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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gaslighting or am I the unreasonable one

44 replies

Azadewow · 26/11/2018 18:19

I could really do with some impartial opinions on this, as my ex keeps making me feel like I am unreasonable, yet I think I am just trying to act in the kids best interests.

First of all some backstory: relationship lasted 5 years with on and offs, 2 kids plus 36 weeks pregnant (he is the father of all 3). Within the five years we had horrible arguments, emotional and physical abuse on both sides, he left me pregnant with 2nd kid and found someone else, came back, cheated on me, left me pregnant with this baby and has a new girlfriend now. And yes I am Awre, we were very toxic and yeap it was contraception failure every time.

We officially broke up in June, he was in New relationship in July, though she was a coworker and I had seen flirty/banter msgs between them prior to breakup so, she may or may not have been the ow. She is 17 to his 35. Since he has been with her, he has shown little to no interest in baby that's due next month, and has spent little time with our kids, and mostly with my chasing him and pushing for contact.

The communication between me and him has gradually deteriorated to the point where we cannot even spend 5 mins without being at each others throats, and even when I try to be factual and amicable for the kids sake, anything I say is viewed as malicious or a declaration of war.

So current issue is: he wants his girlfriend present during contact time, and I know for.a fct that he has had her around the kids despite me saying I don't want her to be.

Current contact arrangements, as suggested by social services who have supported me quite a lot through all this: pick up the 18 month DS at 2.30 twice a week pick up DD at 3 from nursery and return them by 4 to my house, andonce a week pick up DS at 12.30 and DD at 1 and return by 4. He lost his job, pays no maintenance, lives at his mums out of town, so EOW or overnights are not possible. At beat he has 6hrs per week with the kids, although in reality it's more like 3 as with the weather too shitty to be outdoors and him too skint to go anywhere with the kiss, he just bring them back after nursery pick up and goes away.

On the other hand, he spends almost every say with his gf, l have bumped into him a lot in our small town having a coffee or something with her (I assume she pays). She sleeps over at his mums etc

Despite the fact that out of the 168hrs in a week that he spends literally doing nothing, he only sees the kids 3-6hrs a week, he still insists that he wants her present during contact time!

I have sent him a long email outlining my reasons why I don't want her present at the contact time. In short Too soon, based on age difference unlikely relationship to last and don't want a string of people coming in and out of their lives, the fact he has said she is an equal priority to him as the kids (so doubtful he would put kids needs first if it came down to it), barely sees kids as is and the kids are entitled to one on one time with him without her present, her general attitude of entitlement to having a relationship with the kids just cause she is seeing him, her neediness of his at tention when he is with the kids (he has said so himself as well as witnessing his phone going off dozens and dozens of time when he had contact at my house)

His response was he will only see them with her. Ihe has refused to address my points, and says my decision is one sided and I am stopping him from seeing the kids. How can it not be one sided if he refuses to provide his side?! The best answer I have gotten from him with regards to my reasons (and by best beat I mean the only answer that's relevant that doesn't accuse me of being a petty jealous bitch) is that he trusts her and he thinks she will be around for a long time. So basically trust his opinion because he says so.

Oh forgot to say, up until a week ago he was saying he is not in a relationship with her they are just seeing ech other and that he doesn't think it will last long cause she will find someone her own age a d leave him lol

Everytime I try to discuss it with him I am left feeling like I am crazy and unreasonable and feeling guilty that he is not going to see the kids. Yet when I try to to disregard what he says, and think logically without letting emotions rule, I feel like I am justified to put my foot down on this..

So what I am asking is, is he trying to gaslight me or am I unreasonable? BTW I haven't said to him she can never be around the kids, I have said not yet. And when I briefly dated someone else after the breakup, he went all mental about the guy being possibly round the kids and reported me twice to social services saying I am neglectful of the kids and that I don't have their beat interests at hert (SS investigated and ruled that his accusations were baseless and malicious)

For anyone that managed to ead all thy u deserve a cookie and some wine lol

OP posts:
Azadewow · 29/11/2018 21:08

BobLemon how am I misusing the word gaslighting?

