Divorce and moving out

[KOKOagainandagain]

Posting for a friend who is relying on limited RL advice.

She is divorcing her husband. 29 years married. 2 DC, 10 and 16. Decree absolute in the next couple of weeks.

There is no communication. Nothing is sorted. He is still living in the family home and has made no plans to move out. They would have paid off their mortgage if they had stayed together but she has arranged a mortgage in her sole name. He wants to be named as someone not on the mortgage over 18 and still living there. He says he can't find anywhere suitable.

She is bending over backwards because she feels sorry for him, doesn't want the DC to blame her and is afraid that if she makes a fuss a court would force the sale of the family home. He is continuing to live in the house but acts a a lodger (with bed and board). He won't even pick up his DC but then will leave a message on a whiteboard for his soon to be ex wife to make a special journey to pick up a particular product. No asking for a favour, no thanks - just expects her to do it.

What advice should I give her?

She would have a claim on his pension in the future

Or she can take a cash equivalent sum now.

I could even see this settlement being knocked back by a judge as not being in your friend’s interest.

It could be knocked back because it's in neithers interest. Without knowing the value of his pension it really needs halting.

What about savings also? Do either of them have any savings? That goes into the pot too.

I don't think his pension has been properly valued or that she was aware that she could take a cash share now. I think she assumed that it would be too late in 15 years time when she has greatest need now.

Plus for settlement to be fair the house would have to be sold. I think she would do anything to be able to stay in the house and he is using this to her disadvantage. Obviously she wants to maintain continuity for the DC - few affordable properties up for sale in current school catchment - but she is more worried about loss of income when she is solely responsible for DC. The maintenance that he has suggested is the minimum and assumes 2 nights a week at his. He also says he needs to buy somewhere where they can have separate bedrooms (even though he has minimal contact with them now and they are refusing to stay overnight when he moves out).

It's his making no plans to move out that is concerning her. I think he wouldn't try and pull this stunt if she had not already rolled over. She compounds this by still cooking for him and running around after him whilst accepting his total abandonment of the little he used to do because she wanted a divorce.

I will try and get through to her again.

She doesn't have the information to know what the settlement could be. She could get all the equity in the house by agreeing to leave the pension alone. The maintenance will be based on actual parental care not his demand. He cant make a 16 year stay over.

She is being very stupid and not even getting the crumbs she is asking for. If she must be this ridiculous then she needs to find out what she could definitely get and then tell him its the previous deal or that. He has a week to move out.

From what I understand the value of the pensions he will get in lieu of his share of the equity exceeds the total equity in the house. It's more like a swap rather than a 50:50 split of the pot. So if the pot is 100,000 pension value and equity is 50,000 he gets 100,000 and she gets 50,000. He thinks this is fair because he can't claim pension now and doesn't expect to live long after retirement and will be made homeless whereas he thinks she will be sitting pretty. I had hoped the mediation service would laugh it out but she insists that this is what she wants.

Does a judge have to rule on financial settlement or is their agreement sufficient to over-ride this?

Does a judge have to rule on financial settlement or is their agreement sufficient to over-ride this?

A judge can certainly want to see them over this.

I am pretty sure that she didn't apply for a consent order to make the agreement legally binding, everything was agreed and she has already applied for the decree absolute. Quick google and gov.uk site seems to suggest that no court or judge will be involved.

So her main issue now is getting him to leave. But the waiver names him as someone over the age of 18 that will be living in the house so he plans to stay there post finalisation of the divorce and clean break financial settlement. He won't leave of his own accord and is supremely confident that she will not force him because that would not be 'nice'. I despair.

So what is the point of divorcing him if she is still living with him and acting as his domestic?

Random - I know - she seems to be in worse situation now. She thought that by divorcing him he would understand that he would have to leave and she wouldn't have to do anything else. That is why she is now thinking that he just doesn't understand. He plays 'dumb', refuses to talk to her and she doesn't know what else to do without looking mean. So she is continuing to accommodate. She won't accept it is deliberate non-action and that he is taking the piss.

You need to frighten her and sharpish, that if he contributes to the Home in anyway he will have a further claim on it.

Actually can you may a solicitor appt and drag her along?

Have you actually said "he has no intention of ever leaving until you legally evict him?"

I have made blunter and blunter statements. She crumples and looks as if she will burst into tears but then returns to a circular but calming monologue of what he has done or not done, how unreasonable it is, what she has done, how reasonable her behaviour is in comparison.

I have said stop obsessing, stop focusing on him, stop cooking for him, say 'no', disengage, give him notice to move out, pack his bags, change the locks etc, don't grant a waiver, don't ffs allow him to stay in the house post divorce! But he is playing the victim - he even has tried to recruit her parents and visits them each week without her or the DC for confidential chats. They are too polite to tell him to do one and she thinks he needs some support and she might learn something about his intentions.

Be blunt "he is playing you, making an utter fool out of you, your DC will treat you the same way"

How do you acknowledge being a 'fool' and then be strong, competent and capable for yourself and your DC?

I can separate them - I was wrong, made a mistake etc - but she doesn't seem able to. She has no anger, sense of what she and her DC deserve.

Because non of us are perfect and she is struggling to acknowledge her mistake in marrying him/staying with him so long? Doesn't want to accept she is a doormat?

Has been conditioned in her childhood to be "nice" even at her own detriment?
Something to unpick with a therapist...

Thanks for your responses... kindness of strangers 

There were flowers but emoticons are not working.

I suspect she has most likely got a childhood deep seated conditioning to "be nice" and is terrified of being viewed as doing something "unkind" not realising that she is missing the opportunity to show her DC how to be sting and have self worth and believe in yourself.

Since you said of her parents They are too polite to tell him to do one I think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You're going to need to be even more blunt I'm afraid and tell her that (as a pp said) she's wasting her time getting divorced as she'll have all the disadvantages of being married to him and not even the security. Tell her she ought to cancel the whole thing if she's not going to do it properly.

I think she is hurting the kids by leaving them in this limbo where dad doesn't leave. How can they adjust and accept the separation. She needs to cancel the waiver and tell him to go or she will ask police to remove him as soon as absolute is final. She's made all concessions and been nice and it's got her nowhere. She can rent his room out (assuming he isn't in her room) for extra cash. The kids have friends with divorced parents they know this isn't normal. The kids need a happy mum more than they need a freeloading manipulative dad. Is he really going to kick off in front of the kids if she changes the locks, require the police to be involved etc The kids will be more affected by disagreements between parents than by one parent having a cheaper place to live. She should give him a date to leave. Tell him she will be informing the kids of the date and then if he chooses to make a fuss it's on him. Personally I would tell him to take what he needs by x date as after that I would be changing the locks and then if he didn't go then as soon as he left the house and I could change the locks I would take the kids on holiday for a week somewhere with no phone reception and leave him to figure it out. You should also suggest she speaks to school as it's important they know what's going on. I think she needs to remind him he is the adult not the child in this scenario and putting his kids first would mean not dragging them through this but him finding a nice rental where they can see dad will be ok.