Advice on helping DH and MILs relationship

[blackcat86]

I have been with DH for 4 years, married for 1 and we have a 7 week old baby. He has a teenage son from a previous relationship who stays regularly. We see the in laws every other weekend at least and more now dd is here. Although they can be hard work and need a lot of entertaining, their heart seems in the right place. Even before I was pregnant they were desperate to help with the baby as they feel they missed out with their grandson due to a poor relationship with mum. DH seems to want to see his parents but it always ends in him and MIL coming to blows. He'll be annoyed before she's even said anything, she'll make digs, he'll retreat to the garden/sulk/stomp around and I'll be left to entertain. Last night I snapped and told him it has to stop because the visits are too tense and the situation isn't good for anyone. MIL needs to be around to get to know dd if she's offering childcare (1 or 2 days when I go back to work) and dd has particular routines and ways of feeding (she's a special care baby). I suggested a few different things such as going to their place so he could leave when he wants, only seeing them when he's not there etc but it seems to come down to him being angry at the way she bigs him up to family only to put him down to his face. She also prioritises literally every other family member (I've seen her do this) despite DH having severe stomach issues last year and struggling with his mental health. He seems to want a relationship with both parents but something needs to change and he seems lost. What can I do to support him and their relationship?

Honestly? Stay the hell away and find a childminder to look after your DC when you go back to work! Their relationship doesn't sound good and forcing it just for the sake of free child care isn't going to help anyone. Do you really want to be around someone who puts your DH down all the time? How would you feel about her doing that when your DC is old enough to take it in?

Listen to your DH and support him. He is angry at his mum and doesn't want to be around her. Support him in that decision.

You can’t fix their relationship. They have to want to do it for themselves.

Suggest that the two of the go & have some joint counselling perhaps.

Think very carefully about taking up their offer of childcare. They don’t get on with their son. They didn’t get on with his ex. You don’t paint a great picture of her yourself. I would have an idea at least for another childcare provision. Adding in feeling beholden to her doesn’t sound like a good plan at this point.

It's nice that you want to help but you can't and shouldn't get involved unless your husband asks you for support.
You haven't been around long enough to question your husband's feelings for his mother. Even if he's wrong it's his mother, his decision.

Thanks everyone. If it was as simple as cutting her out I would 100% support his decision. The issue is that he will often invite both parents over for dinner or visits. He seems to crave the relationship despite how bad it goes. He'll call his mum with news and him and his dad will often have a DIY project on the go at our house or theres. The in laws also pick up his son every other weekend as they're retired and it enables them to visit family in the area. It's such a difficult situation. Also I'm not sure about not being around long enough to get involved....I'm his wife, we have a child, we live together. If I was going against what he wanted I could see a point there but this is directly impacting me and my child regularly. It's also not as simple as just paying for childcare. I talked about nursery but my mum shot it right down. Because both mum's have been childminders they've seen the good and bad. My mum actually said that if I put dd in nursery at 1yr she'd quit her job (which to be fair she doesn't like) and retire to help. It's great to have so much support but geeze that would really cause it with MIL. Sorry, I'm not trying to create barriers just add context.

Why the hell would you have her as a childminder!!! That’s strange.

Your the mum so put your kid in a nursery. You make the decision, not your dm or mil. Sounds like both of them would be rubbish childminders.

I should add that some of the poor relationship with his ex came from her not wanting to work, later boyfriend's hitting their grandson and her not intervening when he was skipping school. It started because she cheated and lied about DH paying child support causing him 5k of debt. I don't think they've offered as much support as they think they have and they all hold grudges from years ago but I can see why it was never going to be an amazing relationship.

I’d still choose a nursery over your family. They will poison your dc.

I'd be supporting him to see that his mum is never going to be who he wants her to be and to come out of the FOG and see a lot less of her.

You can see what she is really like. She is likely going to be a rubbish childminder for your special care baby who doesn't listen to advice.

Help your DH to separate from them and have an adult-adult relationship with them - no more DIY projects, no more childminding, fewer visits, lower expectations of what he will get back.

I think deep down i know he probably won't get anywhere without reducing contact but it makes me so sad for him. DM and MIL were both amazing with DD was in special care. She nearly died due to medical negligence and i was a wreck. I couldn't bring myself to leave her side and only slept 2 hours in 3 days when DM and MIL were with her. There's just something about DH and MIL that doesn't work. I wonder if I'm seeing the dynamic they had when he was a teenager?

From what you’ve said, mil is an absolute bitch to your dh. I have no idea why you would want her childminding your dd. I’d reduce visits drastically.

I agree with what everyone else has said.

I was in a similar position 15 years ago...if I could go back in time...

Given that sound like you will continue to use your MIL as a childminder I would do the following:

#1 Have a very strict boundary that you will not tolerate MIL badmouthing your DH at all. Stop it every time and say something really positive about him instead - show her that you will never tolerate it. Always challenge it.

#2 Never use her sound off normal moans about your DH. Nothing at all. Notice he has put his socks next to the laundry basket rather than in it when MIL is with you - just pick them up and put them in - say nothing to her about it.

