When you already think bad things about yourself; and someone trusted tells you they think the same.

[Carterli]

I’m posting here as it’s about my general relationships with people, as well as with myself.

Like so many (most?) women, I suffer with very low self-esteem and self-worth. It’s horrible.
A while ago someone very close to me told me several very negative things that they saw as being my traits/personality/character.

(I no longer see that person for various reasons, but their comments carry enormous and emotionally significant weight.)

So I have taken these as absolute gospel because (a) I already thought I was a pretty crappy person anyway, so the comments just amplify/‘prove’ those existing thoughts; and (b) I don’t have any evidence that I am not those things. And also because (c) why would anyone – least of all this person - bother to make stuff up out of nowhere, so there must be some truth in it (insert adage about ‘speaking truth in anger’ type thing here)

This means these “allegations” have not only taken root, but absolutely flourished (festered?) and I can’t honestly see how not to have them in my head now. Before this happened I was able to quash them a bit, but now they are in big neon flashing letters all day long.

I am seeing a counsellor and she is fantastic, but every time she questions why I believe xyz about myself, I just get sucked back into my circular a, b and c above.

I am trying to undo a lifetime of feeling like this, so really I’m just wondering if I’ll ever come out the other side? And what if I don’t?

(Add onto all this some severe weight issues that I am working on, but it’s a physically slow process and I have done some permanent cosmetic damage to myself too)

I just feel crippled by it all; let alone the huge breach of trust I feel for the person who said these things to me.

(Regular poster, just NCd for this as obviously embarrassing)

(sorry that was so long!)

I'm going to offer you a huge hug ((())) (That kinda looks like a vagina but oh well)

Sounds like you have a very toxic family. Look for the "stately homes" thread on this board. It will help you immensely.

Thanks for the vagina, Not

It wasn't a family member, and I have seen the Stately Homes thread but thank you all the same. I guess that makes it harder in a way (for me), as this person wasn't "obliged" to love or even like me like family is, they chose to of their own free will. Before dropping their bomb on me.

@Carterli sometimes, people are just cunts. They don't need a reason. It's just a cuntishness they carry deep inside.

I had an ex who used to say really nasty things to me, I still carry a lot of it with me despite knowing that a.) he's a piece of a shit b.) I'm a better person than he is c.) I'm not stupid, useless, boring or incapable.
Unfortunately, words hurt and sometimes people really know where to hurt you the most, to keep you in the place that makes them feel the most powerful.

Some people have an uncanny ability to hit hardest where it really hurts. They may easily have picked up on your fear of being like something and then used it against you. Are you able to look at yourself objectively and can you see these traits? Do you have a close friend you could ask?

I would bet my bottom dollar that you are NOT like this person said. You sound far too self aware.

We all have faults, OP. We are pretty good at spotting them in other people but not generally good at seeing them in ourselves. If someone tells you your faults but you already knew them, you're ahead of the game.

And this person clearly has a hell of a lot more flaws than you.

Often people will reflect our deeply held thoughts back to us - often unconsciously. Look up transference/countertransference and it might explain some more.

And often, the people who do this are the ones with whom we have problematic relationships - because, as eddie says, they can find your weak spots, and will use them against you.

I hope you manage to find a way to love yourself again. At some point you did; so it's a matter of remembering and re-learning.

How I wish it were as easy to take on and internalise the nice things people say, in the way so many of us do with the negative! Why is that I wonder?

I agree that some people are just nasty and say nasty things to hurt other people and bring them down so that they can feel better about themselves. Does that sound like the person who said these (undoubtedly untrue) things about you?

What did they say to you, in general terms?
Because we all have positive and negative traits. And if you’re allowing these thoughts to quash any positive thoughts then that’s not right. No one is all bad.

@eddielizzard They may easily have picked up on your fear of being like something and then used it against you. Are you able to look at yourself objectively and can you see these traits?

• They knew exactly my darkest fears, so yes I can see exactly what they meant because it was what I worried so much about. But had spent years not minding about those parts of me/telling me I wasn't that, until they dropped it out of the blue - kind of "oh yeah and you are this, this and this, so...bye"

But - despite all that - they weren't a cunt. If they were, they'd have won multiple Oscars because nobody can fake everyday gestures, words and attitudes non-stop for that long.

@AynRandTheObjectivist We all have faults, OP....And this person clearly has a hell of a lot more flaws than you.

• Quirks, yes, like everyone. But nothing I ever found was a dealbreaker though, unlike them who found me and my traits so intolerable they couldn't stand to know me any more.

@AFistfulofDolores1 I hope you manage to find a way to love yourself again. At some point you did;

• I am starting to see that I never really have, unfortunately. I'd never thought of myself as anything other than mediocre and forgettable. Except now I think of myself as far worse than that.

@BitOutOfPractice I agree that some people are just nasty and say nasty things to hurt other people and bring them down so that they can feel better about themselves. Does that sound like the person who said these (undoubtedly untrue) things about you?

