Just ended it... let’s support each other

[Fireandfury1]

Looking for a handhold if poss...
Divorced mum here, involved with divorced dad. DCs involved.

Ended it as too many red flags/uncertainties/insecurities. It was too rushed, he wanted DCs to meet, to move in. It was too fast.

He would pick me up & drop me when suited. It culminated in a talk about his sudden need to go away this weekend. Also, many female friends whom he made it clear he wanted to continue seeing/texting. It wasn’t clear what the nature of these friendships were. Unclear boundaries.

I never knew where I was. This eve I tried to have some space but he got annoyed as I wouldn’t jump to his call. He sent me a long message wanting to get in there first with ending it. I went to see him. Talked a bit, but he made it clear he wanted to sleep & he wasn’t sure if we are compatible anymore.

I am heartbroken. BUT

• better to learn now, right?
• these are not the actions of one who loves me
• the power struggles were too much: being criticised for my satnav/driving in front of his DCs
• the constant not-knowing of where I/we would be staying... his, mine, his, mine

Anyone else feeling a bit sore and sorry for themselves?

Raging, thank you so much for this. Amazing, was just what I was telling my friend - I turn sorrow into rage. All that stuff about how we are parented. All true. I will send to him.

He was in touch earlier, saying he was glad he re-thought our relationship. Hah, that's not quite how it went, but hey ho. All part of his control thing. Can't wait to talk properly. Maybe some of it is lost over phones.

Hope you are feeling better. What a long day!

Well, he’s back today and I don’t know if I should dump all his things by his door so he sees them on return, or whether to keep them in my boot...

I am worried I might provoke him into ending it with me if I dump his stuff, equally I couldn’t cope with his things in my life when he said it was over.

I am scared. I loved what we had but I am worried now that it will turn into an on-off-on-off thing where he thinks he can sever it whenever suits him. Urgh.

Hmm sounds familiar! Yeah I’d advise against putting it all outside for him. From experience, that can escalate things horribly. Put it in your boot, out of sight, then arrange with him a neutral place to drop it off.

FWIW that’s how I ended up getting back with DP the last time, dropping his stuff off to him at work, waited in the car and ended up with him getting in the other seat and us pouring out hearts outs. If you’re serious about ending it I’d drop it off with a mutual friend, or let him collect it but don’t let him in! It’s like the final opportunity to salvage things before you run out of reasons to see each other, so if you don’t want to salvage it, be strong!

I had originally said I would take his stuff to work again (we work close to each other) as I knew if he came here I’d cave. After his sad messages the other night, I’ve asked him here for a chat, knowing full well we will both get sucked back in. It’s like we can’t stop torturing ourselves!

And yes, I think doing it by phone you lose a lot of the softness that comes when you talk in person. For you to have the opportunity to touch his arm when you say something heart felt or for him to hug you if you cry, the conversation can turn out very differently.

I'm amazed you have time with all this f-wittery when you have children and where you already say they was a lot of upset/upheaval in their lives.

Why not put your children first instead of your sex life and all the emotionally damaging baggage that comes with it?

Honestly can't believe some women need to be politely told this:

Once you bring children into your life and the whole time they are dependent on you for safety, emotional stability, loyalty, comfort; they need an environment in which to grow up in with great role models in their lives so they can watch and learn to become kind, thoughtful and responsible young people.

May be give your dc the headspace this f-wit is taking up and put all your love and effort into creating a fun and beautiful life for them?

Thanks for your opinions, Prettyvase and I'm glad I don't cease to amaze.

I am fully capable of engaging with all this AND with putting my children first, thank you very much. The two are not mutually exclusive. They have my love and my effort firstmost, and a "fun and beautiful life" AS WELL AS my having a relationship.

My children are with their father half the time, and for all you know, may be away at school. His children are grown up.

My thread asks for support. I don't need your mini lecture and am aware of the responsibilities of parenting. Thanks.

Raging Thanks for posts, I am finding it so helpful to think things through.

Over the course of the weekend, we decided that it wasn't over after all, but that we need to talk. He has been on text just now as well, but mostly about work and DCs. I had previously told him I would return his stuff but have taken it into my boot. Think I will take your advice about keeping it in the boot for now. I'm not ready for the things to re-enter my home, but now we are 'back on' (for want of a better term), I can show him.

This has been our first weekend apart. I think that's what ignited stuff. I'm glad he has seen it needs working through, rather than just ending at the first hurdle, but naturally I am now wary. He's a good bloke, I've known him years and year. I respect his parenting and his help and advice with my DCs, ex (who also knows him) and work, but arghhhhh.... I knew it would take work.

Yes, you're right - returning things is last opportunity before running out of reasons to see each other! That was well articulated. Thank you. This is why I felt uneasy.

Just hope this hasn't started a set of on-off-on-off behaviours. Doubtful, but I don't like that. Generally he and I sing from the same hymnsheet and seem to have similar views and goals, but he is one proud, proud man....

