Abuse advice, please

[Fretful]

Hello,

I've posted before, asking for opinions on whether my husband's behaviour might be considered abusive or not (last thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3347620-Not-sure-if-abusive-or-not). Apologies in advance, this is a bit long.

Since then, things have escalated. About a month ago, my husband lost his temper with our 7 year old DD over how she was packing her lunch box - they were downstairs and I was upstairs and jumped out of my skin when he shouted. When DD came upstairs to me, I vowed that I would never see that look on my DD's face again - she was distraught, terrified, heartbroken all in one.

That day, I wrote my husband a letter, as he never listens when I try to talk to him. I told him enough's enough and that I thought we should separate. We talked about the content of the letter that night, and his viewpoint shifted from, 'Where would I go?' to, 'Well, I'm not leaving'.

Based on that conversation, he visited his GP the next day, who recommended an app called Mood Gym. She also told him to revisit in a couple of weeks to monitor progress. His second visit was last Wednesday, and he saw a different GP. The second GP asked him more questions, and he admitted that he has grabbed the children in the past and hurt them. Based on this, the GP said she would have to refer to social services.

My husband's mood has been a lot 'better' since I wrote that letter (4 weeks ago tomorrow). However, it has placed me on even more egg shells than normal, as it is such a sudden and profound shift. I don't welcome social services in any way, but thought that if they were involved it might serve as the wake up call he needs to make him see the extent of his behaviour. I still get the feeling that he's trying to shift blame and not take full responsibility for what he's done over the course of nearly 11 years of marriage.

Husband phoned me this afternoon to say that social services phoned him and have decided not to follow up. He claims to have told them everything they should know and was honest with them.

He has asked me for my support to get him through the process he needs to go through to become a better person. I can't. I'm physically and emotionally exhausted. After asking for a separation, to still have him in the house, being weirdly nice and engaged (somehow it doesn't feel wholly natural), I simply can't cope. It still feels all about him, and I don't know what to do anymore.

Sorry for such a splurge. I just wonder if anyone has any advice, or has been through similar. How do I know if he's truly remorseful, or just trying to save face/reputation? He mentioned earlier that he has realised 'what' he stands to lose - I can't help wondering if he should have phrased that 'who' he stands to lose... Am I overthinking?

Ugh, sorry!

Hi - sorry you are going through this. I haven't advice from a husband view point to offer, but from a child of a difficult parent it is hard to get past that type of behavior.
Your husband may change with help/time - but perhaps separation is needed (even temporary) to give everyone including you & DD a breather.

Thank you TCSOTM. With 3 girls I am acutely aware of the importance of teaching them the best example in my actions as well as my words - I don't think I'm showing them the best example right now by staying with this man.

I don't think you've told us the half of it OP. Reading between the lines...

He has asked me for my support to get him through the process he needs to go through to become a better person

fuck that. He's a grown man? Not on stultifying drugs?

But if you insist on helping him ... do it from a distance. Divorce amount of distance.

Life is big. And beautiful. Sonorous. Colourful. The world is large.

Life is but a few heartbeats. Don't waste it on a fugly.

No, you're right, catsatrophe, it's not even close to half. 11 years' worth, all resting on an app called Mood Gym? Which, just over a month ago, he would have torn to shreds if anyone suggested he might need it.

I think I know the answers to all my points and questions - just, after 11 years of belittling, dismissal and doubt, it takes a while to realise my gut instinct is probably right.

I take it you have rung social services yourself now? To check why they haven't spoken to you but have apparently dismissed your case after talking to your husband - who has apparently told his GP he has hurt his children - who then apparently contacted ss?

I don't welcome social services in any way, but thought that if they were involved it might serve as the wake up call he needs to make him see the extent of his behaviour. I still get the feeling that he's trying to shift blame and not take full responsibility for what he's done over the course of nearly 11 years of marriage.

Could it be the wake up call you need to stop allowing your children to be abused? Can you take responsibility for not having kicked him out?

Sorry, I’ve just seen these replies. I posted last Monday saying that social services weren’t getting involved but they actually phoned me last Wednesday, and based on what I have said they have now visited us and spoken to us all individually. The social worker will visit the girls at school, and will aim to be involved for around 8 weeks.

I feel like I am going mad, though. My husband is maintaining the facade of a perfect human being - is he truly trying to change or just mess with my head? The kids are loving it and are lapping up all the attention. It’s more attention than they have ever had, so now of course I feel like queen bitch for still wanting to end things with him.

I don’t feel in control of anything - I don’t trust my husband, but he’s acting as if nothing is wrong; I am not in control of social services and how and when they will act. I am in limbo, and don’t know what to do!

When DD came upstairs to me, I vowed that I would never see that look on my DD's face again

This is what you need to remember.

Very true, buscaution. I feel my head is being totally messed around, butI need to hold onto those facts. Thank you.

He hurt your children?

I wouldn't leave him alone with them again.

Ever.

What are SS planning to do in those 8 weeks? Please tell me they are giving DH some parenting skills advice? I’m not trying to defend him in anyway. A friend of mine some years ago contacted SS for help during a marriage breakdown. She kept losing her shit and shouting at her kids. They gave her some really insight advice and guidance around her parenting and it really helped her. Has DH lost his way? Are there any redeeming features? I get a sense that you’re suspicious of his sudden turn around in behaviour and can’t trust that he won’t revert back to how he was once SS pull out.

