Children exhausted and ill after contact with dad

[PerverseConverse]

My daughters are 11 and 9 and every time they come back from weekend contact with their dad they are exhausted and feel ill. They are going to bed there between 10.30 and midnight when they have an 8pm bedtime at home. They have missed school due to this on a few occasions. My ex in the past has told me it's none of my business and that they're bedtime at home is too early. I think it's very much my business if they are so tired they feel ill and miss school the next day but I don't know how to solve this problem. There is a court order in place and they have to go to contact. What can I do?

Are they often out in the evening or just at home? Is the 11 year old at secondary, just wondering if she could impose her own bedtime..at 11/12 by dc were struggling to sleep at 8pm and 9ish seems to be when they could sleep.

If it's eow you may need to just push through it with them. Get them to school Monday AM and either they will feel lousy for the day or cope. Over time they will learn to get the sleep they need.

Do they enjoy time with their Dad? Is the break up recent? I know its tough but at least they are older so more likely this will be less of an issue in the future.

School can help if they believe lack of sleep is impacting education and could mention it at parents evening. This might be the most effective way.

If its EOW then it might be a case of riding it out and it will get easier.

We spilt up 5 years ago and this is a regular thing. They miss one day on average a term due to exhaustion. I've tried to get them to self regulate but they are sharing with many other children who keep them awake. At home they fall asleep quickly and need 11 hours a night for the youngest and 9.5-10 for the oldest. They cope for awhile without that but then become ill.
Eldest now at secondary school so loads of homework and the work load in general is much greater so is really tired. At dad's they do physical activities in the evening on one night and are late back, the other night is just being left on devices until midnight. Move explained to both schools exactly why they are off today and have a GP appointment to cover my back as otherwise I'll be accused of lying about this.
They would prefer not to go to his at weekends as they hate his girlfriend.
It's a really shit situation.

What do you mean thry are sharing with many other children?

When do they visit dad's?
Do they go Friday nights, Saturday nights and Sunday nights?
Does he take them directly to school Monday?

I'm guessing as they're off today he does them home Sunday night. One night self regulation, one night late activities

They go Friday after school to Sunday night.
His girlfriend has 5 other kids so they share beds as not much room.

It sounds pretty typical to me, most kids have late nights at weekends, early night on a Sunday ready for school.

But if it's making them ill then maybe contact order needs changing using GP letters as evidence.

How often do they stay there?
I'd be telling him that those sleeeping arrangements do not work any longer and what is his plan longer term

11 and 9? I'd be going back to court as this is an age where the court will start to take their wishes into account.

Are you wanting us to give you ideas on how to block his contact?

Because that is what it seems like here

No advice I'm afraid, but I've been dealing with the same for years. It's bullshit.

How old do they have to be to start excersising their own choices as per the courts?

Gillick competency....around 11. Depends on the individual child really, and it's for extreme cases more than ' I have to share a bedroom' type complaints

Whilst I agree that 8pm is a very early bedtime (especially for the 11 year old) between 10.30pm and midnight is far too late on a school night. I'd expect between 9.00-9.30pm.

To be honest though I'd see the sharing beds as much more of a problem than the actual bedtimes

So who are your 9 and 11 year old daughters sharing a bed and room with?

No idea if court can do anything about it but that would be my concern.

If they slept at a decent time on the night they self regulate (ear phones?) they'd be less exhausted and the oldest at least is old enough to understand that.

They have always had early bedtimes as they need their sleep. Eldest is up at 6.30 for school so needs to be in bed for 8. I do let them stay up later st weekends but 9 at the latest.
They share beds with the gf's kids. 7 kids in 2 bedrooms. They hate it.

I do understand that. Dd is 16 and is still in bed by 9.30pm on college days.

They would prefer not to go to his at weekends

They are old enough to state this and to be listened to.

Could they visit during daytime only and not stay over? or would they not want to do that either?

contact with their father is for the benefit of the child - they are not getting much benefit at all from this arrangement are they?

I'd follow the kids wishes. If ex took it to court I'd say inappropriate provision for sleeping facilities. Sleep is a basic need and he is not providing for his DC.

Can they spend the day eow and bin off the overnights?

Was the bed sharing going on when the orders were made?

Ok they are tired, but when you say ill what do you mean?

If the OP's children are anything like my dd (which it sounds like they are) then when she hasn't had enough sleep she goes white as a sheet, gets blinding headaaches and nausea (even vomiting occasionally)

There certainly seems to be no benefit Hissy.
Bert cafcass knew about the bed situation and visited and said it was fine because dad lied and said the gf's kids were never there.

The gf is alienating them from me by telling all sorts of lies.

By ill I mean that kind of ill you feel when you are so tired you can't keep your eyes open, you feel sick, dizzy, stomach aches, headaches. Too tired to function and just need to sleep.

Dad has said he's going for residency now as sees them not going as ill as a breach of the order. Beds have been ordered now apparently.

Let him. Or you take him back yourself.
Court orders aren't designed to last for the entire childhood. Needs change. The children change. Go back to court with the new info, with your children's opinions and try to end overnights.

He will need to prove beds have been ordered (or delivered by that point) and the children can speak for themselves and tell how they need to share beds and don't want to go etc.

I'd go back to court as your DC are old enough to now have a voice. A weekend in a house with 7 children doesn't sound remotely relaxing, and certainly not conducive to sleep.

My youngest is 20 and is still asleep in bed weeknights by 10pm for a 7am start. She's dreadful without sleep, always has been.