Emotional abuse - how much is them and how much is me?

[falaff]

Hi,
I've just come out of a relationship where EA was involved, more so at the beginning than the end, and I am trying to learn from it so that I don't go through the same.

People have told me that I may attract these types as I am sensitive and emotional and tend to be a people pleaser. I tend to think of others before myself and love making others happy, particularly a partner.

Bother my past partners were and using to some degree, but had both had a relationship of 8+ years before me. They told me they had a different dynamic with their other partners and I tend to think that they weren't abusive to them. For example, my previous ex took great care of his previews partner whereas with me he wouldn't keep the house warm and also withheld affection. He accepted her inability to have regular sex whereas wit me he was forceful and didn't accept that I didn't want regular sex due to mental health. My 'current' ex was fine with his ex seeing other men as friends, even letting her go on holiday with them, whereas with me any male friends were an issue for him.

I guess I am asking is it that I have caused them to be abusive because I've not been assertive enough? I am afraid that any future relationship will turn out the same way. I don't get it - both exes have said they loved my sensitivity and caring nature but then complained that I was too sensitive.

I know I need to work on myself to be more asservice. But I am who I am and I don't want to become cold and stubborn.

Have I turned these men 'bad'? Why we're they like this with me but not so with previous partners?

Sorry that first sentence in the 3rd para was supposed to say both partners were abusive to some degree

Oh god and were not we're. Crap phone.

People treat you the way you “let” them treat you: if somebody treats you badly once and realises that you don’t react as negatively as you should, or immediately forgive them, they’ll keep doing it. That’s not you causing them to be abusive. They are just people who will abuse a situation if they believe they can get away with it.

What you need is to work on your boundaries, your emotional literacy, the root cause of why you are so eager to forgive partners when they are unkind to you, and why you feel a bad relationship which makes you unhappy is better than no relationship. Have you had any kind of talking therapy in the past?

It's not your fault, and is never anyone's fault, that your partners have been abusive. That's on them. However, your task now is to work on your self esteem so that you can be assertive enough to spot this and resist it in future. Have you signed up for the Freedom Programme? Lots of people recommend it. Anne Dickson's book A Woman In Your Own Right is also good.

It's not 'cold and stubborn' to have standards and expectations about how you're treated. Try asking yourself 'why do I feel I have to fit in with the way they want things, not them fit in with mine?'

Thanks. I tried sticking up for myself and it would get better for a bit but would inevitably revert to 'normal'. I would try brushing it off and not rising to it but that didnt help either. My current ex was massively insecure and I was just tying to help him. Is it because I let these things happen in the beginning?

I often attracted EA types in the past. I've had a lovely partner for the last 5 years now tho.

I don't think it's possible to pinpoint what attracts EA types. I'm in no way a passive or especially gullible woman but I still attracted them.

I've a good friend who always did too but our characters are entirely different.

These men can reel you in - after all the devil doesn't show his horns until he's "got" you, so to speak.

What I do know is - & I had to admit to myself I was doing this - there are ALWAYS red flags as a pre-warning of any form of abuse. Something that makes you wary, that pushes your boundaries, makes you feel sad or uncomfortable.

Many of us as women write off the 'little things'.. oh it's not so bad..oh it's ok he's apologised..I really like him so will overlook as it'll likely be a one off..he didn't mean it that way.

Then all of a sudden little microaggressions become bigger, regularl, yet we're still hanging in there due to love, and time investments ie we've put the years in and don't want to give all that up.

We don't get out when we should, and we can't admit it.

After a disastrous relationship I took time out that ended up being almost 3 years. Took up my hobbies again, went on holidays, gym, reconnected with friends.

I discovered when people say you're happier once you take care of and do the work on yourself - it's true. You have to face your own home truths.

My DP is the opposite of any man I've met before and I think I was in the right state of mind to eventually meet him. We are happy - but I'd still have been happy if he hadn't come along when he did, as I was ok with myself.

I didn't waste time wondering what some EA bastard thought about me but I did work on myself, and that turned out ok.