Definition of the word gaslighting : to
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.

I did try to compromise with him on the gf issue. He would have one contact day where he can choose to bring her with him and the other contact without her, so as the kids get quality time.

He was happy with that. But then, when we got close to agreeing all the details, he started asking for more and more, like an overnight at his mums, then he wanted his gf present during the evening but not stay over, then he wanted her to stay over... Basically he kept pushing the limits to get me to say no, at which point he turned around saying if I can't have the thing u say no to then the whole arrangement falls apart. And yet he still maintains I am the one stopping him from contact...

So I keep gravitating between feeling the sensible thing is to have boundaries and not to give into every thing he asks for if I think it's not to the kids benefit, and feeling guilty that by not doing what he wants I am indeed stopping him. I kee going back and forth about the motives behind my decisions to see if he is right and I am just the vengeful crazy ex, or whether I am reading the situation correctly and he is the deadbeat dad who uses the ex as an excuse to not see the kids...

OP posts:
ACatsNoHelpWithThat · 29/11/2018 21:27

Tbh I'd agree he's not really gaslighting, he's just being an arsehole. Gaslighting would be if he did something like agree a Wednesday contact with you then point blank insist later that you'd agreed on the Thursday and don't you remember? Doing it with the deliberate intention to make you doubt what you said (not the same as covering up his own forgetfulness for instance). What he's doing is pushing you so far you're thinking hang on, no one's this much of a CF, maybe I'm being unreasonable? But he's not doing it to make you doubt your sanity, he's just trying his luck. If you stop biting do you think he'll lose interest?

Motoko · 29/11/2018 21:51

Do what a pp said, tell him he can have contact at a contact centre, or not at all.

If anyone asks you about not letting him see his kids, tell them why.

category12 · 29/11/2018 21:57

He's an arsehole.

What I'm not understanding is your determination to push for contact. I'm not seeing why you think it's in the dc's best interests. He's an utter waste of skin who isn't interested in his dc. Is he a good, involved, caring father? It doesn't sound like it in the least. A shitty father is better as a Disney dad or absence. It just feels like you're locked into this turbulent toxic relationship with him and the dc are pawns in it. I don't see how it's in their best interests to be used for point-scoring by a disinterested father and your fucked-up relationship.

I'd give him the opportunity to step up for his dc and not put obstacles in his way, but I certainly wouldn't be chasing him for it.

Azadewow · 29/11/2018 22:10

ACatsNoHelpWithThat thank you for explaining it like that, I do see now what u mean. Oh he has definitely done that in the past, but you are right he is not doing it like that right now, though I am sure if he knew that he makes me doubt my sanity it would be an added bonus for him

At the moment, the gf or contact seems to not be an issue at all, as he has refused any sort of contact I have suggested while at the same time saying I am stopping him from seeing the kids Hmm it's all very sad really, but I can't force him to be a decent father, and I need to accept that and stop trying to push him to make the kiss a priority. and if this is how he wants to be, then it's for the best he removes himself out of their lives now that the kids are too young (18m and 3yrs)to understand that their dad cares more about his new gf than about them.

OP posts:
Azadewow · 29/11/2018 22:21

category12 it's probably because I was raised by a single mum, and father lived in a different country. I didn't see /have contact with him at all between the ages of 3 and about 10.growing up I was upset my friends had their mum and dad and I only had my mum, and for some years a very cold stepfather. Later on I started having some contact with him till I decided he was a waste of space when I was 15 and didn't speak to him again till I had my own children. He is still an entitled ass, but being older he seems to have realised to some extend what an ass he was and has tried to make amends. Too late for me nd him to have a proper father daughter relationship, but he is OK with his grandkids although we are still in different countries.

