On Line Dating Advice

[NRPDad]

A bit of background:
I’m mid 20s, NRP of DS (3), amicable enough relationship with his mother. Long story short, we weren’t in a relationship, slept together once – contact stopped (from her side) and 6 weeks later she messaged to let me know she was pregnant. So this was not exactly how I envisaged my life turning out – always liked the idea of getting married, buying a house, settling down, having kids (I’m an only child so always wanted more than one). I have paid CMS since he was born and have him every other weekend.

My problem:
I just seem to have no luck in finding someone. I’m on POF, Tinder, Bumble, Happn, Hinge (only learned about this from a colleague last week).

Swiping apps
I swipe right on everyone without even looking on the swiping apps.
I’m lucky to get 2-3 matches a week across all apps – which I would estimate as maybe a 1% match rate.
Very few matches respond to messages no matter what I say (from “hey, how are you” to attempts at cheesy chat up lines to asking them about anything interesting on their profile)
As such, extremely rare I get a date from these apps.

POF
I message predominantly women who also have kids (seem to get a slightly higher response rate and maybe there will be better understanding of what having a child as a priority means).
A first message will consist of standard “Hey [name], how are you?” plus a compliment on one of their photos (genuine ones too, if I really like their big eyes or they have a nice smile – I love a nice set of teeth) and then if they don’t have a blank profile I always read it, try to find some common ground and ask some questions about those things.
I estimate maybe a 2-3% response rate on POF – the vast majority ignore me.

Dates [when they happen!]
I think I’m good at leading conversation – I can always think of stuff to ask and topics to talk about and am happy to do this when the other person is quiet or seems nervous.
I think I’m a good listener. In fact, generally I think I learn so much more about them than they do about me. They don’t seem to ask me much. Maybe that's an issue?
First dates are usually drinks or a meal.
I always offer to pay and unless they are forceful on splitting or something, will pay for it all.
There was one girl who I went on two dates with and was actually so pretty (out of my league) and lovely, we messaged multiple times a day but then she vanished. After a few days I actually had the guts to leave her a voicemail as I was worried she was in hospital or something. Eventually received a response alluding to a stressful decision in her life that was consuming her but wouldn’t reveal much else and didn’t seem to want to keep in touch and maybe pick up where we left off when the situation was over. I'm still a bit gutted about it

I just want a happy home life with someone who cares about me with the occasional date nights, holidays etc that normal people do. Tired of being lonely and once house is purchased will be coming home to an empty house every night.

As most people on this forum seem to be female, maybe some feminine input will help me identify where I’m going wrong or how to improve my chances.

Questions:

1.What do you think is the right approach when it comes to disclosing that I have a child? On POF it is right there in my profile details and description. On swiping apps I don’t put it on there as I’m certain it would reduce my miserable match rate even further. On the rare occasions I actually end up in chats with someone on them I will tell them fairly quickly and don’t proactively hide it (e.g. if I’m asked what I’m doing at the weekend and I’m having my son that weekend, I will tell them I’m doing that and explain about him)

1. Any other apps I should try? What about paid ones? I’ve always been tempted by Match.com but seems expensive and not sure how many women in my age range (say 20 – 27) are actually on them?

1. Some of my best selling points IMO are that i) I'm decently educated ii) have a good job iv) I drive and v) am a home owner (well, soon I will be). Is it vulgar to just stick those details into my profile description? At the moment my profiles are more around my interests (e.g. geeky movies, binge watching series, really wide taste in music, keeping fit)

1. Other suggestions on meeting people, perhaps not with an app? I'm no good at just meeting people on nights out (literally have never talked to a girl I don't already know in a pub/bar/club). I don't have any hobbies where I routinely meet new people. There's a girl at work I think is single and is attractive but I don't have much opportunity to talk to her.

1. I suppose any other general thoughts you have from this post.

Hi OP.

