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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gaslighting or am I the unreasonable one

44 replies

Azadewow · 26/11/2018 18:19

I could really do with some impartial opinions on this, as my ex keeps making me feel like I am unreasonable, yet I think I am just trying to act in the kids best interests.

First of all some backstory: relationship lasted 5 years with on and offs, 2 kids plus 36 weeks pregnant (he is the father of all 3). Within the five years we had horrible arguments, emotional and physical abuse on both sides, he left me pregnant with 2nd kid and found someone else, came back, cheated on me, left me pregnant with this baby and has a new girlfriend now. And yes I am Awre, we were very toxic and yeap it was contraception failure every time.

We officially broke up in June, he was in New relationship in July, though she was a coworker and I had seen flirty/banter msgs between them prior to breakup so, she may or may not have been the ow. She is 17 to his 35. Since he has been with her, he has shown little to no interest in baby that's due next month, and has spent little time with our kids, and mostly with my chasing him and pushing for contact.

The communication between me and him has gradually deteriorated to the point where we cannot even spend 5 mins without being at each others throats, and even when I try to be factual and amicable for the kids sake, anything I say is viewed as malicious or a declaration of war.

So current issue is: he wants his girlfriend present during contact time, and I know for.a fct that he has had her around the kids despite me saying I don't want her to be.

Current contact arrangements, as suggested by social services who have supported me quite a lot through all this: pick up the 18 month DS at 2.30 twice a week pick up DD at 3 from nursery and return them by 4 to my house, andonce a week pick up DS at 12.30 and DD at 1 and return by 4. He lost his job, pays no maintenance, lives at his mums out of town, so EOW or overnights are not possible. At beat he has 6hrs per week with the kids, although in reality it's more like 3 as with the weather too shitty to be outdoors and him too skint to go anywhere with the kiss, he just bring them back after nursery pick up and goes away.

On the other hand, he spends almost every say with his gf, l have bumped into him a lot in our small town having a coffee or something with her (I assume she pays). She sleeps over at his mums etc

Despite the fact that out of the 168hrs in a week that he spends literally doing nothing, he only sees the kids 3-6hrs a week, he still insists that he wants her present during contact time!

I have sent him a long email outlining my reasons why I don't want her present at the contact time. In short Too soon, based on age difference unlikely relationship to last and don't want a string of people coming in and out of their lives, the fact he has said she is an equal priority to him as the kids (so doubtful he would put kids needs first if it came down to it), barely sees kids as is and the kids are entitled to one on one time with him without her present, her general attitude of entitlement to having a relationship with the kids just cause she is seeing him, her neediness of his at tention when he is with the kids (he has said so himself as well as witnessing his phone going off dozens and dozens of time when he had contact at my house)

His response was he will only see them with her. Ihe has refused to address my points, and says my decision is one sided and I am stopping him from seeing the kids. How can it not be one sided if he refuses to provide his side?! The best answer I have gotten from him with regards to my reasons (and by best beat I mean the only answer that's relevant that doesn't accuse me of being a petty jealous bitch) is that he trusts her and he thinks she will be around for a long time. So basically trust his opinion because he says so.

Oh forgot to say, up until a week ago he was saying he is not in a relationship with her they are just seeing ech other and that he doesn't think it will last long cause she will find someone her own age a d leave him lol

Everytime I try to discuss it with him I am left feeling like I am crazy and unreasonable and feeling guilty that he is not going to see the kids. Yet when I try to to disregard what he says, and think logically without letting emotions rule, I feel like I am justified to put my foot down on this..

So what I am asking is, is he trying to gaslight me or am I unreasonable? BTW I haven't said to him she can never be around the kids, I have said not yet. And when I briefly dated someone else after the breakup, he went all mental about the guy being possibly round the kids and reported me twice to social services saying I am neglectful of the kids and that I don't have their beat interests at hert (SS investigated and ruled that his accusations were baseless and malicious)

For anyone that managed to ead all thy u deserve a cookie and some wine lol

OP posts:
RandomMess · 26/11/2018 18:25

Unfortunately unless a partner poses a risk to the DC you have no right to dictate who can or cannot be there.

It would be far better for the DC if you emotionally detach from his and his awful behaviour and get him to take the DC to his parents for a reasonable length of contact.

Be the better person and parent. Once you stop "fighting" him he may lose interest even more but that's his choice Thanks

If you were on the pill when you got pregnant please be aware for some people hormonal contraception just doesn't work for them!

Azadewow · 26/11/2018 18:36

Unfortunately he can't have them at his mums house. She has 15 cats, and a habit of not cleaning after them properly... Very unhygienic, with poo often lying outside of the 10 litter trays for days before being picked up... and as youngest is only 18 months and has the habit of trying to eat things of the floor...

OP posts:
Lozzerbmc · 26/11/2018 18:54

Hello could you agree to let him see them at your own house and you go to the shops or something? He sounds very immature

Azadewow · 26/11/2018 19:06

Unfortunately, due to him being violent towards me in the past as well as refusing to leave the flat in the past, have been adviced by the police that he shouldnt be in the house with me. I have suggested to him to be with the kids alone at my house, but he likes to act on extremes, so he has taken what police said to the extreme and won't even go through the front door for pick up and drop off...

