Emotional abuse - how much is them and how much is me?

[falaff]

Hi,
I've just come out of a relationship where EA was involved, more so at the beginning than the end, and I am trying to learn from it so that I don't go through the same.

People have told me that I may attract these types as I am sensitive and emotional and tend to be a people pleaser. I tend to think of others before myself and love making others happy, particularly a partner.

Bother my past partners were and using to some degree, but had both had a relationship of 8+ years before me. They told me they had a different dynamic with their other partners and I tend to think that they weren't abusive to them. For example, my previous ex took great care of his previews partner whereas with me he wouldn't keep the house warm and also withheld affection. He accepted her inability to have regular sex whereas wit me he was forceful and didn't accept that I didn't want regular sex due to mental health. My 'current' ex was fine with his ex seeing other men as friends, even letting her go on holiday with them, whereas with me any male friends were an issue for him.

I guess I am asking is it that I have caused them to be abusive because I've not been assertive enough? I am afraid that any future relationship will turn out the same way. I don't get it - both exes have said they loved my sensitivity and caring nature but then complained that I was too sensitive.

I know I need to work on myself to be more asservice. But I am who I am and I don't want to become cold and stubborn.

Have I turned these men 'bad'? Why we're they like this with me but not so with previous partners?

I've only read the OP and I'm pissed off.

How much is you? Totally fucking nothing nada. These parasites get their kicks this way. Emotional abuse (imo) fucks you up far more than sexual (imo and I've suffered both).

People have told me that I may attract these types as I am sensitive and emotional and tend to be a people pleaser. I tend to think of others before myself and love making others happy, particularly a partner.

So, you're a warm hearted, caring, empathetic, sensitive, insightful woman? Traits don't attract parasites really, they focus on getting their claws in on any person they can. Then if that person is vulnerable they exploit it. I can guarantee you are not their first victim.

They are controlling you emotionally, sexually and stripping you bare bit by bit, like not letting you see male friends. You can see the problem with this scenario - seeking to make you vulnerable and ensuring they isolate you.

I'm very concerned about the sexual implications you've mentioned. Are you being forced into having sex?

I guess I am asking is it that I have caused them to be abusive because I've not been assertive enough?

They'd want you, love you to think like this. This will be one of the ultimate goals - to make you feel responsible. That you are to blame. You're such a horrible person. Just NO. This is why emotional abuse is so insidious, when you lie awake in the middle of the night, going over every detail, pinpointing where you think you "deserved" the abuse. It's like a cancer - it festers and grows, each new think you've done "wrong" until you are convinced you're the problem, and so lucky to have the abuser staying with you. I'm rather scared, just from your OP, you have already been started down this path.

Can you get out of the relationship @falaff ? You need to. Your confidence is down because of the abuse, your posting affirms that. I'll now go read the whole thread!

@SimplySteve, I'm out of the relationship now and have been for about a month. But I have een really struggling and feeling very lonely, and missing the person I wanted my ex to be. He wasn't sexually abusive at all, in fact he was very good in this area. My previous ex was, however, and I didn't realise how damaging that was until I got into a new relationship and learned that it was OK to say no.

So whilst these relationships have been very hard for me they have at least helped me learn what is accepable to me and I am confident that I will be able to recognise red flags in the future and stick to my boundaries.

I suppose I am asking because of their past relationships not having these issues. I think my personality does perhaps bring things out of people - I'm really trusting and can also be very full on and obsessive about things so I think this led my insecure partner to feel threatened by my male friendships. But taking out their insecurities on me and trying to control me wasn't acceptable.

So happy to hear that, and that you are ring fencing boundaries. The emotional scars can take a long time to heal, you need to remember always that none of this was anything you did, said or implied.

I just think why should I give up the things I enjoy because he wants me to?

You absolutely shouldn't. It's completely unacceptable controlling behaviour on his part, probably to try and prevent the truth coming out and jeopordising his plans to paint himself as the good guy and injured party.

You need to get angry, because you should be. I know it's hard to go against your own nature but enough of you feeling awkward or worrying about him. Turn it into "how fucking dare he? Who the hell does he think he is?" and if mutual friends inquire into what happened just be open and honest and tell them exactly who he is. You have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of.

I just wanted to say this thread is perfectly timed for me. After a lifetime of normal relationships, I’m currently extricating myself from an emotional abuser. I’ve been on mumsnet for a while and and knew what I was potentially dealing with, but went ahead anyway. I thought, well if he’s an arsehole once every three months I can deal with that as everything else is so amazing. I stopped expressing emotion for fear of setting him off, and when I said to a friend (jokingly) ‘Yeah the holiday was great I only cried twice’, I thought, oh shit. Then the last three months he has just got worse and worse. I was friends with this man for over a decade. So sad and hurt that he wasn’t the man I thought he was at all.

