Daughter saying she'll run away from dad

[scaredofex]

My 11 year old dd does not want to go to her dad's but has been told she has to go as there's a court order in place. She has refused to go in the past for months at a time which ended up with court applications by her dad, investigations by social services and the end result was she had no choice.
She's at high school now and makes her own way home unless her dad is picking her up. She's saying she's going to give her dad the slip when she's next due to go as she doesn't want to go. I've told her she has to go but she's all too aware that as I'm not there at school that I can't do anything to stop her giving him the slip. She is very unhappy with her dad but social services and the courts aren't listening.
I know where she'd probably go if she didn't go with him which is to a friend's house, not sure which friend though.
What can I do?

Why doesn't she want to go?

Im in the same situation and its heart breaking. Let her do it at some point they will have to listen to her.

Because he's rarely there and his girlfriend is a bitch to her. She's permanently scared of his gf. She's very inappropriate in what she does and discusses with her and makes her feel uncomfortable. It's a small house of many, many children where she doesn't feel welcome or part of the family.

When was court order agreed? Were Cafcass involved and what contact time is on the order?

Often these orders might need to be varied as the child gets older...you could try to apply for a variation and cafcass would likely to be involved. They are likely to take her wishes and feelings into account however they also strongly advocate parental contact (even when the child raises issues of abuse).
It seems that the pendulum has swung so much in favour of parents "rights" over children "rights" and mothers are often held responsible if the child refuses to see the father. This is what you need to be cautious about, document what your dd has said and what steps you have taken to address it.

Can you get someone from the school involved and suggests she talks to them?

Awful situation for you and sadly seems to be common as the assumption seems to be all parental contact is necessary, even if the child is scared.

Yes Cafcass were involved and school aware of the issues. I'm NC with her dad due to DV which is under police investigation.
The last hearing was a couple of weeks ago when he tried to enforce the order as both kids missed a day with him as ill. Application was thrown out but judge wasn't interested in any concerns raised and said a separate application needed to be made. But there's a sort of barring order on for another year as ex has made so many applications over the years. (Coercive control) so I'd have to apply for permission to make an application first. No one has listened to her for the past 5 years so I can't see them listening now. It's heartbreaking that she's so unhappy.

How old are the 2 DCs?
When was the original order made that he is wanting to enforce? How old was DD then?
Is other DC happy to carry on going?
What did CAFCASS say in the last report (and how old was DD at that stage)?

Start evidence creating/gathering. Take DD to HP to request counselling. Tell DD to visit school counsellor. Are you engaged with WA? Can they offer her help?

Contact arrangements, even when they are in court orders, are not written in stone. It is accepted that there will be various stages at which it is appropriate to review and change them. Eg when child starts school and is old enough to spend more time away from DM, when child goes to secondary school, when they start becoming more independent and can have more of a say.

Depending on DD's age and the strength of her feelings it may now be appropriate for her to have her own legal representation.

I think you have to let DD "vote with her feet". Let her refuse to go. But document it properly - write to DF explaining that she is refusing to go and why and you feel it counterproductive to force her. Ask him to back off. Say you will try to encourage and reassure her and you really hope it's just a blip. Ie make all the right "noises".
If he then applies for enforcement you've set everything up as best you can.

@shallichangemyname the last order was 15 months ago so she was 10. The children were given a guardian/solicitor who was/were shite. Can't remember if the guardian was via Cafcass or was the children's solicitor. Cafcass basically said no safeguarding issues and she was forced to continue going. Since then she has remained very unhappy. Younger dc is also unhappy but does enjoy going because of the activity they do one day. Dad is usually at work when they go and the gf is looking after them or gf's friend.

WA have said the courts have to take into account the DV when making child arrangement orders and that she shouldn't be forced to go. They have also expressed concern that as dad is under investigation for sexual offences against me that he could be a risk to them. SS and police disagree that there's any safeguarding concerns at present.
I know she will vote with her feet sooner or later and she's just biding her time until she's old enough that the courts allow her to say no. She tends to say to dad that she does want to see him though because she's frightened of upsetting him and scared of what his gf will say or do. It's such a shit situation for her and I want to protect her but get taken to court and threatened with prison if the order is breached again. She's been dragged out of my house kicking and screaming and hitting her dad and been forced into his car before now. She was still made to go as no safeguarding issues. Never meets the threshold apparently.

She's down for counselling at school. Other dc is 9, nearly 10. Eldest 12 in January.

I'm going to speak to my solicitor today and see what they say. I've had over 5 years of these refusals to go and feel so sad for her that her childhood is dominated by this unhappiness.

I have a friend in a similar position, when her child doesn't want to leave her house she calls the police. The police are then witness to her making the child available for contact and the child refusing to go.

I have no advice but I'm shocked that in this day and age such a clear message is given to young people regarding their wishes and autonomy.

Revolting.

I'd be backing her choice not to go op. She'll thank you in the future.

Have you spoken to school? They could offer a statement of any evidence they may have of dd's behaviour either just before /just after her seeing her df.
Cafcass are rubbish ime.

The courts need to cop on. Children should not be forced to have relationships with abusive adult men.

