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Original poster

Divorce and moving out

46 replies

KOKOagainandagain · 31/10/2018 17:31

Posting for a friend who is relying on limited RL advice.

She is divorcing her husband. 29 years married. 2 DC, 10 and 16. Decree absolute in the next couple of weeks.

There is no communication. Nothing is sorted. He is still living in the family home and has made no plans to move out. They would have paid off their mortgage if they had stayed together but she has arranged a mortgage in her sole name. He wants to be named as someone not on the mortgage over 18 and still living there. He says he can't find anywhere suitable.

She is bending over backwards because she feels sorry for him, doesn't want the DC to blame her and is afraid that if she makes a fuss a court would force the sale of the family home. He is continuing to live in the house but acts a a lodger (with bed and board). He won't even pick up his DC but then will leave a message on a whiteboard for his soon to be ex wife to make a special journey to pick up a particular product. No asking for a favour, no thanks - just expects her to do it.

What advice should I give her?

OP posts:
SillySallySingsSongs · 31/10/2018 17:34

still living in the family home and has made no plans to move out.

He doesn't have to until all finances are settled and agreed.

Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 31/10/2018 17:37

Just to be clear he intends to continue living there once the divorce is finalised. Of course he will act as an individual rather than a husband or even a father. How does she get him to move out?

OP posts:
Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 31/10/2018 17:39

How are finances settled and agreed? She has paid for mediation but they have not been to court.

OP posts:
SillySallySingsSongs · 31/10/2018 17:39

What financially is he getting from the divorce?

What us happening to the equity in the house as you say the mortgage is nearly paid?

Have they both had legal advice?

Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 31/10/2018 17:45

She is self employed and has limited pension having been a stay at home parent. He is full time and has a work place pension but she has agreed 50:50 to end it. They have been to mediation rather than separate legal advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 31/10/2018 17:46

I believe his pension fund is greater than equity.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 31/10/2018 17:48

Once ownership is transferred she changes the locks...

I would speak to Shelter for the legal process of what she can do.

Livingloving · 31/10/2018 17:49

They obviously can’t agree between themselves so she needs legal advice. There is a risk that the house would have to be sold if they don’t come to an agreement which is what happened in my case (ordered by the court.)

Is she ‘buying him out’ to take on the mortgage?

DogDayMorning · 31/10/2018 17:50

The only advice you should give your friend is to get her lawyer on to this. The decree nisi should not be made absolute until finances are sorted. This doesn't necessarily need to be done by the lawyers but she should be clear where she stands. I assume that as the mortgage is in her sole name, the title to the property is as well? This should be done in the same tax year as separation to avoid capital gains tax. Assuming both house and mortgage are in her name, to get him moving along, her lawyer can tell him that he must pay a rather excessive rent to stay.

If the house is not in her sole name I think it may have been a mistake to take out and pay the mortgage for his equity as well as her own...

Notacluewhatthisis · 31/10/2018 17:50

Once she owns the house she can have him removed. It will be her house. Not his.

This really should all be sorted in the divorce.

RandomMess · 31/10/2018 17:51

I think she needs to accept that she has to grow a backbone and go grey rock with him, no more doing anything for him for starters!

If house ownership is transferred to her he has no legal right to be there anymore but she needs legal advice and fast.

Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 01/11/2018 09:07

Thanks for the advice. She thought it had been sorted. Through mediation (which she paid for) they agreed the 50:50 split. She arranged a lump sum payment and gave up rights to his pension in exchange for his share of the equity. She also arranged a sole mortgage in her name for the outstanding value. He was looking for somewhere alternative. Months later he has not found anywhere, says he wants to buy and not rent but is not even viewing etc. He now wants her to grant him financial waiver so that he can continue to live in the house once the divorce has been finalised and he has his 50% share. Can he do this?