So, I would say, it’s him not you. None of us is perfect but when the punishment doesn’t fit the (perceived) crime then you know you’re in trouble. For me, I would avoid the stomach dropping possibility of seeing him in the immediate aftermath. Once you’ve healed and feel sorry/indifferent to him then you can cope with seeing him out and about.

It's not 'cold and stubborn' to have standards and expectations about how you're treated
THIS is so true ^

You are a people pleaser. You need to be more assertive.
You are having counselling and you will do the Freedom Programme.
You have recognised the co-dependency.
You are working on yourself and that's great.

And NO, you shouldn't have to give up your previous life because it makes it easier for him.
Tough! You do what you want to do now.

The Freedom Programme will help you with boundaries and asserting yourself.

Well done on ending it!

Thanks everyone. TooTrue and Stabby* I think you both give good advice in terms of living my life but also protecting myself from seeing him whilst it's still raw.

You are completely right that it's all about him and protecting his face in front of other people. He rang my mum when we argued last night to try and tell her his side of things and make out that I was being unreasonable bieng back in the city. My mum!!! When I finally left him he got out of the car at a junction because he didn't want other people to see me upset. Nothing about being sorry for upsetting me. Just about how he would appear to others.

I am getting mad now and it's helping. I'm letting it all out and not holding back how I feel. I was afraid to say to his face that he was emotionally abusive because it would upset him and I would appear overly dramatic. But I'm not going to hide what it was just to make him feel better.

OP: it was an never was you. I was in a EA relationship until 2 years ago (we were together 21 years and have two kids). I blamed myself a lot over the last few years, wondering what I did to make the man that supposedly loved me be so fucking horrible. The relationship was toxic, and grew more so as he could see I was moving away from him. I didn't "let" him behave like that, my bounderies are usually very good and most people see me as a strong independent woman. But he wore me down, little snide remarks, constant commentary of my movements, agression, anger, mixed in with laughter and fun times. Its a complete mind fuck and anyone who says that you should just not tolerate it, can't have experienced it.

I didn't want my relationship to turn out like it did, i didn't want to have children then have them in a situation where we share care. i don't like being away from my kids. Its the main reasons I stayed and I did love him. Not the man he became but the man he was.

Anyway, i would reccomend you read the Lundy book, Why does he do that. Its an eye opener.

Ironically my ex has now hooked up with someone who left a toxic relationship, and from what she is posting on facebook it seems like she thinks she has got a prince in my ex. Good luck to them both ;)
It takes a long time, a lot fo work on self improvement and confidence, but you will get there. I was a mess only 1 month out of the relaitonship, and actually only recently have started to feel like the old me. I laugh a lot more, I live in the moment more and I love life a whole lot more. They are emotional drains, sucking all the joy out of your life in order to make them selves feel better. Its not you , it is most definately HIM.

falaff Google grey rock. Stop engaing with him about who was right and who was wrong. I tired for almost 18 months to see if I caould get my ex to see what was wrong in his behaviour. He couldn't. He just thought he was misunderstood and I pushed him to say and do things that were hurtful. He lashes out whenever he feels insecure. Its sad really.

I thought, well if he’s an arsehole once every three months I can deal with that as everything else is so amazing. I stopped expressing emotion for fear of setting him off, and when I said to a friend (jokingly) ‘Yeah the holiday was great I only cried twice’, I thought, oh shit.

This was exactly me. I remember crying on holiday and what caused it and being so sad about it. And holding back how I felt whilst he was allowed to express how he felt. I told myself that the next time I got so upset I would leave and I stuck by it. I wasn't as relieved as I thought I would be and have been very sad about it but I keep thinking back to the bad times and it gets me through it when I doublt myself.

I’m so sorry OP. My ex just hates himself, his father was an abuser. He admits that previous girlfriends have called him an ‘Emotional bully’. But he can’t change and he isn’t even taking steps to try. I know I can’t change him. I’ve suggested the Hoffman institute residential course to him. Just for himself, he will be miserable for the rest of his life, and will drag any woman that falls in love with him down. I pity him and have lost respect for him. It’s like cohabiting with a toddler.

Despite all that we know, it’s still devastating isn’t it.

I get that. I feel sorry for him too, it's all around his insecurities, trust issues and feelings of self worth. He had real issues around other people being potentially better than him, like if I had a male friend who was better at X. I really don't get these guys who think that if another man shows an interest in a woman she'll xonpletely ignore the fact that she loves her partner and instantly fling herself at him like an episode of Star Trek. I actually find it really offensive that someone would think that low of me.

