Adult DS1 raised his hand to me

[PatsyCatsy]

Sorry this is so incredibly long. Complex situation and don't want to dripfeed.

I have two sons, 23 and 26. My DH died when they were still at primary school. DS2 reacted in a normal way to bereavement. DS1 seemed OK for 15 months but then cracked up. He became a complete recluse. The NHS was useless. I got relentless pressure about his school attendance. But he wasn't just missing school, he was locked in his dark bedroom (often sobbing) pretty much 24/7. He thought of suicide daily during this period.

This went on for two whole years. We got no help of any sort. We later got an apology from CAMHS.

DS1 only recovered enough for home tuition at 14, by which time it was too late to rescue his GCSEs. School was never likely to be easy for him as he has the most severe 10% of dyslexia and the top 1% of intelligence. His DF's death was the final straw.

Since he was 18 he has only had two real jobs . Neither lasted 6 months. He's had the odd day cash in hand but that's all.

He has no money so pays no keep. He won't sign on for benefits because he gets desperately anxious. However this is a real burden for me - and his DB I am unable to work due to ill health and living on £700 a month. Out of that I feed DS1 and his girlfriend who is here 5 nights a week. We wouldn't be able to keep the house going if it weren't for DS2, who has a good job he enjoys and gladly pays his way.

18 months ago DS1 wrecked the ground floor of our house in a state of alcoholic psychosis. He smashed lots of stuff and ripped the back door off its hinges. It was terrifying. The police were wonderful. He's very big and strong, though I have never feared he would hit me.

After that he was very remorseful for weeks. He has not got drunk since. But I have become increasingly troubled that he's going to end up at 40 still squatting in my basement.

Life Is just passing him by. I try to get him to discuss both his future and the money every few months. There are always promises but nothing actually changes.

I reached a decision over the summer that it was bad for all of us to put up with this any longer. I told him he needed to get a job and prepare to move out.

So to today:

My Sky box has been bust for weeks and the engineers arrived this morning. When I took them into the TV room my TV had gone. Turns out DS1 had taken it and had screwed it to the wall. He refused to unscrew it. Said it was too difficult.

The Sky engineers had to leave. They can't come again for over a month. I was furious.

I was remonstrating with him, with him shouting at me through his locked bedroom door. He lives in the basement and none of us are allowed in. Eventually he came to the door and held it half open.

Then, when I shouted at him again, his hand came out very quickly and he slapped my arm. It didn't hurt or make a mark. I'm not frightened. What I am is totally shocked.

I feel this is a massive step in the wrong direction. I can't overlook this.

He hotly denies that he has any MH issues. However I have been operating his whole adult life on the basis that his MH is very poor, with severe depression and anxiety. If I am wrong and he's fine, his treatment of me would be appalling.

I feel he is immensely vulnerable. It worries me sick, plus the situation is so unfair on his DB.

DS2 plans to move out in the next 9 months. He would rather stay at home and save money towards a deposit for a place (he pays less here than rent would be) but he just can't tolerate DS1's behaviour.

I'm going to have to kick DS1 out, aren't I?

You need to write a letter explicitly saying 'I am making my son homeless on x date' and tell him to take it to the council they will help but they need that letter from you. It's awful but it's what has to happen now

What NewYoiker said. Once he is actually homeless they will put him on a priority list for housing. He may have to move into temp accommodation. Until then it's unlikely he will get housed (depends on your area - do you know what the typical wait for council housing is?)

At the risk of sounding rude, I think you need to be tougher with him and stop making excuses for him. I understand the context for the situation (as have gone through something very similar myself), but there comes a time where the past can't dictate the future or scapegoat behaviour. He sounds violent. Get him some help, and tell him to move out. He needs a wake up call.

My step-son was told to move out due to similar disrespectful behaviour. When he started to understand what it took to run a home and how expensive it was, he soon moved back with a better attitude (and a job!).

