This question is for the men of MN...

[FreshairFriday]

If your partner told you they were unhappy in the relationship would you consider seeing a therapist to work on yourself personally? I don't necessarily mean instead of couples counselling but perhaps in addition to it, in order to learn more about yourself and how you function in the world? It strikes me that often, by the time a woman says she's ready for divorce, she's already done a lot of this personal processing and any complaints about the relationship have been ignored/passed over by the man along the way. So that when she says she's ready to leave him, he often only just begins serious processing - if at all. I guess I'm looking to hear that there are men who give a shit. When I got divorced my lawyer told me that in her office 80% of divorces are initiated by women & that 100% of them have a degree of mental health issues. It makes me feel very sad. My own exdh wasn't interested in therapy. He said 'If you've got a problem, that's your problem'. I spent a year in counselling/therapy working on myself before I left. It'd be so nice to hear that there are men out there who would want to do something about it if their wives weren't happy. And I don't mean bending completely to the will of their wives but being able to look at the issues objectively & be willing to work on them.

I don’t even know what “work on yourself personally” or learning “how you function in the world” actually means. It’s just flannel.

^When I got divorced my lawyer told me that in her office 80% of divorces are initiated by women & that 100% of them have a degree of mental health issues.

What does your peer-reviewed research say?

My exW left me because she’d started fucking her boss. I don’t remember too many opportunities to “rescue” the situation.

The only complaint she had was that I didn’t earn enough to allow her to sit on her arse and not work (not exactly how SHE phrased it, obviously). She wouldn’t consider counselling but I did some by myself - two 30 min sessions. Can’t say they helped much.

Well I'm in therapy to find out why I can't even get a girlfriend so if I had one there would be no hesitation on my part :)

I suggested counselling with DW several years ago. She refused. So I did it myself, it did help, but not with the situation which has festered for yearsand will eventually destroy our marriage.

If she asked me to go, after picking myself up from the floor, Id jump at it.

It's very sad if a wife checks out & starts screwing someone else Changedname I didn't say all females are perfect. But if your life partner says 'I'm not happy because'... wouldn't you want to listen & try to make things better?

When I announced divorce after a year of solo therapy because the ex wouldn't come, he told me 'the only person I ever really loved was my mum'. He just wasn't interested. It killed me because we'd been together for over 20yrs but I couldn't stay any longer with someone who just didn't give a shit. It was so painful.

I’m a strong proponent of male self improvement- but the journey is often hard. The first steps are to do with reflection and self awareness, owning your own shit and not being a burden on others and especially your partner. But many men live their lives in an extended childhood state and I guess your experience reflects that?

Unfortunately in many marriages the wives explicitly don’t express what they need from DH - as if it just gives the game away - so they hint and then push back (eg I want you to take more responsibility..,,not like that like this and this - oh just forget it I’ll do it!) and men get understandably confused.

It I think your experience sounds like with someone at the first base - unaware of himself beyond his own needs. Room for a lot of growth I guess.

The answer isn’t to expect your fella to “grow”. The answer is to pick a different man in the first place.

That’s a fair point crop- but people are always becoming someone - we are never completely formed. Good parents still learn their skills and make mistakes along the way - as do partners. But you don’t want to pick someone who is far behind you on the journey.

I think everyone needs to work on themselves therapy or not. My ex refused therapy. In the end it was the end of us

Wow this is a bit close to home. My wife and I are separating and whilst I was prepared to go to counseling, which we did for one session before she found it too difficult, I can't help feeling it was too late. She's already checked out but looking back she did make the effort to save things by suggesting date nights and warning me about how her feelings can change if I don't buck up. And here we are now with me leaving the family home in a couple of weeks. It's all very sad and as tempting as it is to regret I hope to learn from the experience and take forward into any future relationships.

I actually signed up to MN to get a better insight into the mindset of women and honestly speaking it's been a revelation. At the same time reading some of the horror stories in here about certain men I don't feel like such a crap husband after all. An ignorant one maybe but not like some of the sociopaths I hear about in here.

When my marriage was in trouble, I suggested counselling. It gave my ExW an opportunity to complain at length about some of my irritating habits while I listened patiently in silence and she concealed the fact that she had being having an affair for some years. I eventually twigged and ended both counselling and the marriage.

Multiple men I have met over the years have basically told me their tale of regret of ignoring their partners/wives and suddenly realising it was too late, and no going back. They saw with painful hindsight everything they overlooked and all the signs, but at the time self improvement seemed like a lot of hard work and also they held onto hope ‘things would work out in the end’

I am also the woman who told her partner a year before that if things do not change we would have to end, and nothing changed except me. I gave him many opportunities he took none of them and then was shocked when I did a year of counselling then left him

I think there is a unhealthy dose of optimism and childish naivety in men sometimes that they hear things but don’t listen, and that a lot of these things are just part and parcel of life and will resolve, almost magically over time somehow. I think women make the mistake of seeing exactly who their partner is but holding onto hope that kids/marriage/love will change that man. Suddenly the hope runs out

Interesting Pookie, switch the spouses around and your last paragraph describes my marriage.

I was willing to try and did for years. The hope has nearly gone though.

Peoples shouldn't marry the future version of a person, they should marry the person of the present.

Also this:
Unfortunately in many marriages the wives explicitly don’t express what they need from DH
His has been my personal experience.
Last long term partner split with me because she met someone else. But it was my fault for being boring, my fault for not doing enough fun things.. tho she never once suggested fun and exciting things to do.

Yeah it can totally be the other way round. Whereas I don’t think it’s exclusive to sex, I do think it’s more common for women to actively want men to constantly be evolving, self aware, adapt themselves and for men to think there is absolutely no need for it and only realise what’s happened when it’s too late. It’s a real gender issue that women can be seen as ‘nagging’ when they are simply asking for respect and support. But also Agree. Too many relationships begin on unrealistic ground. If a partner is selfish, stingy and emotionally closed off it’s doubtful you will be the person to convince open up their eyes to what you want them to see. Humans don’t work like that. You can’t polish a turd 😛

True, you can't polish a turd.

But you can roll it in glitter!

Sorry.

I can't imagine many people respond well to being told that they should have therapy in order to change into the person their spouse wants them to be.

Couples therapy to rescue a marriage, yes.

But if dp told me I needed therapy to learn more about myself and 'how I function in the world' I think I would have to tell him to fuck off. It smacks of laying all the blame for any relationship issues at one door.

I can't imagine many people respond well to being told that they should have therapy in order to change into the person their spouse wants them to be.

No, and if the thread about shaving legs is anything to go by then a partner shouldn't even ask simple t things.

I think a lot of women are quite complex, more so than the majority of men, get the closeness etc, we then find them needy, too nice and they lose sex appeal, you get the drift

If my marriage was having problems then I would definitely be willing to give couples counselling a go. DW would be the reluctant one in our relationship, I suspect.

As I’ve got older I have realised I don’t want a glittery turd or a polished one, if someone isn’t what I deem to be the right fit for me then I wouldn’t invest 20 years and 3 kids into them, but age, loneliness, poor boundaries, upbringing etc all shape your views on what a relationship is about. I am a woman and I find it frustrating listening to other women trying to change men when they suddenly realise there are compatibility problems, by placing the blame onto the man.
I mean none of this excuses abuse or DV of any kind and I don’t think that’s what we are talking about.

People hugely underestimate how kids affect relationships too