Parental alienation by ex - is my boyfriend supposed to stay single forever?

[Raindancing]

Hi everyone, first time poster, and this gets a bit confusing so please bear with me!

I've been loitering for a while on the divorce discussions and it's been but really helpful.

I'm in the process of getting divorced from a complete EA Narc after a long marriage, I already have had Decree Nisi for over a year now and now having to go through protracted court case before absolute, as I said its all been fun... but that's a whole other story, there's something else I'm now a bit stumped with...

Anyway... we at least got as far as separating and I moved out into my own house after having to live under the same roof separated for 8 months. Egged on by the girls I worked with I was encouraged to go online and start dating which I wasn't sure I was entirely ready for but lo and behold... a month after I moved out I met someone and started dating with no expectations, a bit of getting it out of my system type of thing, problem is he turned out to be really lovely.

We find ourselves still together after over a year now, and have had a fun year getting to know each other and remembering what life's supposed to be about, its been great.

Before he met me He'd been married and divorced for 6 years with two kids aged 12 and 15, his ex wife also appears to be a complete Narc, leaving him for someone that they employed at the company they had together, getting pregnant by him and then, running what had been their joint company to bankruptcy...he lost everything.

He then started a relationship with someone else who had two kids of their own of a similar age to his, and they lived together him having joint custody of his kids. As the kids started getting closer to his then partner, his ex wife (who's partner had now turned physically abusive with her and my boyfriend's kids) and by whom she now had two other kids by, created a pack of lies and went back to court for a revision of custody, leaving him with just alternate weekend contact with to his kids, but leaving them living with her and her abusive new partner!

She then proceeded to alienate both kids, so they both stopped seeing my boyfriend altogether, the younger of the two eventually decided he wanted to see his Dad again and does although she does everything in her power to stop it and mess up contact time. The older of the two hasn't properly seen his Dad for nearly three years (she says its his choice, but there has been no reason why he shouldn't see his Dad and he appears to be being coerced) apart from at sport sessions that his Dad makes sure he goes to to support BOTH his sons and show he's still there.

Anyway the other relationship he had broke up after 5 years last year, around 8 months before he met me (they never married, just lived together, I suspect the ex's behaviour had a lot to do with it)

Anyway the crux of it is... The boyfriends ex wife has now split with the abusive partner she left my boyfriend for, leaving her with four kids on her own, whom she's very possessive of, my boyfriend's two older kids and two younger ones 6&5 from the abusive ex partner.

She has now started my boyfriend by getting his kids to text him asking for more money (she gets child maintenance from him already) and getting them to say things like if he doesn't pay it he's not a real Dad. He's noticed the younger kid that he does see, has been quiet and more off-hand with him as she is clearly also now trying to alienate him from his Dad too. He's trying his hardest to keep contact at all costs this last few weeks, often to the detriment of our time together which I completely understand, although its been tough.

I haven't met his kids at all yet, he's been terrified that if I do (and chances are he thinks they'd like me - I'm not intending being a replacement mother or rocking her boat by any means) she'll increase the pressure and break the remaining contact he has with his kids.

Obviously he doesn't want to risk that, but he's now massively torn and contemplating breaking up with me as he feels guilty and says he can't keep me in limbo not meeting his kids for the next few years until they are old enough to make their own decisions re: seeing him, which without her influence I think they would. But obviously we can't risk him losing contact either. He says he can't imagine me not being in his life but is just paralysed not knowing what to do.

I'm prepared to bide my time for a while at least, and haven't pressured him other than saying I'd love one day to meet his kids and be part of their and his lives one day rather than being having to be kept separate, which is true.

He's gone off into his 'Man cave' for a bit of headspace and I'm left wondering what the hell to do and how the hell to deal with this, it just feels like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? how do you deal with a relationship with someone who's ex is hell bent on alienating her kids from him with no justification. Do we just go for it an hope to be able to deal with the fall out? or do I have to forever stay the 'secret' girlfriend?

Look you can believe him. But be very very wary.
I wouldn’t come on here unless I had doubts. And there are red flags all around.

