Would you leave over this?

[Largepiecesofcrookedwood]

DH likes a drink, I've known this since we met and it wasn't an issue as I liked a drink myself. We've been together 11 years and have DS who is 14 (he has been legally adopted by DH)
DH has more trouble coping with alcohol now than he used to. He's never violent but can be very hurtful and picks fights over inconsequential things. He rarely remembers what he's said the next day, and if confronted will either be embarrassed and apologise or will maintain that "he didn't mean it" and that I "blow things out of all proportion"
Recently I've noticed that he is showing some early signs of liver damage. I've bought this up and asked him to consider cutting down. He firmly believes that his drinking is under control, there isn't an issue and this is all a ploy of mine to "stop him ever touching a drop ever again"
Tonight the situation has arisen again and he has told me that he would have to consider whether he either cuts down his intake or we split up. I'm devastated.
Tomorrow he will minimise it, say he didn't mean it, tell me I've forced him into it or whatever. The last thing I want to do is to split up, but I think that is my cue that continuing drinking is more important to him than DS and I.
OTOH I'm aware that if I don't take the initiative I will ultimately be making him choose anyway.
He will choose to stay together but things will either not change so we're back to square one, or he will make an effort but will resent being "forced" into it.
I'm heartbroken and have no idea what to do for the best.
Any advice would be very gratefully received

Yes I would. At a very basic level it would be considered self-care.

Hi OP, I assume he is drinking heavily frequently if he has signs of liver damage? Do you think he is an alcoholic? I have a little bit of experience of alcoholics. My ex's brother died from alcoholism and I recently finished with my partner when I discovered he had an alcohol problem.
Unfortunately you cannot make them stop or cut down, they have to want to do it for themselves. There is a good chance he will drag you and your DS down with him. I would think seriously about whether you continue this marriage while he is drinking like this, it really is that serious.
Alcoholics lie, sneak around and will not admit their drinking is a problem. There is a good chance that if you give him an ultimatum, he will just start to hide his drinking.

crappy
When I say heavily, I mean daily in reasonably low levels (mostly) but he is affected by it to a much greater degree than he ever was- three pints will have him slurring his words and stumbling about the place. Previously three pints would have had little to no effect.
To this end he thinks he has "cut down" and I am unreasonable to ask that he cuts back further. I'm scared that something will happen to him, but have already made it clear that I will not be nursing him through an alcohol induced illness.
He's ignoring me completely this morning, which is nice

Would you stay over this?. Ask yourself that question.

The 3cs re alcoholism:
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

What do you get out of this relationship now with this man, your alcohol dependent H?. What is still in this for you?.

His primary relationship is with drink (so not with you or your son) and his thoughts centre around where the next drink is going to come from. You are way down his priority list even if you are on it. He of course would choose to stay with you because you are there currently at least propping up both him and his drinking. Did you yourself grow up seeing one or both parents drink heavily?.

You can only help your own self here and contacting Al-anon would be a good start. Your own recovery from his alcoholism will only start when you and he are completely apart. Alcoholism is not known as the "family disease" for nothing and you are profoundly affected too by your H's alcoholism.

Is this really what you want for yourself and your child going forward, you are showing him that currently at least this is still acceptable to you. You're also playing the usual roles associated with spouses of alcoholics i.e. codependent, enabler and provoker. This is not going to end well and there are no guarantees either when it comes to alcoholism. He could well go onto lose everything and everyone around him and he could still choose to drink afterwards.

The effects on your son of seeing his dad as a drunk and his mum tying herself in knots over her husband's drink problem are far reaching indeed and could even extend into adulthood. You cannot protect him fully from his dad's alcoholism here and this man is simply now dragging you and your son down with him.

You need to leave him. You can't cure him.
Only he can do that.

He can be very hurtful and picks fights over inconsequential things. He rarely remembers what he's said the next day, and if confronted will either be embarrassed and apologise or will maintain that "he didn't mean it" and that I "blow things out of all proportion"

I think after a few times of that happening, I would be packing. He is a mean drunk (in vinos veritas) and even mean when he's sober - belittling your hurt and saying it's your fault for getting upset.

This isn't about you having "a plot" to stop him from drinking (classic deflection BTW - you say that his behaviour is unacceptable to you and he cries "you're controlling! You're trying to change me!") it's about you having a boundary about what you will tolerate from a partner. You aren't some unreasonable nagging shrew for not wanting to stay with a man who gets drunk and picks fights with you.

Based on what you have written then yes I would. No ultimatums about drinking because they will be twisted and you made out to be the bad person. I would just say that I am no longer in love with the man that is mean when drunk on a daily basis and that I am leaving for the sake of my child to know that this isn'the the way you treat the people you love...

Yes, you do need to leave. He is an alcoholic and moreover, he is spiralling. It will only get rapidly worse from here on in and you have a teenage DS to think about.

I've been there - I was in the process of divorcing my H when he died suddenly and we had the funeral earlier this month. That's what you have to look forward to, I'm afraid.

He has no insight into his condition and will not change until he is ready to - and that may be never.

What ^ many above have said, I'm afraid. He's a spiralling alcoholic, in denial, with no incentive to get help. Possibly if he knows he needs to change to keep you and DS he just might seek help, but I wouldn't plan for it.

Is he secretly drinking do you think? He sounds like he has a lot more than 3 pints. I don't know of any men who would be this affected after 3 pints, even ones whobdont drink regularly like my ex.