• Nope. It sounds like the exact opposite of them. Which is why I give it so much weight, because my personal experience of them is a kind and considerate and honest person. So it logically (to me) falls into "they wouldn't say it if they didn't genuinely think it" pile.

@lowtide What did they say to you, in general terms?
I don't really want to get into specifics so will use @Anastassiabeaverhausen's example of "stupid, useless, boring or incapable" to illustrate. Say my biggest worry was having a poor education and not feeling well read or informed about the world. They spent years saying to me that it was fine, and not to worry, nobody minded and they knew I was trying to learn more and they would help me improve (at my request). Then one day just came out with "you're too stupid, I can't bear how you continually ask dumb questions and I've just been pretending I didn't think it was an issue". And because of the lived experience of them constantly standing by their word and helping me, I trusted them with my dark secret. So they absolutely took me out at the knees when they revealed their true feelings.

It's not that I am evil at heart. I'm just "nothing". And those little green shoots I had started to put up about overcoming my inner fears have just been annihilated with a flamethrower. From someone that I simply can't reconcile as being a nasty person. They were just being truthful.

I feel like a hedgehog - it just quietly goes about its life, not really being noticed. But if you scare it, it curls up and hides away and shows only its spiky defences. And now I've been scared one too many times, so I never uncurl anymore as I'll just get hurt again.

Not to underestimate the impact of your Ex friends words but your chronic low self esteem gave them and anyone else way too much power. It was never your friends responsibility to prop the last vestiges of your esteem up. I'm failing to see why it's ok for you think the worst things about yourself but your Ex friend is terrible for repeating them.

Everyone has a role to play in relationship dynamics, what was yours? I don't know what was said or in what context but I can imagine it must have been hard being around someone who is sooo negative about themselves and maybe after years of listening to that negativity, they didn't think that repeating it would have the impact it has because, well, it's not something that you don't readily accept yourself.

So what if you are all the bad things you say about yourself. If there are things you don't like about yourself, change them and accept (if not embrace), the things you can't.

OP that person doesn’t have to be a nasty person all over to say something hurtful to you. Good decent people can also be unkind as well.

You are not just your flaws, you are every things else too. This person, regardless of whether or not it is true, said something to you which they knew would hurt you. That is unnecessary and unkind. It is not this persons job to go around pointing out the flaws of another person. That’s not OK. But despite this, you speak about them in a respectful way. You’re putting too much weight on their opinion of you and not enough on the little shoots you had started to grow.

I highly doubt you are as bad/or you flaws are as clear as this person has made you feel they are.

Focus on your strengths. This person loved you. You should love yourself too.

I read somewhere the other day that we are attracted to friends who reflect how we see ourselves. So people who view themselves in a negative light tend to pick friends who point out the negative things. It makes them feel understood. So you'd do well to start working on seeing yourself in a positive light. After all, everyone has personality flaws. Bet you have loads of lovely things about your personality too!!

Go out and do good in the world OP.
Smile at people, hold doors, volunteer for good projects.
This is what is important.

I am with Agent on this one. So what if you have flaws, I do, we all do. You need to find a way, not of changing them, but of stopping them matter so much to you. And, while I'm here, I'd start with unpicking why you think that 'so many (most)' women suffer with low self esteem and low self worth. You are wrong.

OP - you know none of us are perfect, right? It's impossible for any of us to know whether you have these traits as we don't know you, but what I can say is that we are all a unique mixture of different traits, and I'm not even going to say positive and negative traits - they play out differently depending on who you're with. Different people and different situations bring out different aspects of our characters.

If there's something specific you really want to work on with your therapist then great, but I would spend more time focusing on the traits you like about yourself, the kind things you do, the things that others like about you, and place less emphasis on these mythical character flaws that are probably not a big deal to anyone else, and in fact are part of what make you unique and wonderful.

My mother had a long-term friend once who turned around one day and ranted at her about her character flaws - like you, all the things that were her deepest insecurities. And she wasn't wrong, exactly, but it was like she had reflected my mother back through a cracked and distorted mirror until it no longer looked like her. She does have some of the traits this (now ex) friend highlighted. But they are part of what makes her her, and part of why we love and adore and admire and respect her.

You are you. Forgive yourself.

Why do you not want to say what they said? I’m not saying you have to tell us but what’s stopping you?

We have spent years hoping for a hedgehog. When dp found one in the garden he woke me up at midnight to see it.

Someone will appreciate your qualities of what I'm trying to say.

It's fine not to accept what They said you know. They aren't always right. Would you have acted this way to someone, taken their fears and thrown them back in their face? No? Well then.

Everyone has baggage. Its fine to leave it in a cupboard instead of carrying it around.

You say why would They say nasty things if they weren't true? Because they were angry / feeling bad inside and it spewed out.Nice happy people don't say nasty things to hurt people - they have no need.