It's them, all them. Think of bullies, because that's really what abusers are. Bullies don't pick on everyone. They go for soft targets, bully those they perceive to be unable to defend themselves and leave the stronger ones alone. Does that make the victims of bullies at fault for not being strong enough to stand up for themselves? Of course not, and you're not to blame either.

I just posted about emotional abuse and having come through it for the most part.

You sound like I did after my break up with an abusive man. What I realised was even if I did behave in a way that meant they treated me badly, that doesn’t make their treatment ok. The fact they have the capability to behave like that is enough to not want someone like that in your life.

As for how they treated other people? How do you know that was the case? How things look on the outside is often very different to that behind closed doors. I’d bet he was not so nice to them either in all sorts of ways, after all, the relationships with these women ended.

I would suggest you put a lot of time in caring for yourself. I’m not in the camp of ‘don’t date until you’ve worked on yourself.’ I think go and date as soon as you feel ready. But always look after yourself first and show new men that it how you operate. This is something I never used to do - I always put a partner’s happiness before my own. If anything, a partners happiness should be equal to your own (most of the time) - and only when you know them well enough for that to be the case. I would drop everything if I was interested in someone in the past. Not anymore.

Hope you are feeling ok after everything.

Have you verified the way they treated their exes with the ex themselves?

I could tell you I took my partner away 4 times a year for romantic getaways in great European cities, wouldn't make it true.

I’m not in the camp of ‘don’t date until you’ve worked on yourself

Fox

Made me think...!

Whilst in my 3 years out I had a 4 month fling - it was no strings attached Summer fun. Surprising, as after EA idiot I couldn't even imagine kissing another guy.

I did that and more tho. No sitting penance over a man who's probably already moved on.

Anyway yeah, like that advice.

OP it's just strange to ask if you 'made' men bad. I'm not quite sure what that means really but you don't have to change your whole character for anybody, you just have to not hang around where a man and his ways don't 'fit' you. Swerving bullies is great for the self-esteem.

It's very hard. I feel very raw and damaged. I have just finished my last argument with my ex. He has blamed me for feeling sad and said that I'm the one that's caused this by breaking up. I wanted to break up, so I should be happy as it's what I wanted. I didn't want to break up, I wanted a happy relationship. I wanted him to change. But that was never going to happen so I did what I had to do. Mumsnet helped me see that my relationship was wrong so I'm thankful for that.

I'm having a hard time now as I'm moving back to the city where we met and where he lives after spending a couple of months with my parents. I'm going to keep going to the same gym he does as it was our gym, and I'm going to keep seeing mutual friends. He's saying I'm being insensitive and unreasonable by coming back. I was here for a year before we met through work). I don't know if I'm being unreasonable but I refuse to give up the happy bits of my life just to make it easier for him. It's just like being back in the relationship, changing my behaviour to make it easier for him.

What he thinks and says is no longer your concern. Don't engage.

Yeah you're right. I'm so desperate for him to just accept what the did. He will to some extent but only behind closed doors. Once someone else is involved or it's written down things change. Hence ringing my mum up to convince her he's not all bad. And shouting down the phone but then sending a 'nice' text incase I show anyone.

Anyway, I think I have definitely ignored red flags. I need to work on my codependency but it's hard when you've grown up with an inseperable twin for the first 19 years of your life. It makes being alone very difficult and I'm constantly craving affection. But I'm moving into my own place in a week so I can hopefully start learning to be happy on my own.

It's so sad, I would have done anything for my past partners. I just wanted them to be happy. I just want someone who will accept me for who I am and accept my attention either open arms without using it as an excuse to abuse me.

Sorry my predictive text on here is abysmal. My phone really tries to stop me writing coherent sentences.

None of it is you. None of it.

I don't see why you have to go to the same gym. Only see mutual friends if they're very good friends of yours, and you or they are not going to edge the conversation around to him.

He's an abuser - leave him alone. Don't look to put yourself in his vision.

Do the Freedom Programme. & as hard as it is, accept some home truths or you'll be fodder for the next abusive bully that may come along.

You have to try to put the work in.

There are so very many men in this world. You can work on yourself, expand your circle and your world and interests, and meet someone else eventually.

Not saying it's easy, but it is do-able. Better that, than time and years wasted on a man who just isn't worth it.

