wanting to see less of the ILS after DH passed away

[ProbablyUngrateful]

I have been reading mumsnet for years but I have just joined today because I need to talk about this to someone but I can't talk to anyone in real life because I know it is wrong of me to feel this way and I know how ungrateful I sound but at the same time I feel like I need to at least talk this through with someone.

Dh passed away 6 months ago. It was really sudden and admittedly I didn't cope very well in the first couple of months. I found the DCs tough to deal with and I wasn't there for them as much as I should have been.

The ILs were really good to us during this time. The often picked the younger two DCs up from school for me and looked after the DCs when I had stuff to sort out even though they were trying to deal with the loss of their son.

They were an excellent support during the school holidays when we were all struggling with the lack of routine and I really am so very grateful and pleased to have them. But the school holidays was also the time were the DCs started to complain about going to the ILs all the time. They started to say that it was boring and all MIL wants to do is talk about DH but they don't want to do that all the time.

I politely mentioned to the ILs that the younger two DCs were going through a phase of not wanting to talk about DH as much anymore, as it was upsetting them so maybe if the DCs were starting to get upset could the ILs distract them with something else to take their mind off it. MIL was really upset with me and she told me that it was ok for me because I could find a new husband but that she wouldn't have another son and the DCs wouldn't have another dad and that I didn't understand.

I tried to be understanding and explained that no-one would ever replace DH for me and Mil apologised a couple of days later.

As time has gone on I have found myself more able to cope and I decided that in September we would start to get back to "normal". I have gone back to work part time and restarted the volunteering I do one evening a week. I am making sure that the DCs are attending school everyday and that they have proper support in place.

Initially I offered to put the DCs in childcare while I was in work. However MIL was adamant that they want to help out so we decided that when I was in work the ILs would pick the DCs up from school.

However it is causing a few issues. The younger two are still saying that they don't want to go and find it boring. DD2 (5) really want to go to the afterschool club. She used to go everyday while DH was still alive, all her friends go and she is very social and active and she finds the ILs house boring. She also keeps getting angry with them because they only want to talk about sad things.

ILs also aren't disciplining the younger DCs at all DD1 (12) says that anything they do the ILs just dismiss as them missing their dad and just have cuddles and sweets till they feel better. I have also had problems with DD2 at school as she keeps doing bad things (hitting, calling others names, not doing as she is told) and when she is pulled up by the teachers she says that it isn't her fault as she is missing her dad. Initially the school were sympathetic but after a while they realised that she seems to be using it as an excuse to do what she likes.
I have noticed this happening more at home too and when I talked to her about she told me that MIL said that it was ok because she doesn't mean it she just misses her dad.

DD1 is also struggling with going to see them all the time. She says that she feels a bit awkward around them because MIL is always saying things about DH that weren't true (for example saying DH was amazing at football and cooking when he wasn't). She would rather get the school bus home and be in the house by herself till I get there. However she also doesn't want to hurt ILs feelings especially because she is DHs step daughter and even though she has always been treated like one of their family she still worries about upsetting them and the ILs not liking her anymore.

MiL is still being very demanding about wanting to see the DCs and asking us to visit on the day were I'm not working because she misses us. I know that I am really awful for saying this because she just wants to be close to her grandkids after losing her son . But sometimes I want time with just me and the DCs. But if we have plans she invites herself to join us and if we don't have plans she comes to visit us at home. FIL has asked me to just go with it because she just wants to feel close to the kids but I am finding all a bit too much.

Before Dh died we used to see PILs once every two weeks, and I am happy to see them more often than that now but we saw her for 13 days in a row and today when I promised the DCs a day with just us and told MIL that we were sorting out the house and not to visit and that we would see her on Monday. She still came round today "just to pop in" and then she stayed all afternoon.

I just don't know what to do because if I ask to see less of them or if I stop the DCs going to theirs after school and let them do what they want then MIL is going to be very upset. They have helped us so much and I feel so horrible saying it but it just feels like it's too much and I know I need to suck it up after all that they have done for us but at the same time I don't know how to stop myself from getting annoyed.

I'm worried that I might cause another argument and upset everyone but the more they visit the more annoyed I get and I know thats really horrible after everything. But I can't seem to help feeling this way and I don't know how to stop it.

Your feelings are perfectly understandable. Your husband would want for you and the children to get on with your lives.

I don't know how to handle your in laws, but I hope someone will come along and post some practical suggestions.

Thank you for replying
I am sorry it's so long I just got carried away and once I started I couldn't stop.

I am a mother who has lost my adult son.
I feel for all of you in this very sad situation.
I think your PIL need to access some support outside the family. Compassionate friends is an organisation that they might find helpful. Losing a grown up child is the very worst loss. But your DC cannot support their grandparents through this.
Your DC need to grieve in their own way, as do you.
I am so sorry for your loss.

Oh my goodness, this is a very tricky situation for you. I think you're right in wanting to see less of them because their grieving process is very different to your DCs. That's the one thing that sticks out for me. The ILs want to talk about him all the time and cling to all the memories. The DCs want to get on with things... which doesn't mean they don't miss him terribly of course, but they need to be able to do it in their own time and in their own way.