I guess I just want better for my kids, but at this point I just need to accept it is what it is and focus on minimizing the emotional damage he will inevitably cause by coming and going out of their lives (cause I am convinced in the following years he will try to pop in and out of their lives)

OP posts:
Azadewow · 03/12/2018 18:18

So an update. After 5 days of silence and last time saying he ain't fussed about seeing the kids,he now has demanded to see the kids on Christmas eve

I asked him in October and November to make arrangements for Christmas as I wanted to make plans. He refused to respond so I have plans with the kids. I told him no on Christmas eve as in the culture I am from Christmas eve is the major day of the holidays, and not Christmas day. I offered him to see the kids on Christmas day at my flat (my mum is coming before Christmas and staying for a while so I feel safer to offer him to come round). He said he doesn't want to put our differences aside for kids sake and has refused the offer.

Should i just leave it at that?

OP posts:
category12 · 03/12/2018 18:52

Yes, I would leave it at that.

He knows perfectly well Christmas Eve is the more important date to you, so he's picked that deliberately to hurt you - if you let him have it, he "wins", if you don't, he claims you're unreasonable and he "wins". He's completely disinterested in what's good for the dc, it's all about point-scoring. Fuck him.

RandomMess · 03/12/2018 19:25

What a w*nker, I hope that you have it all in writing that you have made these offers and he's refused to engage.

You are well rid!

Azadewow · 03/12/2018 19:42

RandomMess yes, all communication is now by email, and I have made a dedicated email address for this purpose so I have all communication in one place.

I explained to him all the reasons, why there is nothing else I can offer (already have plans, his mums place is unsuitable for kids to go, I am giving birth day after boxing day so wanna spend as much time with kids as possible before baby comes, my mum is coming from abroad for Christmas which is rare so why should the kids miss out on time with their nan that they see 2-3 times a year, kids will want to stay at home and play with new toys)

Despite all that, I got a response on how unfair it all is and I am unreasonable (you guessed correctly category12)

Told him my offer stands and it's his choice whether to take it or not. Surely any decent parent would put grudges against ex aside in order for kids to have a good Christmas?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 03/12/2018 20:33

He's not decent though is he.

Next time do less "explaining" offer him something reasonable and remain grey rock.

Azadewow · 03/12/2018 20:46

Nope he isn't that's for sure

I know I don't need all that explaining, just feel compelled to so I don't come out as unreasonable...

Pointless I know, as no matter as I say or do, is all unfair, unreasonable and I am stopping him from seeing the kids Hmm

OP posts:
Azadewow · 11/12/2018 23:12

Feeling so sad tonight, he hasn't seen the kids in 2 weeks, hasn't asked about them in a week I know that pales to some other people experience, but it's the longest so far (with the exception of when I have taken them for holidays to my family but doesn't really count as they video called). They are 2 amazing kids, I can't imagine going a day without missing them, makes me so sad he can't be bothered Sad

OP posts:
category12 · 11/12/2018 23:35

His loss, OP. Flowers

Azadewow · 24/12/2018 20:26

Been having a few very down days. My mum has come fir Christmas and help with baby (3 more days till CS). The other day she took kids out and they bumped into ex. He completely ignored the kids, didn't say a word to them.... Thankfully kids didn't even notice him as they are so happy nana is here, but my heart breaks for them... I don't understand how anyone can be so cruel to ignore his kids on the street, to not bother seeing them etc... He keeps saying I am stopping him from seeing the kids... I haven't, yet even if I had if roles were reversed I can't imagine not fighting till I was dead to see my kids...

Then I realise in 9 months of pregnancy not once did he ask how me or the baby are. How can anyone be so cruel? OK, fuck me he probably never really loved me, but how can he just abandon our kids?

Can't believe it's been 6 months since we broke up, and yet I am back to feeling so sad and upset about it all... Handhold anyone?

OP posts:
ems137 · 24/12/2018 22:00

I know it's so so hard to admit that he's just not interested in the most important people in your life. But I would stop thinking of him altogether and expect absolutely nothing from him.

I'm sorry he's a wanker x

Azadewow · 28/12/2018 11:03

Dunno if anyone is reading, but gave birth to a beautiful lil girl yesterday

OP posts:
Needsmorebeans · 28/12/2018 11:21

Congratulations Azade! I hope you are recovering well and you have people in RL supporting you

Heartbrokengirl14 · 28/12/2018 12:46

Congratulations ❤️❤️

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