I'm not an online dater myself, but I hear it can be a brutal numbers game. In that sense, you might just need to be persistent. I think women get a lot of messages - literally avalanched my men, many of the requests will be creepy/rude/abusive, and as such I think many women online are becoming quite blunt/no nonsense/numb as a response.

I think your approach is quite good. I would point out your finer qualities - you are a driver, home owner, father. I think it's good to put that you have a child out there. It's an important thing for someone to know - you need to be compatible in this area. Listing these traits MAY attract some users, so just rely on your intuition/spidey senses if a woman is being forceful about money/expensive dates etc (you should be able to pick up on this - I think nice people are happy to compromise over dates etc.)

All in all I'd say don't give up. Online dating can be tough, but not fruitless. Keep working on you, and of course, if you meet a lady in real life even better. Could you volunteer? Most volunteers are women, and many will be single as well as kind and loving, which is a good place to start.

Re the girl at work, is there a way to make an opportunity to talk to her? Do you know someone at work who knows her? Is there a Xmas party coming up? You may need to try to be a bit more upfront/direct with women, which can be difficult if you aren't comfortable with this, but it's a valuable asset for a man, especially as most women WILL expect a man to make the first move so to speak.

Is this something you can practice? It doesn't need to be romantic, just instigate conversations, be jokey. See if that helps build some confidence. You may have no issues with confidence so apologies if I am painting you to be meek and mild!

I agree with Nikki. Online dating can be brutal, you have to develop a thick skin.
One thing that stands out to me is that you seem to be focussing on how the women look and commenting on that. I suppose that is ok if you are extremely good looking yourself and happy for women to focus on that in return.
However you then say you want someone to share your life with. Without being rude you are not giving that message by commenting on someone's appearance.
Every time you say to a woman "you look great in that picture," remember she will probably have heard that many times before, what makes you so special?

I think you need to 're-evaluate what it is you want.
Do you want a partner with certain personality traits, or a good looking woman.
The two are not mutually exclusive but you need to prioritise what matters.
I myself never responded to vague, general, banal comments because I need to be intellectually challenged and wanted to meet someone who took a real interest in me.
As a woman it is easy to get dates, just harder to find that someone special.
Regarding your child absolutely don't hide the fact that you are a father.

@NikkiSahagin
Thanks for the response. I agree about persistence. I honestly thought my approach might be a bit different to normal as when I've asked people I date they seem to have been impressed by my first messages (usually a couple of paragraphs) compared to the dirty propositions or "Hey how are you" they receive all the time.

Would you have any suggestions on volunteering options? I can't say I've thought about volunteering before. I guess if I could find a cause I was interested in I would be able to give an evening a week or something. I was also contemplating taking a martial arts class or something like that as a way to make some new friends.

I took a look at some kinda PUA books that my older male housemate had a couple years ago. Not that I want to be a PUA but there was guidance on improving confidence with women etc. I think I probably do need to make a point of just talking to the women in my life more to get more comfortable with that, paying compliments etc such that if I like someone and want to get to know them then I'm not scared.

@Belindabauer
That is true, maybe I will focus more on the smaller things then rather than sweeping statements about how their eyes are gorgeous (which yeah they probably have heard before). I think personality traits are more important - especially if they are a bit geeky like me. Obviously attraction is important. I'm not fussed on shape/size at all as long as they have a pretty enough face and a passable set of teeth.

What kinda of examples could you give on how to take a 'real interest' in someone in the first messages? Can you remember anything that really impressed you?

Agree that online dating is a brutal process. I wouldn't take any of this to heart though, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. Modern dating on the whole is fucking brutal to be honest. It may sound shallow, but due to the volume of messages I recieved from men when online dating, sometimes I'd just look at the thumbnail picture and wouldn't even open the message. (Terrible I know)
When it comes to messages I wouldn't go OTT but I would always mention something personal to their profile so it doesn't look copied and pasted. Don't do cheesy chat up lines like you mentioned either, even as a joke its cringe. Also, a bar is a much more relaxed setting for a first date, a sit down meal is a no until at least a second date. You sound like a great guy though so just be yourself.