& when you do find a lovely new relationship, don't speak your Ex into your new relationship. Go forward as a new person.

Do the best for yourself as a woman.

@MistressDeeCee I know what you're saying about the gym and friends. I was talking to a counsellor and they said that it would be good for me to keep the same routine and to not have to give up anything else for thie relationship even though it's over. And to be strong and stick up for what I want. So yes I could change gyms. But why should I when he caused all of this?

I'll think I see how it goes, it might cause me more stress knowing that he goes to the same place even though we've agreed when we go to avoid each other.

The other part of me thinks that I'm being mean and insensitive to him as I could go somewhere else. I don't know what to do really to make myself feel better but also be a good person :(

You say you are desperate for him to accept what he did - I totally get that. Understandable. But the thing is, he NEVER will. You can torture yourself trying to run at a brick wall over and over and over again. Or you can put some effort in and drop your pride and accept that he will never admit he was in the wrong, and eventually, you can be okay with that.

It was so hard with my first EA relationship I wanted him to just realise so badly that he was abusive and I wanted to scream through the roof what he had done as well - because no one would believe me (his side of the family and friends).

Fast forward a few years, he still thinks he is innocent and so do his family and I am okay with this. I’ve accepted that I cannot make someone feel remorseful who simply doesn’t have the ability to feel remorse! And the small few people who did believe me, were the people who mattered the most. My family and my very close friends. That’s all that matters, it really does. He is still winning because you still have these desperate emotions there. He will always win, until you make peace within yourself.

I wish your journey to recovery to be a smooth and quick one, you will be back in your feet in no time and see the blessings you have in your life 🌸

great post mistressdeecee

I'm trying to see the positives too. I've learnt boundaries now and cam recognise red flags. I've learnt a lot from this forum. When all the controlling behaviour started I was posting about how I could help him and fix things. I'm so far on from that now and I know that if this happens again I will be able to act sooner. I will still do the freedom programme too.

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I don’t really think it’s what your doing, it’s more like something you cook up between you, like if all the circumstances are right you get the perfect storm.
One thing that I did which I found helpful with assertiveness was always thinking what advice would I give a good friend. So if I was on a situation and he started with criticism instead of panicking I’d imagine standing outside the situation as an observer, and then it seems more obvious what to do.

falaff - your Counsellor irresponsible. If keeping your routine puts you in the presence of your abuser, then it's not a sensible thing to do.

You say why should you change gyms...?

Because the man that emotionally abused you is there.

It's not about proving a point. It's about getting your life back on track after somebody has tried to disrupt it.

if you come across him at the gym as you surely will, then you will speak. I guess you hope to speak.

Your last paragraph is just excuses to be in his presence really.

I'm not judging - just saying if you want to live a good life, you have to face some home truths about what you allow to happen. & what you want to happen.

Back to things we at times won't admit to ourselves...

You've not broken free yet really. But you could look at the Freedom Programme for now and see what you think.

I couldn't see your last post before as I'm on the phone not laptop. Small screen.

Good that you are going to do the Freedom Programme etc. No woman needs an abuser in her life.

There are good people out there.

Thanks. I actually honestly really don't want to see him. I dont want to talk to him again. The only reason for getting in touch with him is to check that he's not going to be there. It will be painful and he is very good at talking and being persuasive. I just feel very isolated and lonely and find it hard to do new things and meet new people. So i am trying to hang on to the things that made me happy. I just think why should I give up the things I enjoy because he wants me to? Why can't he do some of the changing and giving up things?

It's never you attracting abuse. That's just some nonsense to put it all on women as usual.

The truth is there are tons of predatory cunty males out there looking to use and dominant women.

I've made the mistake of trusting until they gave me reason not to and giving them the benefit of the doubt and making excuses for their shitty behaviours.

Now, it's why the hell would I trust a stranger? Would I just blindly trust someone with my bank details, etc.? Of course not, so why on earth was I giving everything to someone who hadn't earned my trust yet?

That doesn't mean me being an arse but it means vetting someone and not taking any shite from a man at all. We do more research and vetting buying a car or hiring an employee than we do with someone we are interested in being intimate with and sharing our life with.