Can you say the youngest has specific clubs to go to? Or extra help with maths / English for example, so she needs to stay at school.

I don't think you should actually say you to their faces that you want to see less of them, that would be very hurtful. Can you say a grief counsellor / pastoral carer at school has said they need to lead the conversations and that MIL should not talk about their father until they raise it?

And invent some more excuses for quiet time at home without her. Playdates, again, extra schoolwork. If she turns up, leave her on her own for a bit. Make your DCs come upstairs with you to check school clothes or something. Sorry, running out of ideas.

Have some . You deserve lots of TLC yourself.

Could you find a distraction for your mil? Charity work? May make her feel useful if it was something connected to your dh's cause of death especially..
It isn't fair on anyone she is living her life through yours +your dc.
You may have to be cruel to be kind of it persists. Your dc (and youself) must be your priority.

I’m so so sorry about your loss. You’ve been through so much, I can’t imagine

No advice at all but your children need you to do the best by them. Yes, you’re all grieving, but they’re the children in this and they’re telling you what they need which is time with you, time with friends and at school, independence getting the bus, time not talking about dad all the time while they come to terms with what’s changed, honesty about who he was as a person (who was a bad cook ), boundaries about acceptable behaviour. You have needs too. Time just you and the kids. Your home to yourself.

It doesn’t make you cruel or ungrateful to establish a new way of all existing together. 13 days on the trot is a lot. It’s not sustainable. Your MIL has suffered a terrible tragedy but she can’t expect your children to distract her from dealing with her pain.

Your feelings are understandable. So are hers. Ultimately though your first responsibility is to your kids.
I would suggest to PIL that the kids to back to theirs once a week or once a fortnight. But return to normal routine (after school club or whatever) aside from that. You could say their school have suggested it to help them and you need to try it. It’s okay to have boundaries about your weekends, too.

As PP’s said, PIL need support from outside family. As do you; a good grief counselling w will have experience helping other clients traverse the changed family dynamics after bereavement. Mine helped me a lot with this kind of thing. It’s also a good example to your kids, to see the adults in their lives accessing talking therapies and support groups. That pitch might help encourage MIL to attend something.

Have you joined WAY?

(Fellow wid’ here)

I'm sorry for your loss OP. I work in bereavement services and the death of a child (even in adulthood) is so traumatic. I hope they can access some support too. It is so hard because we all grieve loss of a loved one in different ways and at different speeds and we can't (but people often do) use children as a way to process or avoid pain. I wonder if that's a conversation worth revisiting? It sounds like whilst your DH is irreplaceable of course, in order to heal you and the children need a balance between remembering and being present- focused.

I do think I would consider finding a counsellor if you could possibly afford It just to be able to make up stuff as coming from them (you would need private sessions with you as well as in a family so the dc can’t dob you in!) say the dc can’t behave like that anymore and the pil can’t bring him up the way they do- they are children and need happy things in their life. Can you get some dvds and games and drip them to in laws to make the time their more fun as well as sign them up for clubs etc? The counsellor could even ‘recommend dd return to aftercare, it would be good for her healing’
I wouldn’t say they don’t want to see you but i would say the counsellor has said they need to live life, and part of the challenge with this for dc is not their own willingness to do this but being surrounded by grieving adults , so it’s the adults job to make sure the dc feel they have permission to have fun.
Re mil imagining dp was good at things, laugh it off. mil thinks the sun shines out of my dp, I imagine if dc were a bit uncomfortable with blatant delusions I’d laugh and say I’m sure I will think you are that wonderful when I don’t have to live with you any more! (Although it drives me crazy)
Hugs op , so difficult to manage.

I'm very sorry for your loss and that you're now having to deal with this further situation that is really tough.

I think that I would arrange a time to talk to them and say that you have been advised to resume a more normal routine for the children and that they must be able to get on with their lives as much as possible.

This avoids being critical of the way your MIL is dealing with the children. I think you will need to be quite specific about how often you will see them, maybe organising a specific day once a fortnight or by saying clearly that you want to make sure you still see them at least once a fortnight.

It's really really important that the children can resume their lives as normal and still have boundaries in place re behaviour etc. You clearly already know that but if enough people say it to you it might give you the validation to have the difficult conversation.

You are not being unreasonable and you don’t need to suck it up. 13 days on the trot is too much! She’s going to have to find other things to do and other people to lean on. You and the kids need peace and space to grieve together, alone. You need time to adjust to your new normal. Speaking as somebody who had lost a child, it would have driven me insane to be surrounded by family constantly. You just need routine sometimes. Your kids have to be able to do what they want. Book your dc into after school club. It’s what they want. I’m afraid you will have to be firm about it. I suggest finding a bereavement counsellor and passing on those details. Your DC can’t be her emotional crutch. It’s not fair on them.

Wow i really feel for you all. My dh died very traumatically in February and im so grateful that my ILs haven't behaved like this.