Hi op. This will sound goady but it isn't. I've met loads of main who claim their exes won't let them see the kids and this part is often true. Then I've got to know them and I understand why. Here are some examples; got so drunk during a holiday looking after a young child he passed out. The child messaged their mum on the iPad saying I'm scared I can't wake him up. The mother challenges him and he threatened to kill her. Number 2....constantly threatens to abduct the child. Severe emotional abuse of the child - mum only allows supervised access. Again a young child. Then there's me....initially exh claims I stopped contact. I didn't I just refused to agree to him seeing the dc whenever he ducking feels like it. He has court ordered access. I'm about to stop contact because the dds were so unwashed when they returned they smelled. Dd2 (5) had a nappy type rash that was so bad chunks of skin were missing from her bum. It took 6 weeks to clear and 4 gp appointments. She was very distressed. Also won't give prescribed medication. Next, very prominent figure locally beat his ex wife black and blue I've seen the photos. He tells everyone he has had contact stopped but actually he just chooses not to see his children.

Also, what does his relationship with you have anything to do with not seeing his kids?

Sounds like that was the status quo long before you guys even met. Breaking up with you will make no different to his 'troubles'.

OP, why did he and his most recent ex split? What has he said about her? And what do you think she would say if you were to meet her?

There are absolutely both men and women who will use their children as ammunition in a split, and the younger the children the easier it is to influence them. However,there are a couple of alarm bells ringing here, not least the fact that the courts reduced his access because they didn’t want to separate the children from their half siblings. There’s just no reason why a court would do that.

My ex told his partner that I was ringing him at work to slag her off. It was all pure lies, and unfortunately she is a nasty piece of work anyway even though it doesn’t justify what he said, but it helped to fuel her pure hatred of me.

But the reality here is that as this relationship is such a new one there is nothing to be gained by persisting to want to be with this man. If the ex is to blame she will make your life miserable for the foreseeable future, and if the ex has valid reasons for acting the way he says she has, then you are going to be stuck in the middle and that’s without the fact that he may not be all he’s cracked up to be.

Also, it may be he’s reluctant to introduce you to his children because they’ll tell you more about his relationship with his most recent ex than he wants you to hear.

tldr version?

He has to leave her emails, to ignore all the messages sent by the kids on her behalf, or to reply to them but only to ask them how they are and remind them that he won’t discuss stuff like this on text with them because it’s (a) not appropriate and (b) already resolved

For all those saying that he’s lying... my oh had a very similar ex, absolutely bat shit, for real. It really IS possible that she is trying to alienate his kids, my oh ex certainly is doing very similar

My advice is not to allow her any fuel at all, let her say what she wants, do what she wants etc, there’s nothing you can do when the kids aren’t with you but are with with a parent with an evil agenda.

Sure you can go to court, but it’s more damaging and upsetting for the kids and like as not won’t be at all successful

All you can do is to keep trying to communicate with the kids and hope they come through the other side

((Hug)) it’s crap, especially as you’re a bystander

Parental alienation does happen. If I take everything he says is true... I'd rather find someone else...with no kids or older kids.

There's way too much drama from his Ex.

Yeh all exes are nutters ... waving you a big red flag

Is there some sort of telly going on or something?

I hate to break this to you all, but there are actually some nutter exes out there. I know because I witnessed at first hand what one of them was capable of, to the point that when her son died, she didnt tell his father and he had to find out 6 months later via social media. It was her I knew rather than him so I saw it all with my own eyes, and heard it with my own ears.

I used to work with another who freely admitted she would do whatever it took to keep her ex out of their childs life. She had gone off with someone else and wanted to airbrush the ex out, her child had a new daddy now apparantly. I dont know if she ever did as I left the company, but she did say she would accuse him of abuse if thats what it took.

There are far fewer than some men would have us believe, but far more than MNers want to admit.

Its not just men who can be complete and utter cunts after a break up you know.

Either way, it's a lot of drama.

You've not even met his kids yet so you've really only got his word for ANY of this!

This is CLASSIC "my crazy ex won't let me see my kids even though I've done NOTHING wrong!"

Except he does see his kids so clearly that isn't the case.

ENTIRELY possible he's acted an emotionally/practically deadbeat dad in the past, you've no way of knowing IF he pays cm and even if he does if he paid in the past, if he paid regularly and willingly or had to be pushed...

You've NO idea how he parents as you've NEVER seen him with the DC.

You need to take all he says on this with a HUGE dose of salt!

Also if it was also his company HE also is partly responsible for its bankruptcy.

If his kids were REALLY being abused and he's REALLY a super caring dad he'd have reported through the proper channels and at least tried to get residency (custody).

Bollocks did that one snapshot of her tell you everything about her! Are you never drunk and loud?