#3 Be ready to swap to alternative childcare when (ok optimistically if) she starts being difficult. Reduce hours with her in favour of some nursery hours when your DD reaches certain ages, e.g 1, 18 mths, 2 etc. You will know when it is time.

#4 Don't try and mend their relationship by forcing everything. He's know her a lot longer than you...my DH (of his parents) has remarked many times 'I told you what they were like - you wouldn't believe me!'.

I’ve cut contact with my DM and my DH was disappointed as he’d lost his mother. It hurt me tgat despite knowing everything my DH didn’t see tgat I was happier and more relaxed without her.

This is when I learnt to ask questions that put a stop to it. Did he think my DM would ever change? He’d seen how she continued to hurt me and let me down and how it affected me, so why did he think I deserved for that to continue?

Likewise, I say to you to step back and let your DH take the lead on the relationship he has with his mother and help him to see that he shouldn’t have to put up with her shit just because she gave birth to him. Don’t use her for childcare.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Whilst i may not agree with everyone is posed some interesting questions that has helped me cement my own thoughts. I find it interesting that the focus is always on distance and not using her for childcare. The neighbours leave their kids with her, she has DHs cousins kids for week long stays regularly and another cousins younger child for the day. Whilst i would certainly monitor what was said without DH there I see no reason to write her off as a grqndparent before dd has even started getting to know her and been able to voice her own opinion. Of course at the faintest whiff of something I felt uncomfortable with I would put a stop to unsupervised visits. Also the comments have helped me to see that DH does need to be culpable for his reactions. No one mentioned this and I found myself dwelling on that. I don't care what happens with MIL and him, he is a secondary adult in the house, not a child. He needs to either not invite them over or deal with them in an adult way rather than shouting, throwing a strop or storming off leaving me with the baby and to presumably entertain the in laws. I have broached this with him and said that if he can't handle it, don't invite them over but don't start the visit and not finish it. Also I find his behaviour equally inappropriate when his teenage son is there as it's not modelling how to deal with a difficult situation which he also took on board. Sometimes you just need some different views to clarify your own.

A question OP- do you think it's the best thing for your daughter to have her father constantly under pressure due to a toxic relationship with his mother? No, he's not a child but how he feels matters and will impact you and your DD. You seem to think he can just snap out of it and change a lifetime of feelings. As the daughter of a woman who sounds a lot like your MIL I can assure you it's a lot more complex than that. And the damage starts way before you get 'the faintest whiff' of MIL talking badly about your husband to DD.

Your job isn't to placate MIL (incase she kicks off about your DM providing childcare) - your job is to do what's right for your own family in the long run

Indeed it is but DH will invite his parents over to our home for dinner or visits, then it inevitably ends in tears and me picking up the pieces. He is leading the relationship in that he invites them over but then disappears or gets annoyed. My view is either work on the relationship, don't invite them over or find another way like meeting them on mutual ground. Don't strop about and disappear leaving me with them and trying to care for a young baby. I want to support his choices but his choice of inviting them over and disappearing I feel is unfair on me and dd. I do understand difficult relationships. Mine with DM has been strained at times but I've worked through it. I certainly don't disappear half way through visits leaving DH to it. My view is the current situation isn't working for anyone. DH doesn't want to cut contact but I can't cope with the current situation

I should add that regarding childcare, free childcare with someone known to dd would of course be fabulous but I previously looked at nursery. I don't believe i am exclusively responsible for childcare because I'm the mum and have said to DH that if he doesn't want to use MIL or even DM that's fine but he would need either find a better paid role in the next few months before I return to work or ask for flexible working and be more involved in the day to day care of dd so I can go back on more hours. I earn more than DH so I don't think it's an unfair proposal. I'm not pushing for either options, just can't leave things as they are because it constantly leaves me sorting everything out and DH and MIL at each other without considering the impact on the family.

I can see how that is hard on you, OP. It sounds like your DH is still wrapped up in the FOG (fear obligation guilt) that he's striving for inclusion and approval even while knowing it's bad for him. Took me YEARS to see I was looking for approval that would never be forthcoming and yet I'd jump through hoops on a daily basis just to placate my mother for a quiet life - which of course never happened! Possibly becoming a parent again has exacerbated these feelings for your husband and he doesnt have the clarity of view to see that he can cut contact/meet on neutral ground. For me, becoming a parent actually snapped me out of the FOG because there is no way my son will grow up dancing to my mother's tune. She adores him and sees him very often but I have walked out and taken him home when she has thrown a strop about something.

In your shoes I would ease up on the visits - maybe make other plans for the day if your DH suggests a visit from them, take a big step back from discussing childcare arrangements (I honestly think it'd be a terrible idea using MIL for childcare) and try to bring a bit of distance to the whole thing. Then see how your husband is doing. Toxic Parents would be a great book for him to read. There's also a Toxic in-laws one

If course he’s going to still try to have a relationship and struggle to cope with it. Do you think your slightly strained relationship you’ve worked through with our own mother is compatible to his?