I have adult children. They are adults! I have severe MH problems and understand how people can put their head in the sand due to anxiety....but, it has got to a point where you have been enabling him. He HAS to apply for the money he is entitled to, and start realising how much life costs as to be brutal what happens when you are no longer here to enable him? He has disrespected your belongings, your generosity, you. You need to give him a letter detailing the exact date he needs to leave, he can show this to the council housing dept. Stop feeding them both. Stop treating him like he's a child as he is not. Losing loved ones affects people differently; I'm sorry to hear he was floored with it years ago and got no support from CAMHS but, again, HE can get support as an adult if HE goes to gp etc. Keep thinking that you are helping him by doing this when you feel bad, because you are - oh, and if he is as intelligent as you say then that can help he be extremely manipulative and you need to see that this is in his best long-term interest. It's not saying you don't love him or don't care to say you will not put up with such behaviour. If you love somebody you show them with your behaviour and he is not doing. You KNOW this. Good luck.

TheBouquets I can see you point of view, but I'm not welcome to go there!

She doesn't want the boat rocked, and wouldn't/can't tell him to leave. She feels his behaviour is her fault for the environment we were brought up in & his dsylexia.

All I can do is offer a safe space and try to be a voice of reason when she allows me to.

I hope it goes okay with the eviction. I absolutely think it's the right thing to do.

I'm worried about your safety. He's proven he can be violent, with and now potentially without alcohol, and as far as he is concerned his most important safety blanket, his home, is being pulled out from under his feet.

Please go and speak to the police about the possibility that he will be violent and/or destructive. You might be able to get a panic button that summons the police immediately and silently. You might be able to get a marker put on your house, so if you ring 999, they know not to delay getting there.

I'd also research what needs to happen for somebody to get sectioned.

Please also ban alcohol from your house, if you haven't already. Tell his gf this directly so she doesn't bring it in.

Is it worth gong to CAMHS again now, or a charity like Mind, and expressing your concerns and theories and see if there is anything they can advise?

Creativemumma. I had not realised that your DM does not want you to rock the boat. I am glad that you offer your DM a safe place. I will have to find my own safe place. My DC are too busy strutting their own sides to realise the truth. Thankfully I am capable of doing that.

Council have no obligation unless he is considered vulnerable, he will need medical evidence, they may refer to housing association.
He should also look at private rented, they may advise him about this.

TheBouquets Maelstrop wasn't making a moral judgement of OP, just stating a fact. Several pp have said that the council is the way to go, rightly.
OP - As pp said, put it in writing that DS can't live with you any longer from x date and why. Copy to everyone you can think of.
You can call your local mental health services (no. Should be online) or 111 or even 999 if he kicks off again. This can't go on, for any of your sakes.

The police should be called if he is violent. No excuse for that

If you are in UK , the son that is not working definitely needs to claim benefits because it means the NI stamp will be paid towards his state pension. He may also receive other things like free prescriptions, eye tests, dentist, job coaching, job seeks, universal credit, ESA or PIP. Look at www.gov.uk website and HMRC and CAB websites

Why isn't his girlfriend working more hours? Couldn't they go to live with her parents?

Who is paying for his alcohol?

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time.

It is time for some tough love and you are doing the right thing. It is hard to reconcile that when we sometimes shield our children from harm we can also be enabling their unacceptable behaviour.

Ultimately he needs to access help and support himself but I can understand that this will be difficult because of the way he was let down by some services in the past. It wont be easy for him but it is vital he does this so he is able to function as an independent adult.

On a practical note if he has to find somewhere to live he will have no choice but to apply for benefits to access housing benefit etc. This could also lead to him seeking further help with his mental health if he has to provide medical evidence of his anxiety from he GP.

It must be incredibly difficult for you as any good parent has a natural instinct to protect their children even when they are adults particularly when you know they are struggling. However if you don't then your assertion that he could be still living at home at 40 could well be probable.

The burden of responsibility that your lovely younger DS may feel must be tremendous. At just 23 it could impact his life in so many negative ways if he feels an obligation to continue to financially support the family instead of having the opportunity to chase his dreams and ambitions. He may feel he cannot move out and live independently or move in with a partner or move away if he receives a job offer etc.