He was a real attention seeker and very smothering which was nice attention first but then became overwhelming, particularly when he got upset or grumpy if something or someone else had my attention. Yet there was no question if he wanted to see friends/go on a trip/football instead of seeing me. It was very one sided.

I threw in the towel when he got critical of my behaviour what I thought was normal. He was such a hypocrite and would say he loved X about me but then when I actually showed that behaviour (enthusiasm, sensitivity) would pick me up on it like a naughty child. It was so depressing.

I do still miss him, we had lots of fun times. But even the fun times were peppered with crap times.

Hugs Stabby

Obviously we know that it’s their self hatred projected onto us in the form of sneering and criticism but it doesn’t feel like that at the time. They are so pathetic, imagine having to walk around with all that anger and insecurity? Totally relate to the ‘naughty child’ comment. He has said horrible things to me and about my family. I have never once gone in on him, once. Because I knew it was futile. He takes all my emotions from me. BTW Calling your mother is weapons grade fuckery and I’m so glad you are out of the relationship.

Hugs to you too.

I know right?! He cares more about what my mum thinks about him than my feelings. He has asked me not to tell people why we broke up. God knows what he's told people but it will all be to save his reputation.

It is sad because I don't think he means it. We went through a horrible time a few months in when he got very controlling, not outright stopping me doing things but having such am intense reaction that I had no choice but to stop seeing and talking to friends so as not to have an argument or upset him. He used to get upset at something like me seeing a male friend, and then not let me defend myself. He would say he was the one that was upset and I had no right to answer back about it. I found that impossible. He did get better but I still avoided doing things to save the upset. He would say he was fine but his expression and moodiness said otherwise. He'd go in a mood or be all quiet and think that just because he didn't actually say the words 'don't do that' that he wasn't controlling.

I may be being slightly unreasonable not changing gyms as he's the gym bunny and it's more of a needs must thing for me. But for my own health I think it's important for me not to give in.

He has started counselling and I truly hope he gets better. He would get very upset about things and I could see him hurting. I sufree from mental health issues so I tried to be supportive and understand that sometimes this causes you to be irrational. But a lot of people have told me that it's not an excuse to be abusive or mean and I shouldn't have to stand for it.

I'm excited about my new house and starting again, I'm going to put the effort into making new friends and picking up old friendships that I lost through the relationship. I have apologised to my friends for not being there for them and I think they understand now.

You said in your first post that they didn't treat their exes like this.

But you only have their word, right (?)

And men like this lie about that. I've been with a controller and he said the same to me; however over time he dropped himself in it on several occasions and if was plain he had acted in a similar way to exes.

Also I 'got' a few occasions of hassle free socialising on my own - because we'd recently had a massive argument about his controlling behaviour, I'd told him we'd end up finished if he didn't stop .. and so he was 'behaving himself' to prove he wasn't controlling (he was and is deeply controlling). His behaviour cropped up agaun not long later; but no doubt he could say to future partners " i had no problem with her going out on her own/going on a trip on her own, she went to a,b,c".

Likewise I refused to give into the control and persisted in socialising separately in spite of the blow ups and criticism and threats to dump me etc etc so again he could point out all those occasions to a new partner and say he didn't behave this way with them.

I'm sure the examples he gave me of having no problem with exes socialising alone/separately were similar.

They have every motivation to lie and they can twist things - you don't know what the real.truth is.

Also even if they did treat their exes differently/well (unlikely), so what. It doesn't change the fact that they're not treating you well and need dumped.

(that should have been 'didnt behave this way with me, not with them).

Absolutely not your fault, and the qualities that attract an abusive partner (willingness to see the other person's side, to forgive, to believe people have good intentions) are also qualities that, with the right partner, lead to a very positive relationship.

However, there is a useful metaphor of the shark cage which can help you think about how you can keep yourself safe.

Possibly they were abusive with their other partners but in different ways. Most abusers tick some of the boxes but not all. For example my ex never controlled what I wore, and would quite often buy nice things/food/holidays etc and didn't worry about things like heating. If their abusive behaviours are about control, it's not necessarily that they are miserly about heating etc, but that they see this as a specific way to control you, to break you down or make you miserable.

The website Baggage Reclaim has been really helpful to me to identify patterns I was missing.

It's just so insidious. I've just separated from my husband (but stuck in the same house) who has been critical and miserable towards me for years. But everything is my fault. He is controlling about some things but not others. In fact, I'd never thought of him as controlling until I started telling people about "our problems" and that was the word that came up again and again. I come out of every conversation with him starting to question myself - maybe I am fickle, lazy, deluded. I am also a strong, independent professional woman and I can't understand why I wasn't better at standing up to him.