In my experience, exH was permanently low level drunk, so a couple of pints on top suddenly tipped him into obvious slurring drunk. I would never have believed the lengths someone would go to to make sure they had alcohol at hand - think stashing wine bottles in the mattress, garage, skirting boards. It was only after we split up and he was admitted to hospital for liver failure that I fully uncovered the level of deceit - that actually was the hardest thing to try and get past - all this happened in my house and I had no clue.

I'd be discreetly checking what other access to alcohol there is and if there's any chance he's drinking in secret.

No musti i really don't think so. This is one of the issues that is concerning me, his recent low tolerance to alcohol which I believe is a sign that the liver is not metabolising as effectively as it should.

I feel utterly broken 😢

The thing is....you think he's had three drinks.

It's more likely that he's had more. In secret. Than suddenly developing the inability to handle more than three pints.

Spirits, hidden. I'd be checking every possible hiding hole in the house and garage. Bags, wardrobes, cupboards.

It's hard to explain mrpebbles and I know it sounds like I'm in denial, but I genuinely don't think that's the case. We have a shared bank account and I'm on the app daily. DH has no real access to money outside of our account.
And really, it makes no difference even if he was drinking in secret. The outcome is still the same and it looks like my marriage is over.

Thing is Largepieces you don't know that he isn't getting cashback in supermarkets using your account and then using it to buy drink. It's impossible to know.

But yes, I think your marriage is over. Please get yourself to an Al-Anon meeting, it will help you process all this, set boundaries and detach emotionally from your H.

He has no chance of getting better until he accepts there is a problem. So if he won't accept there's a problem I would leave now before it gets any worse.
As a bare minimum I would separate until he's got it under control - which for him may mean zero alcohol.

I suppose all the confirmation I need is in this thread?
We have an event tonight that we need to attend or it will not go ahead. Then I suppose we have "the talk"
Shall drag myself to the shower and see whether that will help clear my head a little.

I agree with you OP. Drunk after 3 pints means he has little functioning liver tissue left or as others have said he has a secret stash. If you hang around you are likely to have to nurse him whilst he is still treating you like shit. You have made yourself abundently clear about your feelings. In your shoes I would have the talk but not lay down any ultimatums. I would then closely observe and see what happens but in the background I would be getting advice legally and planning an escape route. When they are in denial like this they are country miles from the place they need to be to change from my experience.

He popped home (not unusual in itself) and apologised. Promised to change. Is in tears at the thought of losing us.
I'm utterly torn. I've said that he will hold me responsible for giving him an ultimatum- he says he won't
If I'm honest I'm not sure I can get over the idea that he would need to consider whether to stay with us or make changes. I would be heartbroken to split, but I now realise how important drink is to him and how it ranks alongside us in his list of priorities. Obviously he says that he didn't mean it.
He's gone back to work now, but will finish around lunchtime. Having laid all my cards on the table I feel oddly hollow. Who knew that 24 hours could change everything so completely?

Think of the example he is setting your son. This should be motivation enough for you to make the right choice.

It will hurt like fuck. Of course you still love him but you are doing this for him as much as your are for your son.

If you can, say to him "Look, we both like a drink. I've always known that you drink and it was never an issue before now. But, honestly, recently it has started affecting you and changing your behaviour. You can't remember saying nasty things. You slur your words after 3 drinks. I'm really worried about you and your health. It's reached a point now where I can't express my concerns because you minimise them and brush them off like they're nothing. Go and see your GP. I don't want to hurt you. I love you but if you don't start taking this seriously, we need to leave. Not to split up but because this is not the example I want to set our son." ... something along those lines?

Its a difficult one OP but I hope you have the strength to do the right thing. Only you know what that is. Sometimes people need to be confronted with the harsh reality before they do anything.

As someone who works in nursing and often looks after patients who need liver transplants through alcohol abuse - yes I would leave

I have nursed patients whilst they die when waiting for a liver. I have filled out many withdrawal charts for those who ‘like a drink’. I have seen somebody receive a liver but fall back to square one again when it’s rejected. I have seen patients die of several organ failures all because they ‘liked a drink’

I would 100% leave. For your sons sake. I would also look at your own relationship with alcohol and cut down yourself. ‘Liking a drink’ is never harmless.

Perhaps give him a chance to change. Tell him you expect to see him making changes immediately and that involves getting the right help. Easier to go along to AA than it is to get a new liver

This must be so hard OP.
But actions speak louder than words.
Please do see if your have an Al-Anon meeting near you and attend that.
It should help you a lot.
If he doesn't change then you know what you need to do.

You cannot help him but you can and should help your own self here. Unless he himself wants to properly address his alcoholism there is nothing you or anyone else can say to help him. He has to want to help his own self here and you cannot at all influence that process, it has to come from him.

Look at his actions now, not just mere words. Words are cheap after all and tears can also be manipulative. He has said that he promises to change but you have probably heard that before as well. What has he actually done since saying those words to you in terms of seeking actual help?.

You are caught up in his alcoholism too. Give yourself and your son a break from him and focus on you for a change. Your own recovery too will only start properly when you are away from him.

kenny as it happens I have stopped drinking for a while. This has caused DH no end of bewilderment and has probably cemented his belief that I'm trying to make him stop as well.
I've not heard from him since he left the house, apart from a text to say sorry. Interestingly, this text simply says "sorry" with no accompanying sad faces or declarations of love which is the usual go to response after a row.
I suppose I need to see what he proposes to actually do. I've just had a nap after a horrendous nights sleep and I feel a little more level headed, but am wary of simply accepting his apologies and assurances. Judging by what he's said, I think he's genuinely frightened that he's messed up once and for all. For my part I'm undecided whether he has or not, which feels like a huge step forward from the person who would accept his past apologies so readily.