I am a narcissist and I use my daughter as a scapegoat

[Forgandoony]

I have 2 DDs who I love very much. On the outside we are the perfect family, my girls want for nothing, do well at school etc. However, I inadvertently treat them both very differently. My older girl is the scapegoat and the younger is the golden child. I try so hard not to do it but when it comes to DD1 it’s like a wall comes down and I can’t help myself but take my anger/ frustration/ whatever out on her. I’ve had years of counselling and EMDR, nothing has helped. As a child, I was the scapegoat and still am to my own parents, not that that is an excuse. Any suggestions where I can go for help/ what to do next? I’m sick of this and I worry about the effects of my behaviour.

3Changing
Yes, I totally agree with this. You can ask your dd to call you out on your behaviour. Maybe agree on a visible sign that she can show you (eg a big stop sign) if you get to a point where you’ve lost the plot.

Ladiva1971
Im sorry about your ds. That sounds really tough on you. My dd knows about my past. I talk about how my decisions are sometimes coloured this. Eg My desire for dd to go to private secondary as my schooling was diabolical to the shame of my narcissitic parents, who could have afforded better. Dd has chosen a local outstanding secondary btw so I’m not living vicariously through her.

How old are your DDs?

As for why you haven’t changed. There’s something inside you, which you are protecting perhaps it’s because you’re too scared or ashamed. Either the counsellors / therapists haven’t been able to find what it is or you’ve refused to go there. Therapy is incredibly painful to actually open up fully. I am very sensitive and can actually physically feel my heart opening - well not exactly my physical heart, but my body. Making myself completely vulnerable. If you’ve not got to the bottom of your issue it’s because emotionally you haven’t been to the place you most need to go.

I am the scapegoat.

Leave.

The damage you will do will be with her all her life.

I m still suffering.

Innocent
That won t solve anything.

It’s the best thing for the children, in my opinion. Live with the other parent and see the op occasionally, supervised if possible. Assuming there is another parent who is not narcissistic.

I am the scapegoat.

I don't think you're a narc. I think you have Fleas.
outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/fleas

Speak to DD1. It sounds like she's owed a conversation from you and it may nip any issues she has from being a scapegoat.

She'll give you a perspective that you can't get in any books or counselling and has the potential to give you the proverbially slap or wake up call and bring you closer.

Explain that it's about your issues and not to do with her that if she catches you doing it, she has the right to give you a ticking off.

Talk to your DD1

I agree there's absolutely no way you're a narc. You'd never have spent a penny on therapy because it could never be you with the problem.

Fleas sounds about right.

Not sure if I've missed how old your kids are but it would be worth age appropriately having a discussion and bringing it into the open. One of the worst things about a narc mother is believing it's always your fault. A discussion where you say "It's me" would be very beneficial. And being open to whatever response comes. And ask her opinion on what she thinks you need to help you change - and dont dismiss it. And the idea about her calling you out is a good one. It'll be hard initially and you're going to need to be prepared today I'm sorry, but it could really empower her and rebalance things in the long run.

Obviously it doesn't give her carte blanche to do whatever she likes - it's not about her never getting into trouble if she does something wrong.

And maybe be open to going to therapy together if this doesn't work.

You're going to need to be dedicated to this though, or it won't work.

To be very blunt - if you actually want to change then you would. All the therapy in the world will not help until you actually WANT to change and it sounds like you do not want to as your first post was about you and not the devastating effect you are having on your daughter.

In fact talk to both DD's

Explain the relationship you had with your DM and that you've noticed some similarities, with the way you parent them. To which you'd be mortified. Invite their input. Your Dd2 may notice it more than DD1. DD1 may except it as the status quo and not notice.

You know when we try not to think about something, we inadvertently think about it more. Could you have been desperate to not parent like your mum and inadvertently parenting like her.

The first child is the one we break our teeth on. The second child things tend to be more relaxed because we've had a run through of lots of scenarios.

Could it be your mum whose the narcissist.

You're not a narcissist. You're way off the diagnostic criteria. Possibly a borderline, having a good enough day to recognise that some of your behaviour is wrong. But then using maladaptive behaviours to make yourself the victim of that (ooh, it's all so hard. I so want to be good. Poor me).

Or you're just pathologising shitty behaviour.

Either way, it's ultimately simple. You know you're doing it. You know it's wrong. If you truly wanted to change, you would have. But it's more fun for you to present yourself as the victim of a universe, struggling heroically to overturn what the universe makes you do. I call bullshit.

What you're doing will damage your child. Stop, now. Quit the pretence that this is all somehow out of your control, and take responsibility for yourself, and the choices you are making to behave abusively. And actually change. Or do that kid a favour, and back away & let her dad be the parent she needs.