Every bereavement is different is what people say to me. But you are still your children's mother and your kids are not replacements for her son. They deservd to be able to live their lives without expectations of how they should grieve.

I would sit down and decide on a plan - maybe a weekly evening mealwith the ILs - i would avoid weekends, Monday night might be a good one. You need to be there too. Afterschool club and home time for your dcs as seems right to you.

Then go round to your ILs alone and explain as compassionately as you can that the children need to start a new stage now and things are going to be different. It's bound to be an emotional discussion, perhaps angry, and thete's nothing to be done about that. It's just something you have to do for their grandchildren. What they are doing has the potential to actively harm the kids.

What they then do about their grief is very hard to think about - if ds dies before me i will be devastated. But they cannot stunt the children's development like this.

Avoid weekends because they tend to be full of parties, meetups, fun stuff.

Dont say that a counsellor advised you to do this. Establish that you make the decisions about your children's wellbeing and nobody else.

My son's school counsellor had been amazing. They might need a break from talking about it at the mo, but meeting with anyone like this would be a good idea for you to know whats on offer for them.

I have no experience in this area at all but wondered if you choose to approach it with MIL could you go from the angle of being concerned for her, that you are worried she isn't addressing her grief, and like someone else said then factor in that the kids have expressed through various communications what they need and you need to put them first too. Perhaps it would cushion the blow?

Very best of luck. And don't push your grief out of sight either whilst trying to keep everyone else afloat.

I what a difficult situation.
I agree with Annandale, you need a plan, and then you need to tell them the plan.
Without saying you need to see less, but focus on the kids and that they need to grieve their way, and their way right now is to get back to the routine they had before.
I would raise the issue of no discipline, by using the school example, that dd is trying to use dh to get away with bad behaviour and dh would have hated that, so we need to help her by being normal, ie, if she is naughty, she gets punished.

Offer clear plan as to how and when they will see the dgc, and how important they are to the dgc lives, but they want their own lives too. Be firm about needing family time without them, as that is 'normal' and you need to get back to 'normal'

You need to do what is best for your children and you and if it causes upset for the inlaws then they will have to deal with that .

Mil is obv very clingy. Maybe enlist FiL's help with diverting her?

Ultimately, if she gets upset, she needs to deal with that. Whilst it makes things awkward for you, your DC are the priority & they do need to not be burdened by her grief.

I wouldn't come up with ideas about their grief, counsellors, charity work etc. How they grieve is not your responsibility. Your own functioning and your children. That's enough.

I'm having therapy which helps me enormously.

I 100% agree that you either find (or invent) a grief counsellor for yourself, and frame the changes you want to make as coming from them.

Remember that it’s fine to have this counsellor to yourself, as your ‘safe space’, and keep their details private. In case the PILs love the idea and want in on her/him.

I’d think of it as: your dynamic with the PILs was one way for years, then another way during the raw grief weeks, now it moves to a third way. Perfectly natural.

Oh gosh op how tricky. You have received some great suggestions. The idea of a weekday meal could be good if your pils like to cook, they could spend a few days planning and buying the food as a distraction? Also be aware that the first Xmas without dh, first anniversary of his birthday and his passing will all be tricky to navigate as you may want to mark those days in very different ways. My sil found it v hard after her mum died as fil, dh and bil just wanted to grieve privately whereas she needed to talk and commemorate a lot. It is give and take though and one person cannot set the agenda for how everyone else around them grieves. There needs to be respect for the different grieving styles and this could be a point you could make to mil. You are respecting her, she needs to respect you and dcs.
Good luck for setting the new normal in place, remember mn is always here for you

I have no ideas but I do hope things get better soon for you. . I would like to think this is just a short period of adjustment for you all.

Hi op, are the kids having counselling? My dad died when I was 5 and I did the same as your young dd. I was angry and lashed out. I didn't understand death, where my dad had gone, I was angry at a situation I had no control over. My mum never organised counselling and I would have really benefited.

The best thing for me was being around people who gave me affection, happiness and normality. I can't imagine being stuck with IL's talking about being sad all the time. It sounds like after school club would be really good for your dd.

Try to let your kids have some choice over their routine. Remember that everything has been out of their control and giving them some control back may be really helpful.

I think you also need to keep in mind that whilst it's likely that there will be a level of upset however you broach it, that will actually be a reflection of their grief. As awful as it sounds, she will likely ultimately respect your request as she clearly needs to see the children and will fear no contact. And I think as long as you stay calm and explain why, once she's had a little time to think about it and it sinks in that the children's needs are greater, she will hopefully understand better.

Hi op I’m sorry for your loss.
I disagree with the comments on making up grief counselling and saying the changes are from them.
I know it may be hard but you need to as honestly and gently as you can start setting some boundaries. Your dc aren’t happy about it and you are doing it for them.

I think getting back to what feels normal is best. I would put the little one in after school club and let the eldest make her own way home. Arrange a set day that suits everyone to visit in laws. Tell them the kids have asked to get back to normal.