I met my husband OLD.

If someone only messaged ‘hey how are you’ i tended to ignore them.
It’s tedious and you do get a LOT of messages so you need a way to filter them.

Try commenting on something in their profile rather than their pictures.

Also first dates should be coffee or a drink.

Dinner is expensive and LONG if you don’t hit it off.

Have you ever just tried smiling at someone you find attractive IRL and saying hi?

Hi Op!

I met my now ex OLD - honestly he was normal which probably doesn't help you because you also sound normal!
He messaged me general stuff how are you etc - asked about an event I was at in one of my pictures and offered to take me to dinner, he chose somewhere fancy - I asked for Nando’s - he'd never had it! He messaged me the next day saying he was on his way to my house and was taking me to the seaside before my daughter came home 
Think it was the spontaneous bit I liked and how he let me change our plans last minute - and he was my type exactly!
However, since then old has been horrific! And I've been doing it for a year now 😂😂😂

Agree re not commenting on appearance.

If someone told me I was attractive I'd be a bit I'm not even sure why but I would find it a bit insincere. I would prefer that I sound interesting or something else less superficial that seems more like you like the sound of me not the look. Or another comment to show they have looked at and read my profile- if I'm wearing something unusual or look like I'm in an interesting place or have a shared hobby say it's nice to find someone into X like me. Etc etc.

If you have a thick enough skin, you could consider posting your profile description on here....You will get honest opinions but don't post if you can't handle some negative ones (nothing wrong with not having a thick enough skin for MN!)

Also, you said you usually write a couple of paragraphs. For a first message thats a bit excessive especially if you are messaging several women a day. You must spend quite a bit of time composing a message when a) she may not reply and b) she might be dull as shit. Something short and sweet that shows you have looked at her profile i.e commenting on an interest you both share. If somebody sent me a really long message I may reply out of politeness even if I had no intention of pursuing further. This could explain why people suddenly stop replying. I agree with PP about not mentioning their looks, the fact that you had messaged me shows you are attracted to my picture, no need to say it, comes across as you aren't very interesting and are probably just after a shag. Agree with PP if you are feeling brave to show us some of your profile, we'll try not to be too savage ;)

It’s a brutal numbers game! I’ve been single 4.5 years and get matches/dates but very few genuine, lovely men. Maybe don’t limit yourself to single mums? I don’t have children but would be happy to be with someone who does.
A short, snappy intro message is great. When chatting how long do you wait to ask about a date? Do you flirt or is it all quite run of the mill every day stuff? On a date do you show interest? It can be a struggle to work out if a man is interested without some hints! If you want any advice let me know!

Oh...missed your other post. I wouldn't reply to a message which was several paragraphs either. Unless each "paragraph" is just one or two sentences. I would think someone was too much.

I’m in Bumble and matched with someone very nice (but as everyone says, it’s brutal out there and so not expecting anything at all). I messaged and commented on how his line of work was very interesting and was something I’m interested in. I then commented about his amazing hair. He sent a lovely message back saying my bio was interesting and intelligent and he wanted to know more. So, pick up on something that appeals about the bio.

I don’t pursue any matches that comment on appearance only.

Andyou sound lovely, btw. The problem with OLD is that people seem so much more disposable as you know you are a few swipes away from another potential/better date. Develop a thick skin about it and really don’t take it personally. And remember that your profile is a work in progress. I’m always refining mine.

As sad as it sounds, your picture is the key to attracting women, especially the right women. Have you asked a friend to look at your profile with a critical eye?

What age range are you targeting?

Definitely wouldn't be commenting on pictures as a first message. Or not a one sentence or a paragraph either. Somewhere in between is best. Like maybe a hobby they've mentioned or something in their picture as a location if it's a beach etc. Definitely mention your child as it's a no maybe for the age you are interested in. Also if you've a female friend get her to look at your profile as it can help greatly. Or someone here can take a look

Don't take it to heart OP, you just have to keep ploughing thru the brutal world that is OLD.