What EXACTLY did you find online that was true? Because anything regarding the children and the divorce and his ex's boyfriend would NOT be in the public domain.

"actually when he found out about the abuse he DID return to court/ CAFCASS but they wouldn't separate her boys from their younger stepbrothers." Bullshit! If those kids were genuinely being abused they'd ALL have been removed.

You have gone from one lying narc to another. I suspect a different specific type as you're not picking up on it but I could be wrong.

I'm also suspecting your having "similar exs" went along the lines of you describing something your ex said/did and him saying "OMG thats exactly how she could be"

MrsBobDylan - actually I'm thinking that actually his ex was due to get business as part of divorce settlement, he wasn't happy about that and sabotaged it before leaving - seen that happen a few times in real life. Usually subtle but in one case the guy put a load of fake negative reviews of the business on various sites. Unfortunately he's thick and repeated an odd spelling error on several!

There are some exs who make things difficult but in my experience there's usually much more to the story.

Also - even if he's telling the truth do you need the grief?

Does it even matter if the story he told you is true or not? If it is, is this what you want for your life?

Way too much drama, you’re leaving one toxic relationship and walking straight into another one. Why on earth would you do that to yourself. Give yourself a break and step back for a breather. He doesn’t sound a great catch or a keeper and you have your own life to sort out.

I feel sorry for the kids in all of this. Stop being bitter and judgmental about the ex wife you don’t know her or what she’s had to put up with. There always more than one side to any story, and this story is all about him. He’s found you easy to manipulate, and you’re believing everything you’re told.

So his kids are 15 and 12, you’ve been together for a year, they live with her and her partner, but they haven’t been allowed to meet you yet? That’s really quite bizarre. I don’t follow his logic. Keep your eyes and ears peeled. There is something else going on here. Something he’s not telling you.

I wouldn’t be bothered with the drama, whether it’s true or not.

I think there's a slight reluctance on MN sometimes to believe that it really can be the mother who is the abusive & manipulative party.

That being said I think its always sensible to take things with a pinch of salt when you only have one side of the story.

Certain things do sound like they may not add up like why he only got alternate weekends when his partners ex was abusive.

However, you're the one who knows this man & as we can only go off what you say I'll answer as if everything you've said is the truth.... It's really doesn't sound like its worth the drama. This is likely something that will cause issues in your relationship for a long time to come. Do you want this after all you've already been through?

Considering he's already told you he's thinking about ending things due to his situation with his kids, I wouldn't want that possibility hanging over my head all the time whilst I wasted more of my time.

I hate to say it but my ex would say all this about me but it isn’t all true. One of my children dislikes her dad and won’t visit him. I did not alienate her!

I think this is a lot of drama and I cannot see how or why this would be attractive to you. You know there are other men out there don’t you? You don’t have to make this one your crusade

Honestly it sounds like bad choices have been made all round by all parties. I believe there are crazy horrible women out there, I do. But I also am very wary of ‘none of this was my fault’ stories from separated dads. It is more plausible that they are both complete nightmares and you are going to enter an absolute vipers nest of shitty drama

There are crazy female exs out there. My DP has to endure one. One of her less reasonable moments was requesting a clause in the consent order demanding he never remarried or cohabited again. I saw the draft of this so am well aware it wasn't bullshit.

Of course the mother could be an alienating, abusive cowbag.

But I'd be inclined to think he was spinning a bunch of lies. Good men have no problems seeing their children, because they've always been good dads and their ex's have no reason to stop contact after the split.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe there are plenty women out there who are manipulative and would do something like this.

There doesn't have to be a logical reason for it.

My view would simply be that I don't need the drama. He's got 4 kids with 2 different women and it's way more baggage than I'd want to deal with. Even without a crazy Ex, that's already off putting.

to the point that when her son died, she didnt tell his father and he had to find out 6 months later via social media.

He hadn’t tried to see his child, call to speak to him or ask about his well being in 6 months?

I know because I witnessed at first hand what one of them was capable of, to the point that when her son died, she didnt tell his father and he had to find out 6 months later via social media.

What kind of father has no contact with his children for six months straight?

You posted in the wrong place. First rule of mumsnet. Women are never ever the abusers, poor delicate victim flowers that they are.

What kind of father has no contact with his children for six months straight?

One that doesnt know where they live because she upped sticks over night and moved (it turned out) 400 miles away with their "new daddy"