Wish me luck for later...

Hope you are feeling stronger today

You have DC? Jesus.
Just fuck him off! Why are you hanging onto this prat?

Over the course of the weekend, we decided that it wasn't over after all

What? Why?!

Do you not work on your relationships, NotFordType?
This is the first argument we’ve had, so I’m very much muddling through...

It’s all very easy to make snap decisions when it’s somebody else’s life in writing. When you’re living it, it’s a different matter. There are real people and emotions at play here, not just words in a screen. Relationships aren’t always straight forward.

Do those if you who think single mums should just concentrate on their kids not their love life, also think married parents shouldn’t spend any time or emotional energy on each other?! Most adults are capable of being both parent and partner, and spending a bit of time and energy working on how to be better at both if needed.

Fireandfury I hope your chat goes well.

Thank you, Raging, I appreciate that very much. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. Relationships are complicated and human beings have many lives. My DCs are enriched by our situations, rather than emotionally starved!

Not sure how this chat is going to happen. DS not happy about partner's behaviour, so I don't want him to come to my house. It's possible that DS will go to his friend's house, which will give us a few hours. DS understands that I am speaking to partner about things. Back to the point above, I think it has given my child emotional maturity and depth of understanding about relationships to have stuff explained to him in an age-appropriate way.

Anyway. Enough. I'm not worried about my kids, they are doing vvvv well.

Wishing you continued support, Raging. Good luck. xx

Thank you. Had our chat today but while went into it quite optimistic, he was a lot more reserved about potentially making the same mistakes again. Talked for over an hour, by which time he seemed more optimistic and me less so! It’s seems we can’t get on the same page.

I feel like he reeled me in with his messages but then because I didn’t respond in kind (I did actually say I was finding it hard, but that we can’t keep doing this) he has since backed off.

I expected him to come round and want to put things right, but instead we just ended up rehashing some old ground. I think we did have some positive moments in amongst it, but it’s probably still 50/50

Oh I’m sorry. That sounds really stressful. What will you do? Have you tried couples counselling?

OP. Don't go back, he's playing games and he will end up breaking your heart over and over again. He's a player and hedging his bets!

Sorry, its turning into my thread not yours . Do you have a plan yet? I agree that we don’t need to shield our DCs from the reality of relationships. As long as they’re not being dragged into it, there’s no reason why you can’t tell your DS that you’re going to have a chat to your DP and try to sort things out. Showing resilience and compromise is a good trait.

We did try counselling a couple of times, but it just makes us argue even more . Ended up outside the counsellor’s office arguing in the car park about something that we’d brought up but not had time to talk through!

We both know what the issues are and how we could both solve them. But his living situation is unusual and after 6 years we still aren’t any more committed than we ever were, which is hard for me to accept and I get upset being left out of things, while his ex and her family are very much on the scene.

My biggest fear is that being peri-menopausal, my irritability won’t just be once a month any more and his short temper won’t cope. He made all the right noises when I broached it today, but based on our track records I just don’t know if we can change our approach to each other enough. Men handling menopausal women even when they’ve had a stable long term relationship sounds hard enough. For a couple who have already had issues it sounds like a recipe for disaster!

But then I’ll be taking my problems with me wherever I go. And whichever woman he meets, she’ll have off days too.

I wish I knew the answer. But it’s so hard!

If it were your daughter/son, what advice would you give them?

If they came to you saying, "mum, my boyfriend/girlfriend - they're messing with my head. Mum, it makes me feel so anxious and sad. I feel like crying. They blow hot and cold, they live their life however they want and I'm just an afterthought, just a side bit there whenever they need a cook/maid/shag"....etc.

What would you say to your kid?

That’s a fair point lovetherisingsun but it’s never quite so black and white. If they said “when we’re together he tells me he loves me, we have such a laugh together and it makes me so happy, but he has his own DCs and a life with them and it’s difficult to find where I fit, so sometimes we end up rowing” you’d probably advise them to keep talking. Love isn’t easy to find at any point, but second time around with all the extra baggage, it’s even harder so you do need to be a bit more patient.

Lovetherisingsun If this were my DD, I would tell her to do exactly what I am doing: persevere, be patient, but also keep self-respect up. He has told me he loves me, and that he is happy in our relationship after all. There was quite a build-up to Thurs night/Fri early hours. I would also advise her to keep talking. We haven't been able to do this yet due to work and travels.

Mine has blown hot hot hot but just recent things, on Weds, was more cold. I know why this is now, which is why I feel ok about giving it a bit longer. For now.

Raging Don't worry about whose thread it is! I am just pleased we can support each other for a bit. It helps to know I'm not alone going through this relationships shit. Human beings are crap.

He has texted since after work but about the evening plans rather than talk talk. Think that will be in person and I expect tomorrow, as we both have a bit of time, usually, before school runs start.