Do you live close to her dad? Can she "go " but then say she's going out with friends and come home, then just go back to sleep ? It's crap, but might be short term idea

Why does her Dad want her to go if he’s at work and she’s being looked after by Dad’s gf? Surely he wouldn’t know if she’s there or not? Court ordered contact is supposed to be for the parent to have access to the child. Not for the child to be dumped with an unrelated stranger while the parent goes to work. Does he ever see his daughter? Imo there’s a very good case for her not having to go if he isn’t spending that time with her anyway.

I'll get flamed but honestly in your position I'd be doing a disappearing act!

I've had a couple friends in similar positions. One disappeared - children happy, well adjusted adults now.

One stuck to the letter of the law, made DC go, DC ended up being harmed and SS/courts FINALLY agreed to not make DC have contact with abusive parent any more but by then the damage was done.

She should be supported to tell dad she doesn't want to be left with girlfriend. Dreadful situation.

Graphista I fantasise about that every now and again. I'd love to be able to up and go but this is my home town and I love it. What little family and friends I have are here and the children are settled and happy here. Plus threats of being sent to prison or minimum of fine and unpaid work. I'm a single parent and my ds has only ever seen his dad once as his dad doesn't want to know him so the threat of prison is huge to me. Also a career for my mum so she'd be stuck without me.

Dad lives fairly close (30 min drive) but another borough. They don't have any friends there and even here aren't at the stage of taking themselves off to friends houses. Friends are invited here or they are invited to friends. It's all pre-planned. Now she's at high school though and more independent we've talked about friends coming round after school if they fancy it as long as a text to their parents say it's ok. Not done it yet but will soon. So no, she couldn't just say she's going to a friends. She's 2 bus rides away at her dad's. He wouldn't allow that anyway. Contact time is for him and his family according to him. That's why he won't bring them back or agree to them not going if he's working as they can spend time with his gf and her kids and their kids. There's no way he'd allow her to spend part of it with anyone else. She has no choice. That's what angers me most: her feelings and wishes don't matter.

I’m afraid I’d be encouraging her to be as awkward as possible. Nobody can force her to do anything. I’m stubborn and in her shoes I’d refuse to interact with gf and her kids - just to show that they cannot and will not tell me what to do. Try to force me to go? Fine, I’ll sit here staring at the wall and not speak to you. Or I’d give him the slip so he couldn’t take me in the first place. Or even make false allegations to get contact stopped. If your DD doesn’t want to go then there are ways and means to make that happen.

SputnikBear oh I'd love to but I have such a fear of him going for residency clsimingnim unfit. He's accused me of being emotionally abusive to the children, putting them up to not going, lying about everything, saying I'm mentally ill. I'd really benefit from antidepressants as after over 5 years of this I'm struggling some days and have nightmares every night about him and am generally anxious, particularly about the children but I won't risk admitting that to my GP in case my ex gets wind of it. My eldest doesn't help herself by changing her story depending on who she's talking to. She'll tell me she doesn't want to go but say to others she does but...
He's taken me to court for breaching several times when they've been ill and missed contact. Even if they've been to the GP and he's had an alternative day. He says I fabricate and induce illness in the children just to stop them going. He'd have a field day if I encouraged her to not go. They've both written letters saying they don't want to go but he says I've put them up to it. Any phone calls saying the same and I've made them say it. i just pray that one day court will listen.

If your DD wants to refuse to go then let her. If she wants to give him the slip then let her. Make all the right noises but ultimately you can’t control her. What sort of decent father would want his kids to be miserable and forced to do something they don’t want to? Twat.

I know. But the court's logic was se has to go to school and to treat contact the same ie not a choice.

I know someone in a similar position as you.

Ex was abusive and her DD doesn't want to see him, but has been told mummy will go to prison if she doesn't see dad.

She says her DD cries before going and is scared of her Ex.

It's just heartbreaking.

I'm sorry for you and her.

If you haven't - I'd be tempted to talk to your daughter about where she would go if she does choose to give him the slip. That's if you think it's something she might genuinely do. Ultimately if she did, it's likely he'd ring police reporting her missing and she would be located and sadly, forced to go. So maybe sit down, say you hear her, that you'd prefer she didn't but want to know she will make safe choices if she does. At least then you'd know where she was, not be frantic with worry and yet she'd still have made her point. It'd be a tricky conversation as I'm guessing you wouldn't want to sound like you were encouraging it, but just thinking of the consequences if you think it's a real possibility.

If you’ve had a court appointed Guardian for your children and an order preventing future applications then the court have taken your case very seriously. Both of these are very unusual and due to serious safeguarding concerns. If you are sure your DD is serious AND she is willing to tell professionals how she feels you need to try to get it back to court. Make sure however that she’s not saying this because she knows you don’t want her to go. Her loyalty is obviously to you. If she had your genuine blessing would she want to go? I mean absolutely genuine (not just words). She’s old enough for her wishes to carry weight now. However be prepared for allegations that you have frustrated her relationship with her dad. I’m not saying you have but this is what will be argued. Just be absolutely sure to find out how she really feels and why before you embark on this. An overcrowded house would not have put me off having a relationship with my dad.