OP posts:
RandomMess · 26/11/2018 19:19

Seriously you need to step away from him. Ask him to suggest what contact he would like on a regular "fixed" basis and let him have it gf there or not.

Long term I doubt he'll be involved do focus on you and the DC Thanks

Innocentconglomeration · 26/11/2018 19:22

Unfortunately you can't stop him having her there for contact.

Flowers
Azadewow · 26/11/2018 19:29

I know that during his time he can meet whoever he wants etc, but am I am being unreasonable to ask him to just have one on one time with the kids, considering how little time he spends with them? Back when he used to see the kids in my house, the gf would send 10/20 msgs an hour and he would end up sitting on his phone and ignoring the kids. That's what I want to avoid as it feels pointless for him to have them only to ignore them, and it's hurtful for the kids

OP posts:
Innocentconglomeration · 26/11/2018 19:42

You can ask. He doesn't have to agree. Sorry xx

RandomMess · 26/11/2018 19:42

Every time you mention it he will dig his heels in the prove a point, he's being a selfish pr*ck but step away from engaging in it, it's futile.

WhoKnewBeefStew · 26/11/2018 19:51

You can’t stop him introducing her to your dc I’m afraid. As much as you may want to, unless she poses a threat it’s out of your control

LilMy33 · 26/11/2018 20:02

Honestly? He’s a violent, jobless loser who’s in an inappropriate relationship with someone who’s not legally allowed to drink. In your shoes I’d dig my heels in and say no new girlfriend is not welcome to come to contact. In my experience going through court your expectations/requests are not unreasonable ones. If he won’t see his own children purely because he hasn’t got his own way let him get on with it. Sounds like they’re better off without him.

That said, if by some miracle this relationship lasts you can’t keep the children and his girlfriend apart forever. I doubt it will last though. Between the 3 young children under 5 and the cats at his place where she stays shitting everywhere I imagine she’ll see sense before long and dump the 35 year old creep.

Ariesgirl1988 · 26/11/2018 20:07

Whilst you are not being unreasonable to ask the GF not to be there, unless you can prove she is a risk to your children there's very little you can do to stop it. Second of all he sounds like a selfish manipulative bastard and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that he probably winds her up her when he tells her he's going to your house, she's 17 and he's 35 says it all really that he goes for a young girl who he can easily manipulate. Can you not have a friend or family member in your house overseeing contact whilst you make yourself scarce for a couple of hours so he can see them? failing that I would stop chasing him to see the children and get on with your life stop entering into arguments with him because you will never stop being the bad guy in his eyes so if he doesn't bother that's for him to explain to the kids all you can do is make sure they know they at least have you and believe me he will know it when they're older and start asking questions kids pick up on everything and will question it once they're old enough and lying and being manipulative will only show them he's a waste of space and hopefully they won't want to bother with him sounds like you're all better off without him in your lives.

LilMy33 · 26/11/2018 20:13

Don’t have contact at your house! Ever! Like you said anyway, the police advised against it. And it’s your home, your safe space and he shouldn’t be able to use it as his base just because his own home is in a disgusting mess. He’s treated you horribly, time to put a stop to it. Stay reasonable, don’t let him bait you into an argument and avoid the subject of his teenage girlfriend completely. He needs to find somewhere safe (and clean) and appropriate to bring his children for contact that isn’t your home and isn’t his mother’s. That’s really not asking much.

Snowwontbelong · 26/11/2018 20:19

He is in a new relationship. Add dc to the mix in the circumstances you describe and she won't hang around I suspect.

Azadewow · 26/11/2018 22:06

He can be quite the charmer when he wants to so highly unlikely she will see sense until he decides he is done. I was definitely living in fog while with him and despite normally being quite the intelligent person I would keep forgiving and swallowing his excuses for shitty behaviour, feeling bad that I would accuse him of things... I even provided her with proof that he was still sleeping with me at the beginning of their relationship and up to the point when I stopped him coming to my house he would still try to kiss/grope /insinuate things. He convinced her that the proof I gave her was all fabricated by me and she believed him Hmm
He somehow always manages to turn and twist everything I do and say to make me look like the bad guy. I have spoken to her, and she has said things like she loves my kids (to the best of my knowledge she has been with them on a handful of occasions), and that she should be in the kids lives, because she is an important part of ExP life, and it's unfair to keep her out of their lives Confused this is after 4 months of a relationship. I find that very weird and creepy and concerns me that if ExP were to break up with her (which I am sure sooner or later he will, he uses and discard people quite often) , she might turn psycho towards the kids. I have no evidence to support this, and maybe I am just imagining things, but yet another reason I am just not feeling comfortable with her being around them. Based on some things ex has said and various quotes she posted on her timeline, she just seems emotionally unstable, and at 17 i think a lot of people are lol

I have tried to explain to him that I just think the kids should have 1 to 1 time with him when he barely sees them without a third party, and he claims he gives them undivided attention even if she would be there. So I asked him does she just sit there and you ignore her existence? If no, then that's not really giving undivided attention, and if yes, then what's the fucking point of her being there if she is just an extension of the furniture? Haven't received a reply to that...,but apparently I am being petty, jealous and unfair to his girlfriend by excluding her from our kids life...