At the very least if you cannot go through with asking your elder son to move out then he has to apply for benefits to ease your financial situation and enable him to pay you rent. If he wishes his girlfriend to continue living with you most of the week then he or she has to also contribute to this financially too.

In the mean time I would also remove any locks from his bedroom door, if he doesn't contribute to the household in anyway then he doesn't get to lock you out of rooms in your own home and take your property without permission such as your TV and keep it for himself.

Stop feeding his g/f, she's not your responsibility, or if she eats and uses your utilities, she pays, simple as that, 5 nights a week is pretty much all the time!

He must present as homeless, there are also homeless charities that may help with housing, esp as he's considered a vulnerable adult, he NEEDS to put all this into action, not you, you're actually preventing him from standing on his own two feet by killing him with kindness, sometimes you have to suffer a bit in order for him to actually gain a decent life, as it is, he's merely existing as an extension of you.

I think you need to stop making excuses for him, in the kindest possible way.

Shit happens to a lot of people, it doesn't excuse leeching off your mum and raising your hand towards her.

OK, thank you so much for your replies. He didn't reply to my text but I went to make a coffee late last night and he was there. He poured out.a long stream of apologies, promises and reasons why moving out is a bad idea. It was very difficult to reply because he kept deflecting and making excuses. In the end I just kinda backed out of the conversation.

He was definitely winning the conversation but I don't think he understands that talking me to a standstill doesn't change anything.

DS2 wants to be involved so I am planning a family meeting for later today and will update after that.

Why is his bedroom door / basement locked and bars anyone entry? Firstly he does not own the house nor pay his way so he does not have the right to lock you out of areas of your own home.

Why is his GF staying with you 5 days a week with no pay towards anything? It's not just food, but I amuse she has showers / baths, uses electricity etc? All costs money.

Where is the money coming from for alcohol?

As hard as it may be, you need to STOP enabling him. Start off with kindly telling his GF that she can no longer stay over. I'm sure that will start to make him sit up and listen.

Remove the lock off his door. If he has no money then he wont be able to replace it.

Who cooks / feeds him / does his laundry? You I expect. Well stop that immediately. You are not his skivvy, nor are you a punch bag.

Tough love time I'm afraid. You're afraid of him and what will become of him.

Hope the meeting goes well OP. Stay strong and remember you are doing this to help both of your sons long term.

I'm sure he is able to give you a thousand reasons why he should stay as he is the only person who benefits from it. If he refuses to change then this situation will escalate and become more damaging for you and your younger son.

Excuses and promises do not pay the rent/bills/food. Life is not free so he needs to accept that and access help to stand on his own two feet independently.

Just to add even though it's best out I completely understand your love for him keeping him so long, I could see myself in the same position come 20 years not wanting to part with my boys if they were settled at home with me but it will be for he best.

Stay strong!

I also think sometimes with situations like these if finances allow would selling up and moving into a smaller place alone be an option?

I could sell up and move easily from a financial point of view as I no longer have a mortgage. And in the long term that's what I'll do. But it doesn't suit me now. My longer term plans involve moving to another city once I know how things work out for my DPs. Bit complicated but essentially if I sold now I might need to sell again in a few years. Bad use of capital.

However if I really struggle to get DS1 out it may be the only sure fire way to stop him depending on me.

Had a long chat with DS2. He doesn't want to be any more involved than necessary but he is going to have a talk with his DB. Waiting to hear how that goes.

Hope it all goes well

OK, when you write the eviction letter, do NOT state that you are kicking him out because he can't follow rules/has been abusive/etc. The council will class this as making himself intentionally homeless. You need to either state no reason or say something like "as you know I am planning to sell the house."

I have experience of this with my own DS. Very similar, his dad died at 13, he is dyslexic and always struggled with school. His birth mum insisted on having him for 2yrs after his dad died and was horribly abusive to him in every way. I finally got him back but by that stage he had missed so much school and was so depressed and traumatised that he got very poor GCSE results and has never had a job.