She doesn't want to be seen to force him out because she thinks this will be bad for the DC to witness as he is their father and she doesn't want to be seen as the 'bad guy' or be blamed. She is afraid to ask about his plans before the house is in her sole name and the mortgage is finalised in case he tears up previous agreement, they have to go to court to sort out finances, he is allowed to continue living in the house in the meantime despite being divorced and she is then forced to sell. But she also admits that even when the house is no longer up for debate she would be anxious about asking his plans let alone forcing him to leave. She is now questioning that he really doesn't get that physically leaving is part of the deal and she will never be rid of him.

OP posts:
Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 01/11/2018 09:11

Sorry forgot to mention - she is going through the process of granting him a waiver. Does this give him legal right to remain in the house?

OP posts:
SillySallySingsSongs · 01/11/2018 09:14

Have they both had proper pension valuations done? They both need legal advice.

RandomMess · 01/11/2018 09:16

She needs to get her head out the clouds and stop being a doormat.

She needs urgent legal advice before she buys him out the house and she needs to do what she legally needs to do to get him to leave.

She is being incredible naive to think the current situation is good for the DC. How long before he brings a gf home...

You need to get through to her that he will continue to abuse her "niceness" and this is very bad for her DC.

LemonTT · 01/11/2018 09:27

She needs to go see a lawyer and get some leverage to achieve what she wants from this divorce. To be blunt her actions so far have been to give away all forms of leverage putting her ex firmly in the driving seat. He could be continuing to play her or just as completely lost as she is.

She is an adult so she can make her own choices. But she seems to be throwing away a lot of what she is entitled to to get a quick settlement. Why ? What is behind this? Because the best strategy is to show him the alternative approach where he loses more than 50% of his pension and home.

Advice is to dump the mediation outcome, it sounds ridiculous. Go to a lawyer and seek 80% of everything. She will probably get less but it will be a wake up call for him.

redastherose · 01/11/2018 09:40

I would e surprised if the bank granting the mortgage would be willing to proceed without him removing from the property in these circumstances. She has to be using someone to deal with the legal side of the property transfer so tell her to tell them he won't move out. They may be willing to write to him advising that she will not be able to complete the drawdown of funds necessary to buy him out until he has found alternative accommodation. However, she really should go and see a solicitor now before the decree absolute is granted to get this sorted out properly because it sounds like she has agreed a split of assets which will leave her struggling and he will still be living with her and expecting her to keep a roof over his head for free. She also needs to appreciate that her kids will suffer in the long run if she allows this toxic situation to continue.

Blobby10 · 01/11/2018 10:19

Please please please tell you friend to get proper legal advise. The cost will be a drop in the ocean compared to what not doing so could cost her in the long run.

And tell her NOT to apply for the decree absolute until there is a financial order in place. Otherwise she will be in a much weaker position. Even though my divorce was amicable and ex and I agreed everything, we paid for a solicitor drew the documents up (she acted for me, he paid half) and we had to justify certain points to the courts before they granted the FO.

Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 01/11/2018 10:50

Lemon - I also do not understand why she is being so seemingly generous. Before DC she worked f/t and earned more than him. As part of the divorce settlement he gets all of the pension accrued at that time. Since DC she works from home and now earns equal to him but has no pension. She has agreed to waive any claim to his pension. He has argued that the house be sold and equity split 60:40 in his favour because she might inherit in the future but he won't. He has said the divorce was not his idea and she seems to have accepted that she caused this and so must accept financial punishment.

She also does all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, gardening, DIY etc and all the childcare/organisation. The DC want to stay with her f/t with no stay overs.

She seems to be afraid that a court would agree with him but if she plays nicely he will suddenly behave reasonably once the divorce is finalised. She has discovered that he cancelled house insurance, removed her as beneficiary on pension and will and started withdrawing several hundred pounds each month from their joint account as soon as she told him she wanted a divorce a year and a half ago. She just quietly accepted it all and is paying more now and agreeing to less than she is entitled to. She won't talk to him, she tried to write him a polite letter but he just text and said he was offended and refused to discuss it.

She thinks the DC will work out for themselves that she is nice and he is not. I told her that they are more likely to see that he is all powerful and that she is powerless :(. She thinks she can remain passive and the law will make him act reasonably.