Please don’t think this is a justification, fifi, but he has grabbed them (hard), he hasn’t hit them. I know that neither are okay - he has invariably denied it, however, and has always either turned it round to me, or told me I am exaggerating

I don’t fully know, minionmoma. They spoke to him on his own on Friday and he mentioned they talked a bit about how had parenting is. The main thing I want to ‘use’ them for is to get an independent and impartial view of how the children truly feel. I do know that my 7 year old mentioned dad’s anger when the social worker spoke to her on Friday.

No, I really don’t trust the turn around, but I really am queen bitch aren’t I, because he’s trying so hard and is making such an effort Ugh, the whole thing is horrible.

Oh @Fretful . What a shit situation you're in. Do you have any family or friends to talk to?

I have some friends, but everyone has their own shit to focus on don’t they? No family close by, though my parents are aware.

It is horrible. And it sounds as though the impartial perspective of SS re the situ is needed, because your voice doesn’t seem to be heard by him. That sucks.

Just read your other thread. You mentioned he may be depressed. If this is the case and his behaviour is attributable to depression/stress (I’m not condoning it) then if he was willing to genuinely seek help, then perhaps something could be salvaged here.

I think some sort of marriage/family counselling could also help. Could you afford this?

I think you need to be able to say to him that you are unwilling to return to how things were. He has to seek further help.

They do have their own shit to focus on but I absolutely would go to a friend with this and I'd do all I could to help if a friend came to me with similar. You need some support.

I contacted Relate yesterday, and based on what I said the lady didn’t think couples counselling would be appropriate, not until it’s clear husband has taken responsibility for past actions and is working on improving things. He certainly hasn’t taken responsibility for past actions yet. He is still denying the fear me and the children have felt from his shouting.

To be honest, I’m not sure he is depressed. The two GPs he saw don’t think he is either.

Ok. My husband NEVER hit my children with his hand. He even got them and me repeating that to anyone. He did grab them, throw them across the room, suffocate them, drown them and various other forms of abuse. I was the main earner and knew something was off when I came home but the children never said.

Eventually he left, taking one child with him (to get social housing but it didn't work). By this time he was the earner and I had given up work to look after my disabled son.

I took him back after two years because he 'realised' what he had lost, and what the family 'meant to him'. (I also needed money). He said that Elvis and You were always on my mind was what had provoked this turn around (it is a running joke with my now adult children).

8 weeks later he was back to abusing the children, but more openly now, and I had to wait another 10 months for him to leave for OW. We were having family counselling by this time and the children were really angry that the counsellors thought he was such a 'lovely man' when they were supposed to be able to spot abusive people and their controlling behaviours.

People don't change. They say they will but they won't. Why didn't he think you deserved THIS parent before? Because he is faking it to make it now. Once social services leave he will go back to his previous behaviours but may hide it better. May persuade your children to keep it a secret, like my husband did, with threats of violence and manipulating them into believing you are the devil etc. Don't let him.

I am so sorry to hear what you went through, muchalover. Your last paragraph has really resonated with me, and you are right of course. I need to remember how bad it has been and my determination to save them from that.

Thank you, thank you very much for sharing your story.

But you can divorce him anyway surely OP? Leave and take the kids if he won't move out himself. The house will be sold as part of the divorce and you can move forward. Ignore his frame of mind, be it bad or spookily good. Just crack on without further reference to him.

This is an awful situation for your kids. For you also. His 'nice' behaviour is designed to suck you all in. No wonder you're unnerved by it. It's the calm before the storm. People don't change that quickly. No way.

Can you look into getting an occupation order to make him leave the home? Women's aid can guide you there. I got one against my husband who was abusive and refused to leave. In the meantime, you need to separate from him emotionally and physically as much as possible within the home. Separate meals eaten separately. Don't cook for him. No laundry for him. No conversation beyond what's strictly necessary. It's the only way he will get the message that the marriage is over.

This reminds me of my ex-H.

He was (is still) a shouter, and he threw the DC, pulled hair and slapped. These were occasional incidents- not a regular thing. He always minimised / denied what he had done. He always behaved like the perfect parent in between episodes to persuade us that he was a good guy really. He always blamed everyone else for his behaviour. He point blank refused the idea of counselling or a parenting course.

We had been together for a very long time and it was hard to walk away. But I did it and I never regretted it. He wasn’t prepared to leave our house so I had to, and took the DC with me. I have lost my only hold on home ownership now and will be a renter forever. But I don’t care - it was worth it.

Your OP reminded me so much of how I felt in the months leading up to leaving my ex. I needed confirmation that it was the right thing to do. I needed someone to tell me “it’s ok, you are allowed to leave.”

I’m telling you that, now. It’s ok. You are allowed to leave. A whole new life awaits you.

I don’t know if he’s done enough to get an occupation order, though I’ll certainly look into it.

Thank you everyone. This is confirming my gut feeling and helping me see more clearly that, no, he hasn’t changed, not really. Also, how he was before is in no way good enough for any of us. My girls in particular deserve much better.

It’s still terrifying, and there’s lots to do, but I very much appreciate all your advice. Thank you.