At 16 he dropped out of college and refused to get a job of any sort. After giving him an ultimatum I evicted him. As a young person he was housed in a hostel specifically for young people.

I now know it was the worst decision I could have made. I should have put more support and tough love in place, but at home. He met some very dodgy people in the hostel (also some lovely ones) and ended up in social housing in an area where there are a least one stabbing a week and nobody walks the streets after dark except in gangs. At one point he was selling weed and only realised how dangerous it was when his dealer offered him £500 to stab someone. (He's pretty naive and only sees the best in people.)

He is now living with me again in a safe area. Like your DS he is not claiming benefits as the bullying attitude of the so called "job coach" was making him so stressed that he was physically vomiting every morning he signed on and several times had panic attacks on the way. I have come to accept that he will almost certainly need to live with me well into my old age or at least need very high support from me. He is also unlikely at this stage to be of any financial support, however he does do the vast majority of the household chores while I work. So he feeds and cares for all of the animals (we have many), cleans all the rooms except my bedroom, does the laundry, the gardening, any DIY jobs. He can't do much shopping as he doesn't drive (and probably can't learn) but he will go to the local shops for me.

All that said, he's never raised his hand to me and in fact I can't even think of him ever telling me to fuck off or calling me a bitch. When he has shouted at me during a meltdown he has always apologised without prompting after he has calmed down. The fact your DS has had a couple of short lived jobs and has a girlfriend would seem to indicate he has a lot more social skills than my DS.

Could one possible path be that he looks for a job (any job), the GF raises her hours (or looks for a second job) so that a private rent studio/flat would be affordable, and you could, as a homeowner, be guarantor? They could get housing benefit top up if they're on minimum wage.

(I would have suggested a double room in a houseshare but I think with your DS's vulnerability that's probably not a great idea.)

I think you should talk to citizens advice, see if they're any good. And maybe anonymously to Shelter. And women's aid.

For the poster(s) saying he's a vulnerable adult, the trouble is that in the eyes of the law he is not. He's never been to get a diagnosis, and I doubt that if he did get one, he would be classed as VA even then. He's not unable to learn life skills, he's unwilling to. Even with a diagnosed MH condition he might not qualify.

He's going to get a sharp dose of reality soon. Stick with it OP. Get your support systems for you in place NOW.

Right, there have now been several talks. His girlfriend came to plead with me. She agreed that he has had poor MH but insists that over the past six months he's definitely been coping better with life. She doesn't think he needs to see anyone.

She says that they have various plans and if I give them until New Year they will have sorted out decent jobs and found a flat.

I said I'd had promises too many times before.

She and DS1 have now offered to pay a reasonable amount for keep. She already works but can increase her hours and they say he can get two days labouring a week. If this is true I feel furious that it takes me kicking him out for him to pay his way.

DS2 and I are going to discuss what was said later. There was no privacy earlier. We have plenty of time. I was surprised when a little while ago DS1 and his girlfriend set off in her car for a weekend in Manchester. We live in the South East. How the fuck can they afford that?

NotTheFordType, yes, your experience sounds a lot like mine. So many similarities.

I don't want to give the wrong impression. DS1 can be lovely. He has rarely been verbally abusive. He's often very affectionate: scenes like yesterday's are rare - though they shouldn't happen at all. He's extremely intelligent but he's also very immature and very selfish.

DS2 is beginning to think the best option for all of us would be to come to a written agreement. This would set out exactly what DS1 must do to.stay in the house. Breaking the agreement would trigger eviction.

I'm not expressing myself very clearly. I'm massively stressed about this. It's impossible to describe the events of today accurately because the pair of them just produced an endless stream of assurances, apologies, wild or untrue claims. It's exhausting and so hard to deal with.

My DF has been pressing DS1 to start driving lessons all year but being ignored. DGD is going to pay for them (he has done this for all his DGC) but DS1 is completely apathetic

He finally got his provisional driving licence in July. He currently says he is studying for his theory test but has not yet actually booked a lesson. So he is making progress but it's very slow.