Just because you said these things to her and she said them back to you doesn’t mean they are true.

Maybe through your low self esteem you have catastrophised your issues verbally to her and she has reflected this back to you.

Is there any physical evidence (actions by you) that demonstrate these flaws?

Maybe she has her own agenda - maybe she just wants to move on and thought this would be the most “efficient” way to do it for her. That doesn’t mean the content of her words are true

Sounds like she was trying to help you through something and got impatient? Read up on drama triangle and co-dependancy - sounds like that is what she is?

Hi there,
I’m sorry you’re feeling so awful. I’ve been there and it really is rubbish.
Things that helped me... (take what is applicable to you)

1. lots of sleep
2. multivitamin
3. NO alcohol
4. exercise
5. counselling
6. gratitude journal (write one good thing that happened to you, one thing you are grateful for, one thing you did for others and one thing you did for yourself in a notebook each night)
7. meditation via calm App

It’s not an overnight transformation but it all helps. You can get through this. I still get the occasional negative feeling poking through but i’m getting much better at ignoring them as my overall resilience is better.

You don’t say whether your weight problem is under or over weight.
Trying to address that will help as its part of “self care” and it says to yourself that you’re worth it.
If you are overweight I would recommend reading the obesity code which was a game changer for me. I realised that my weight was largely a product of society and legislation. That made me feel better immediately.
If you are underweight, your GP would be a great place to start for advice.
Another good book is Dr Chatterjee 4 Pillars of health. Explains why sleep and diet are important and helps with self care.

Good luck. You can do this. Try not to focus on what your friend said. You can’t control the cruel actions of others. What you can control is how well you deal with it.

Everyone is deeply flawed, in one way or another. We just have to work on integrating those flaws into our overall character so we can go on living while trying to improve ourselves where we can.

It sounds like maybe your friend spend ages being kind but then lost patience (was there a particular trigger?) and snapped. She shouldn't have done it and if she's usually a nice person she probably regrets it; and you shouldn't think that what she said is all you are.

OP, I think cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) would be helpful for you.
At the moment you have a very negative view of yourself, which is not actually a fair or balanced view of your strengths and weaknesses.
You ignore anything that validates your good qualities, and focus in like a laser on anything that reinforces your sad view of yourself as useless.
That friend obviously liked your company and wanted to be around you for ages. Every day they did that was a confirmation that you’re a normal “acceptable” person with good qualities.
But you ditch all of that and count it as nothing, against one negative comment. You are weighting the scales deliberately, to confirm your own negative self image. This is called confirmation bias.
CBT will help you challenge and change your negative thinking, so you can see yourself more realistically and objectively. Nobody is ever just totally useless or utterly bad- you have lots of good points and attractive characteristics that you are blocking from your perception.
Please see a CBT therapist and start addressing this. To take your hedgehog example - you can see yourself as prickly, frightened, unsociable and defensive, or you can see yourself as prudent, wise, risk assessing, adorably cute, great at removing slugs from gardens and a beloved part of our British wildlife!
It’s all in the mindset, and yours needs changing to accept and love yourself for the nice normal mix of good and bad points that we all are.
You’re a unique human, loved by God, and with just as much right to walk this Earth in confidence as the rest of us!
God bless, OP. My prayers for your ability to see yourself clearly, not through a filter of negativity.

I remember my Ex used to tell me what others thought of me (what he thought of me more like but was too chicken shit to say) However, despite my insecurities I’m not about to give anyone, least of all him, the power to make me feel less than. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve realised that my flaws are less than the sum of my whole and I’m generally ok with my whole.

I have insecurities but my self esteem is relatively ok, so no, I do not accept the negative prism you think ‘most’ women see themselves in. What I don’t think you realise OP, is how chronic your low self esteem is and how your negativity about yourself impacts other people and influences your relationship dynamics.

There's been some great advice so far.

All id like to add is this -

When I went thro counselling for child abuse, low self esteem was a part of it. Getting to my flaws and what I thought was wrong with me, it seemed that some of those things weren't true in the first place, some I could change and I did change, and some are just my flaws. We all have flaws and so what?

I had to learn to say I am good in these, these and these ways, but yes I experience challenges with X and Y.

And really, so what? That's your first thing there, to do that. So what if you have one or two problem areas?

The nest thing isn't, the low self esteem is not natural. I'm heartened that your basic self of self preservation and life force has compelled you to ask on here about whether your thoughts are appropriate, and I'm glad you're repeatedly being told no they are not. Life is therefore looking after you when you need it most. Therefore trust it.....you are not what you think. It sim n natural to think thoughts like these.

And they are only thoughts. Watch yourself doing things right in your daily life and you will see. Then, learn how to deliberately think better thoughts.

X I love hedgehogs too and I bet I'd be able to get one to trust me enough to uncurl too x love is always enough x