Wow, just wow! This is my major bug bear with MN, complex diagnosticies are spat out with such regularity that everyone thinks they are bloddy qualified. If stopping a particular behaviour, particularly a deeply ingrained one, was as easy as the replies to the Op’s post for help suggest, then relationship board would be very light in traffic.

OP, I can’t give any professional advice because I’m not qualified but it’s very important that your girls know that there are aspects of your behaviour and your treatment of them that has very deep roots and has absolutely nothing to do with them. Is there another parent or trusted family member on the scene? Bringing it out in the open and letting your girls have access to support could temper the affects of your behaviour and make it harder for you if you knew that this behaviour was not hidden.

The magic fix may never come but you can employ strategies that make it more difficult to behave the way you do. Don’t let shame get in the way of making positive changes. Good luck.

So much misinformation about narcissism here. People acting narcissistically can do and do attend therapy, can and do see their behaviours are damaging, can and do change.

OP - do you know your behaviour is damaging in the moment or is it only after you’ve calmed down?

OP, when talking to DD1 can you pretend in your head that you are talking to DD2? Then see what you say and see how it changes?

OK thanks everyone for your replies. I know what I’m doing is wrong but like I say, it’s like a wall comes down and I fill with anger/ fear/ stress and just can’t cope. This is not deliberate and not as easy as just stepping up and getting over myself. If it was, believe me I would have done it by now. I will look into some of the suggestions here.

How did your previous counselling end? Did you address that you felt you couldn’t stop yourself when this wall comes down? Do you know what sort of counselling it was?

How old is your older child?

I would go in the other direction with this. You've tried introspection and lots of therapy. I'd just go with behavioural avoidance- in other words, literally just not engaging in the bad behaviour, by walking away, leaving the room and so on.

If you can't change the way you feel, change the way you behave. That way you are minimizing the damage.

If you get too het up to do this, do something like relaxation or meditation techniques, free online, which will help you calm your nervous system down and allow you to make better choices.

I agree with the poster who said, unfortunately, you are making this more dramatic than it need be. Everyone gets stressed and can lash out- the trick is to see that as a warning sign about your own stress/anger and simply stop doing it.

No-one HAS to abuse (even at a very low level) someone else, do they? This is similar.

Just concentrate on making yourself behave differently, so I walk away/remove myself when I'm getting too overinvolved and cross with one child who really pushes my buttons- I can't stop myself getting cross but I can remove myself to counter the worst. Get your children to help you by pointing out you need to go into another room and calm down! They are often very good at knowing when you need to walk away- mine tell me if I am being a bit silly/over-reacting.

Why dont u take you DD1 out just u and her have some bonding time, do something like take her shopping out for dinner something that u both enjoy.only you can fix the problem ,you dont want her to end up needing help ,maybe sit and talk to her tell her your sorry & your trying to sort it.i dont know what else to say or what other advice to give xx

It's good to hear back from you OP.

Did you say sorry to your dd1? That would be a good place to start, not to explain why as that can come across as putting your stuff on her and she just needs an apology all for her iyswim?

You can then say you are taking steps to change things for the better for her, the rest is your own to manage.

As to how you manage that, is very hard to know from a thread here, and not knowing what you've tried already and no need to list all that.

Have you seen the stately homers on here? It will make useful reading to see how, like yourself, other survivors have suffered.

Also, the charity for adults abused as children?

I can't think of the name, maybe napac? Try a search as I think one can do years of counselling pointlessly, and one year be transformational with another.

There is dialectic BT as opposed to CBT.

Certainly charities in the know will be able to give recommendations, as this is their area.

The main thing is to keep talking, processing and facing the issues until they are done.

You have probably asked why, but really look at what you think your DD represents to you, and what you think of you. In your minds eye, how you see yourself veiwed as you were as a child what feelings come up and whether your DD is triggering those things?
Just to point out (due to nasty pp) this is not that your DD intends or is aware of this, its your reaction, nothing she's actively trying to do. Just what is it, like, do you resent her wants, or needs?

Good luck with your decisions, brave to post and hope you find a way through this, you all deserve to be happy

You don't sound like a narc, you sound like my father. He is abusive, pure and simple.

Good strategy to put in place in the meantime from pp, to monitor your feelings and remove yourself, everyone needs to do that from time to time; also great to change the dynamic a bit by getting out and doing something good for her.

Anyfucker - is he trying to sort himself out?
Has he realised he has an issue and gone into yeara of therapy to sort himself out?

Oops...@anyfucker