I am giving birth at the end of December, and I have tried discussing with him, that we should try to make "fixed" arrangements, that can remain relatively unchanged when baby is here, so that the kids can keep a sense of routine and stability. And there is no way in hell I will be letting him and gf go off with the Newborn for contact time, particularly since like previous two I will be exclusively breastfeeding on demand. But once again he says I am unreasonable and we ca. Discuss it after I have given birth Hmm

OP posts:
Azadewow · 27/11/2018 15:43

Based on what some of you said I tried to compromise, and we almost agreed on one day of contact where gf can be involved, as long as one day is guaranteed to be just him and the kids. And I say almost, cause then he wanted something else and something else, until he got to a point were I had to say no, but he wouldn't let it go. I asked him if he was willing to let the entire agreement fall apart based on that thing, and he said yes. At that point I realised that, the goalposts will keep changing and no matter what I agree to he will always want something else, simply because he doesn't want to spend time with the kids, but he also doesn't want to be the bad guy to the world. He wants to be able to say I would see the kids but ex won't let me. He told me: when the kids are older tell them daddy couldn't see them because of mummy..

I just hang up on him, as the entire thing was futile

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/11/2018 19:29

Yep not surprised!

CottonTailRabbit · 27/11/2018 19:36

It is bad for children to be forced to be spend time with an adult who they would expect to love them but who doesn't. Stop trying to force them to have a relationship with him. He doesn't want it and it would harm them.

So what if he whines that his crazy ex won't let him see his kids? Suck it up. Children aren't stupid. When they grow up they will know who looked after them. They'll know you are not crazy. As for other people, so what if they are daft enough to believe him. There are bigger issues to care about.

Azadewow · 27/11/2018 19:45

Yes, I know its not great for them to be forced to spend time with someone who doesn't care, though I wanna think that under all that twat he actually loves and cares about them. Then again I do not tend to see the best in people...

It's a small town we live in and gossip spreads like fire. I know i shouldn't let it bother me, but it hurts when people belive his lies about me, cause although not perfect, I try to be the best mum I can for the kids. Thus despite my feelings about situation, I ve kept giving chances.

Though kinda feels like the nail in the coffin, the letter from csa today saying I am entitled to 7£ a week... I send more than that on nappies ffs

What hurt the most was, that during the phone convo he referred to unborn baby as that fucking thing...as in, keep that fucking thing when it's born and give me care of the older kids, since they will be miserable when that fucking thing is born as you will ignore them altogether

OP posts:
LilMy33 · 27/11/2018 20:51

I know the gossip hurts but you’re going to have to develop a thicker skin and learn to ignore it all. The opinions of those who have nothing better to do than chat shit don’t matter. And let’s face it, your ex is 35 and dating a 17 year old. I bet that’s raising more eyebrows than you refusing to put up with his shit.

CottonTailRabbit · 28/11/2018 21:04

People will judge him way way more harshly than you.

Even if everyone would believe every single lie from his lying mouth, would you really expose your children to the emotional damage from him to avoid people talking about you behind your back? Really? Do you really care more about appearances than about your children's feelings?

Azadewow · 29/11/2018 18:58

CottonTailRabbit No of course not, what matters the most to me is the kids well being. But when he keeps saying I am unreasonable and I am keeping the kids away from him out of spite etc... Sometimes I just feel like he is right and I am wrong? Then I get no contact from him, and I go back to feeling my stand towards him is correct. That's why I asked am I being unreasonable or is he gaslighting me. I honestly feel like I am going crazy some days. Some days I feel like I am too harsh, other days not harsh enough...

Oh the joys of pregnancy and hormones Blush

OP posts:
BeenThereDone · 29/11/2018 19:40

He know exactly what he's doing. What about a contact centre. Stand up for your self and your children. No means no, if he cannot provide adequate surroundings for contact time then he doesn't get it unless it's a contact centre. He knows ur vulnerable and hormonal... And quite willing to use it and the new gf against you, to bully and gaslight. Stay strong

bastardkitty · 29/11/2018 19:45

I would feel exactly the same as you and it really is pathetic of him to insist his girlfriend is there for the tiny amount of contact he has with them. I don't think you can insist though. Do you think they might be safer with the gf there? If you do have concerns about their safety then stop contact and let him take you to court, assuming there's no contact order.

BobLemon · 29/11/2018 19:48

Yabu to misuse “gaslighting”. Stop it.

YANBU to ask that the gf doesn’t come

YABU to go on endlessly about it when he declines your request

The best thing you’ve mentioned is suggesting “fixed” contact times so the DCs have a routine.