very sorry your marriage has ended and it must be very difficult for you at the moment. Your emotions and feelings will and are all over the place. I’ve tried to follow what you’ve said. It doesn’t make complete sense but I think I understand. So forgive me if I haven’t fully grasped the situation.

It would seem very early on you had decided to return to the UK and he had decided to stay in Canada. And it appears you hoped he might see it your way. That didn’t happen and presumably you gave an ultimatum, either he comes back with you and your son or the marriage is over? So you called his bluff?

It’s a pity really, it seems clear very early on that neither of you were prepared to change plans for the other. Perhaps some sort of compromise could have been reached, I don’t know. But I agree with the posters, you left him. And of course you took your son, which I hope that he knew in advance and that your son was happy with.

The marriage is over and you’ll have to rely on friends and family to support you during this difficult transition. I feel both of you share a responsibility for this situation however.

My chief concern is your son. What does he want? Is he happy to live in the UK with his mum? Would he prefer his life in Canada? I ask because if you don’t communicate with him and understand his desires it could cause some major issues down the road. Estrangement from offspring is sadly all too common these days. You don’t want him resenting you for choices made on his behalf. Best of luck.

To be honest you decided to leave unilaterally without discussion...as you say trying to force his hand. That was not a great move.

It's a kind of manipulative move from you...and perhaps he prefers Canada.

You really should have discussed things...but it sounds like he's done with the marriage.

I'd be asking him if he wants the split to be permanent.

My son wants to go back for Christmas and I am taking him there. He was happy enough to come back here although I did assume my husband & eventually my daughter would follow us. The reason I bought him back now is that he is still young enough to settle back into Uk education without any consequences to his GCSEs, and he has settled back - I managed to get him into the school that most of his old friends went on to.

It was very selfish of me. I was so homesick out there though. Husband came back to the UK every 3 weeks for 3 weeks, from the time we went out there, for work commitments. And because of all the rows about going back, even when he was in Canada he avoided me & spent most of his time golfing & going to the pub. Thought if I’m spending all this time on my own, we may as well be in the UK and we can see husband when he’s doing his 3 weeks there. I was working sometimes 7 days a week in Canada whereas I was/am always around for the kids after school and at weekends in the UK - I felt so strongly that I wanted to go back to the UK but couldn’t bare the thought of both of my kids being on the other side of the world to me for the rest of my days. There is a good chance my son, too will want to go out there when he’s old enough I know. It’s sll such a mess

Even with the initial discussion of returning after 4 years...the reality is different.

Did you not have any idea of how he was feeling? Did you think everything was fine in the marriage?

Any chance you would both be open to marriage counselling?

It sounds as if he has checked out of the marriage already. I don’t think counseling would help except to help accept the situation

I'm sorry it's like this for you. Him spending so much time golfing wasn't good.

It's seems like you didn't have much time together as a couple. It's like the connection between you got lost somewhere along the way.

It would appear your marriage is over - in reality probably has been for some time . As you've been married for 12 years but only in Canada for four it sounds very much as though his preference is to remain in Canada as is your daughters at present . I guess as you've returned to the UK , although with Brexit looming and stuff what a time to come back , you were never really on board with moving to Canada .
Counselling will hopefully help you plan your next steps and I would also see a solicitor and research division of assets /contact with children etc if you divorced and whether there are any important differences between the Canadian and UK systems . I would imagine there is some entwining of your work too to complicate things . As others have mentioned do ask and listen to your sons thoughts to - kids adjust to change well enough if it's handled well - it's infighting that ' kills them ' . He'll be hurting too . Good luck .

OP

I think you need to stop hankering after reunions and a family Christmas. He doesn’t want either. It seems pretty clear cut. He wants to end the marriage. You need to find out whether that’s through separation or divorce.

We were both aware we weren’t happy - all we’ve done is row since I realised he wasn’t up for going back. But I thought we would talk about it eventually & sort it out. Whereas he had decided in his mind we were done. He is not open to discussion- he has barely spoken to me since I left other than to say he’s been unhappy for years apparently

all we’ve done is row since I realised he wasn’t up for going back. But I thought we would talk about it eventually & sort it out.

By sort it out, do you mean you presumed he'd give in and move back?

It doesn't sound like you ever intended to stay given that you moved back "hoping" he'd follow. You were moving back with or without him and it sounds like that was the last straw for a strained and unhappy marriage.

Does DD intend to stay in Canada? Where would DS rather be? Would you still prefer to be in the U.K. if they both stay in Canada?

I do not understand your thread title, I keep checking I haven't misread it because the opposite is true.

I have also lived overseas, we moved back almost four years ago and I can't imagine a world in which we would not have discussed and agreed it or that I would just move back and hope he followed!

It was you that ended the marriage with that action. Although it sounds like it was not in a good state anyway. I think the trip is a good idea for you to see your daughter, but I would not be expecting to spend time with your husband. He is being quite sensible in moving out I think.

I feel for you as you were shocked by his response to your move. However by your own admisssion you had "forced his hand" and it has backfired. This is alwaya likely to happen when there is a power struggle and one person delivers an ultimatum.

As your daughter was staying in Canada he could rightly claim he was trying to be the parent for her. Would it really have worked for her to have both parents out of the country?
I think you were hoping you could get him to agree to the living arrangements that suited you, especially as you relocated for him however now he has decided he will end the marriage.
In terms of work in the business it's probadly sensible you stop doing stuff.

Do you have house here already? Can you work here?
The shock, grief and sadness will end but first you have to process emotions.

You could ask if he wants to try to reconcile but do you love him? Perhaps this is the time to move on...painful though it is.