OP posts:
Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 01/11/2018 11:01

Blobby - she has already applied for the decree absolute and the building society are sending the financial waiver to his solicitors for him to sign. A solicitor is drawing up the paperwork for her but is going along with what she agreed through mediation rather than advising re entitlement. She is 'happy' with the settlement but thought his moving out was part of the deal. It now seems that he intends to remain in the house. Can his leaving be required in order for the settlement to be made?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 01/11/2018 12:11

She needs to halt the absolute she needs to get back to the lawyer and fast.

Presumably she could evict him.

She has been a mug presumably due to years of control/abuse Sad

Huskylover1 · 01/11/2018 12:30

Your posts are contradictory!

You initially said that they were splitting assets 50/50, with his pension being worth roughly the same as the Equity (so he keeps Pension and she gets the house), then in your last post, you say that he is keeping his Pension AND getting 60% of the Equity in the house.

If the latter statement is true, then your friend is being a FOOL.

You add together all assets, then divide by 2, to calculate each persons share.

Example:

His pension (current worth) : £100,000
Her Pension (current worth) : £0
Equity in house : £50,000

= £150,000

Divide by 2 = £75,000 each

In which case, he would have to give her £25,000 to even things up. Plus she keeps the house.

Your friend needs legal advice and quick.

Also, any future possible inheritance has NO BEARING on how the financial settlement is done now. Inheritance can never be counted on. That money could be spent, could be left to a cats home, or could be spent on old people's home.

Huskylover1 · 01/11/2018 12:35

She just quietly accepted it all and is paying more now and agreeing to less than she is entitled to

Idiot.

She thinks the DC will work out for themselves that she is nice and he is not

No they won't. He's their Dad, and they won't want to think badly of him.

She thinks she can remain passive and the law will make him act reasonably

Nope. The person with the best lawyer will come out of this best. It really is that simple.

I'm speechless that she is being so passive. This is the ONLY chance she will get, to get her fair share of what is hers. But sadly, if some people want to be a doormat, you just can't help them. It will bite her in the ass, when a few years down the line, Daddy can afford nice things for the kids and foreign holidays, and she hasn't got a pot to piss in. Ooft, then it's going to sting.

I hope to goodness he isn't keeping his Pension and getting a 60% share in the equity. I'm Aghast.

Original poster
KOKOagainandagain · 01/11/2018 13:25

Husky - sorry it seemed contradictory. He wanted to sell the house and split equity 60:40. She would have a claim on his pension in the future but would be unable to afford another house for her and DC that she would be able to work from. Her youngest is still at primary school. She was willing to give up pension claim and her own pension in exchange for his share of the equity as it was possible to get a mortgage under these circumstances. It is difficult enough to get a mortgage agreed when self-employed but she couldn't get a mortgage for a different property when moving impacted on ability to earn (relies on clients coming to a converted space in the existing house).

OP posts:
LemonTT · 01/11/2018 13:27

She needs to get a proper settlement assessment which will be far far more than this. It is in no way dependent on who wants a divorce or why. She could be having an affair with his best friend and it will make no difference. I could even see this settlement being knocked back by a judge as not being in your friend’s interest. Especially if she doesn’t know what his pension value is. Mine is worth way more than an average house. Closer to 2 or 3 average houses.

A lawyer will force the ex’s hand and make him see he needs to be reasonable. I think she would at least get half the joint pension pots plus at least half the house. Her lawyer will go in hard for a big share. His will try to get him as near to 50% as he can. In reality getting 30-40% would be a win for him.

She won’t need to negotiate directly the lawyers will do it.

I could understand some concessions if she was getting a clean break without hassle. But she isn’t and passivity is encouraging him to be an even bigger awkward bastard.

If she was my friend I would find a solicitor (a good local one will do) and make an appointment. Go along with her if she agrees and hold her hand to make she understands that she needs to be assertive to get what she needs and wants.

She can still make concessions, just ones she can enforce and from a position of power.