I'm glad you agree about not shielding DCs too much. I am passionate about them knowing that relationships take work. Give and take, and talking. Agree HUGELY that showing resilience and compromise is a good thing. So far, so good. They know they come first.

I'm sorry that counselling didn't work for you. I had this with ex-husb. Dreadful! Funny how we can be such angry people when there is couples conflict.

It sounds encouraging that you both know what the issues are, and that they can be solved. Mine, too, has unusual living situation! It is really hard to not have more commitment after all those years, I can see why you feel like you do. Doubly hard if ex is still allowed to be involved.

Oh goodness, please don't worry about perimenopausal! Easy for me to say (although I cant be that far behind! 43). It may not be anything to do with your irritability, anyway! We sometimes feel irritable when we feel unsafe. Don't give him that ammunition!

Yes - we are all only human. That kind of helps me to remember. Gah, though....

Feeling tiny bit better for having him texting but I feel quite pathetic, too. Wahhhhhhh...

I "knew" a guy who did almost all the things you've mentioned - the love bombing, the being control, having lots of female "friends" whose bodies he'd compliment etc., rushing the relationship to move closer, suggesting having a child etc, being a bit trigger happy in that whenever he'd sense I wasn't happy with him and about to leave him, he'd get there first and tell me it isn't working and then chase me to get back with him after less than 24 hours of the "break up". Even did the hoover via texts by saying he misses me... and tried to gain access to my social media etc

In the end, I found out he's a narcissist (had literally all the traits listed clinically) and had broken up with/blocked at least 26 different woman from the info I could find.

By the end, we'd had more than 12,000 texts between each other

Blimey, Lightening, thanks for sharing. That sounds dire.

This guy... I know his ex partners/wives as I’ve known him for years. I don’t think he is a narc narc but he can be selfish. I don’t think it needs analysis, but a firm grip can’t go amiss

Meeting tomorrow. We will see what’s what. In the meantime I think I need to remind myself that what I would prefer is a relationship with little drama, no twisting, and with a man who is a good man, respectful, reliable, trustworthy, and who will be a good role model for my DCs.

It can’t do any harm to remind him of the above.

@Fireandfury1. Sorry, this is not going to be the type of response you hoped to get.

Please re-read the title of your thread and first post. Pay attention to all the examples of his controlling behaviour that you cited: he decides when to meet, DC interaction, derides your navigation / driving skills, sees no issues with boundaries re contacting numerous other women and worst of all, he wanted to 'get in there first' to dump you to have the upper hand, WTF?!

You are about to lose what little is left of your self respect. You're 43, so your kids could be toddlers to adults but you infer of school age, I fail to understand how you think you're giving them a good example of working through relationships with a combination of "resilience and compromise". I think in your case the dictionary definition of resilience is 'pliability' rather than the ability to recover from misfortune. You've basically rolled on your back, waved your legs in the air in anticipation of a belly rub and a pat on the head, 'Good Girl'!

You've also alluded to multiple at least two ex-wives and multiple partners almost as if it's underpins his parental / partnership credentials; I assume you're of similar age. I will make an unfortunate analogy - if a woman had the same history what would you think? Desperate, flighty, has no idea what they want in a partner but grass is always greener on the other side?

Lead by example and keep your self esteem.

Thank you MrsCat I have taken on board what you’ve said as I am aware this could be how it’s seen.

The driving thing has only ever happened once and he apologised and realised what he did and why. He knows there must be no repeat.

There are 2 women of the texting. One old family friend who he stopped texting when I asked him. He does take on board my comments about what is/not appropriate. The other friend I don’t think poses a risk but I would like more reassurance from him about this in future.

You say about boot on other foot, in a sense it already is, and in his defence, he has made a fair amount of adjustment if this is, by his saying “a serious relationship”. He doesn’t have good models of this and is aware (his parents died when he was a child).

I am aware of the self respect loss risk. This is why I am talking to him today.

He is a lot older than I am, two marriages, one very young, and other later but she wanted DCs which he couldn’t give by that stage. A long life for him.

I’m aware my story comes across differently on here. Think one need to know the nuances. But yes - the line between resilience and pliability is fragile...

Thinking of you today Fire. Hope you get some time to talk things through.

I hope I haven’t led you astray as the lone voice of compromise on here! I know the sensible thing is to run for the hills at the first sign of difficulty, but it’s not always easy.

I understand that I’m probably projecting some of my own issues onto your situation as it sounds very similar. I’m also aware how my strong feelings in the moment fade after a day or two and what is left is the underlying love I have for him that allows me to see past our changing moods and see things in their best light. So many times I’ve been convinced that leaving is the best thing for us both, but 95% of the time we’re very happy. That 5% is a fucker but it seems sad to throw away the rest rather than work on ways to resolve the 5% doesn’t it?