Society is set up that we must have a relationship with our parents no matter what and if we don’t it’s because WE have failed, not the parent.

He knows you want to use his mother for free childcare rather than supporting a clean break now.

When I reached breaking point in my own life, it was like a needed permission from my DH to make the changes needed. If those changes required me to make a big change to work when I wasn’t coping as things stood, it’d have been an extra barrier and if never haven’t done what was needed.

Personally I’d be asking him if he wouldn’t be happier without her being in his life so closely and that you’d support him if he wanted to either cut contact or just go to phone calls only and he visit her there so he can be in control and leave.

Having her in your lives for childcare would put an intolerable stain on your relationship that wouldn’t be worth the price if it were me. He needs things to be as easy as possible initially so he can escape the dynamics of that toxic relationship otherwise it won’t happen.

...oh and yes, this is massive peojection on my part having gone through the process with my mother and what I needed from my DH to be able to break the dynamic. I’d hadto change my head having been raised and conditioned to her for 45 years. It’s not easy and my DH helped.

If it doesn’t help so be it, but i shared just in case it would

I can understand where your DH coming from as I have difficult relationship with my parents as well. He wants to improve it, invites his parents ( =makes an effort) and then it seems like they don’t appreciate this, don’t behave appropriately and he’s frustrated.
He probably should be more realistic and plan shorter meetings ( and more structured) . He shouldn’t present each time or 100% when they are coming. He also might feel a little bit under pressure from you to invite them/ to have more intense relationship as you clearly think that it’s good for your DD. I found it very difficult during first 10 years of my marriage to explain to my DH why I was always so upset and tense before/during/ after my parents visits. Remember, your DH knows them much longer than you.
You are absolutely right, he is grown up and needs to behave like this to give his children a good example. I would focus on this, it’s sounds more positive.

I've spoken with DH again and tried to reiterate the impact of the situation on everyone and the need for change. His son is staying this weekend and DH has asked his parents to do the pick up and then come over with him despite me
suggesting this isn't a good idea. I've said that in that case I'll happily do dinner (they've had a 3hour round trip in rush hour traffic at 70yrs old so i think the least we can do is feed them so they can spend time with their grandkids) but after that I'm going to bed because I'll be up every 3 hours feeding the baby. He can then entertain his parents and be with his DS. I've suggested that if it gets too much he could say how tired we all are that he also wants an early night or just flat out ask them to leave. I've been clear that what I don't want to happen is for him to invite them over only to start kicking off, being rude and storming off. He acknowledged that a lot of the time he is angry before MIL even says or does anything out of the perception of what she might do. We've talked about steering the conversation or challenging her if she embellishes events but he struggles to do this in a non confrontational way. I've also been clear that he needs to direct what he wants to happen but I cannot live with it being as it is because it's causing me anxiety when he invites them over or I know his DS is coming transported by them, and i find the behaviour inappropriate especially in front of children but also disrespectful to me. I won't tolerate verbal abuse or aggression in my marriage regardless of the source. Ive suggested we could pay for counselling for him which he says he wont do and he also wont confront his mother. He says he feels last on the whole families list of prioritises as there have been times he's been unwell and its been brushed off by them. He could cut them both out tomorrow and i would support that but he clearly finds them fit to transport his DS which is a long standing arrangement given the distance and that his ex won't contribute to transport at all. My DM has actually now given up work so childcare really isn't an issue anymore. If MIL doesn't do it I'm not bothered but again that wouldn't make sense if they're then running around transporting his DS and seeing DD when they're here anyway. He can't have his cake and eat it and I think the lack of consistency is adding to the situation and my anxiety. I appreciate a point he made that I may have a more black and white view of the situation but I feel like unless I push for change it will just stay the same. It's already been 4 years and I feel pushed to breaking point having only just recovered from a c section and with a new baby. I guess I'll just have to see what this weekend brings.

What a fantastic update. You do clearly lacks the skills he needs to cope better. You’re giving him ideas and holding him accountable so it’ll be make it break from here on in. Well done.

Whatever the state of his relationship with his parents, your DH's behaviour when they do something that annoys him is unacceptable. Shouting, crying and storming off are the reactions of a toddler not a grown man. What's he like when you and he disagree or argue? Does he act in the same emotionally unstable way? My mother would try the patience of a saint, and two of my siblings are fully no-contact with her, but I've developed a way of just about coping with her by using humour and basically laughing at her when she comes out with the veiled insults and put downs (it's like a compulsion with her). The phrase that we can't change the behaviour of others but we can change how we react to it is a common one on MN. He needs to develop some coping strategies, perhaps you could practise with him? If this has always been how their relationship is played out, changing his reactions could take a while but it can be done.

Sometimes he'll take the role of MIL when we argue and either struggle to acknowledge my position, try to make it comparative (well I'm more tired, stressed etc) or will storm off. Other times he's quite rational. Often he'll make a snap judgement but then on reflection be more rational once he's mulled it over or seen that I'm upset. He''s chosen some poor partners in the past who have treated him badly so he often feels the need to be quite defensive in my view. His family also have some out dated views on being a 'real man' which leak into our arguments.