I think it's fine to make a brief comment on a woman's photo. It's the photo that attracts you in the first place, no matter what is said. I don't see it as anything to be precious about

You sound fine in what you say, but maybe you've just come across the perpetual lookers who think there's always someone newer/shinier/more handsome around the corner

Not sure of your age but you should probably factor in that some women don't want a man with young/school age kids. Often, even if they've kids of their own. Unfair, but that's life. My kids are my world/Disney Dad/your ex in the equation is the fear..

Just persevere, you'll get there. You'll get some harsh in between the good/practical here but focus on the latter, because as OLD creeps go you're nowhere near that.

& as pp's have mentioned, critical eye over your photo is worth a try. Hopefully you're not holding a fish/doing extreme sports/snuggled up with your kids

Good luck.

Definitely the picture ..

Avoid - ones with your son or son cropped off the side of your face

Selfies in mirror

Anything holding a fish as previous poster said

You in a big group of lads - as how can anyone see which one is you

And no Sunglasses

Try to have 3 pictures taken by someone else or at least use the timer which will take some work. One showing full body , one close up and then a main profile pic. All recent.

I think something casual for main pic .. weekend clothes but not gym wear. Ideally out somewhere, like a restaurant or somewhere you like to go.

Unfortunately some people will be out off that you have a child already. But that's life

Plus I'd avoid the teeth comments unless you are a dentist ? Do you have a teeth fetish ?

• put off

Thanks to all the nice responses so far, sounds like I'm doing some things right but could work on other bits (pictures, intro messages, where I suggest for a first date)

@gotafeelingwithin

Thanks for the advice on pictures. On POF I do have one with my son - I'll get rid. Need to work on getting some more recent ones anyway.

Not a dentist and don't have a fetish - but when I talk to anyone (male or female) I always find my eyes drawn to their teeth. I wouldn't want to kiss or be with someone who doesn't look after their teeth.

@Lex4000

Depends how responsive they are as to when I would ask for a date. If they are happily messaging me all day everyday I would ask after a week or so. If the chat is a bit slower, perhaps a bit longer. TBH I'd rather just message a couple days (because then all the rubbish you ask in endless messages you can just ask face to to face, sometimes you pretty much know everything about them before you meet and end up covering a lot of the same topics) then meet but I imagine to most women this is scary?

Probably more run of the mill every day stuff. I don't know how to flirt tbh and worry that if it gets a bit saucy they'll just think I'm after one thing.

I show lots of interest, I'm always the one asking questions and paying them compliments. I try to make eye contact (not creepily long though). I don't know how else to show interest though, is there something I'm missing?

Would appreciate any suggestions of any other dating apps (including paid ones) or ways to meet people.

depends where you are but most people are on Bumble now it seems

there is a dating support group in relationships www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3405306-Dating-thread-141-fun-and-games

feel free to pop in and ask advice

I don't know what Match is like for younger people (I'm late 40s) but it has a lot more serious people on at my age (so people who still want kids/want a relationship) due to the paying element. I've not had much luck on it and tend to be more successful on Bumble.

I do know the younger kids in the office are on Bumble so I think it's for all ages

and as everyone has said, it's a numbers game this. Try not to take it too personally :)

(e.g. geeky movies, binge watching series, really wide taste in music, keeping fit)
See, some of this would put me off (Although I'm old enough to be your mum). A young guy who wants to sit and watch TV all the time just wouldn't do it for me.
As a younger me (and my older self), I'd want someone who was always doing stuff.
Likes the outdoors, adventures, being spontaneous.
What sort of things do you do to keep fit? Do you elaborate on that in your profile?
What is the 1st pic of you? Are you on your own? Are you smiling? Are you wearing sunglasses (if so then choose a pic where you aren't)
It might help if we saw your actual profile. (a bit mixed up and edited so as not to give away who you are)
There might be something there putting people off.