Marriage

[Rumplestiltskinswife]

Inspired by another thread but not a TAAT....

My DP doesn't want to marry me, we have 2DC, I am a SAHP.

I have been inspired by another thread to finally have the balls to have the conversation with my DP. However, he's recently lost his job and things are very much up in the air at the moment.

The points I would like to raise would be that I don't feel particularly secure in a future proofing sense if the worst were to happen being unmarried (although our house is jointly owned) I'm not happy with DC having a different surname to me and it makes me feel a bit 'not quite good enough' to bear his children yet not good enough to be his wife.

For context, I found myself pregnant unexpectedly at 25 with DC1 and probably too vulnerable and not assertive enough to have an open conversation about these issues at that stage. My own parents had recently separated and I think I felt I had no reference point for healthy relationship at this point and also nobody to confide in but 5 years on I feel emboldened.

Is it mean to bring this subject up at this point where there are lots of other pressures re work and money? and is in unreasonable to explain that the way I see things moving forward is either to change DC's surname to incorporate mine and make a joint will, get married (nothing fancy) or go our separate ways? I feel as though I'm offering an ultimatum with these options and that I would be unreasonable in doing so.

It's not mean but don't you think it's unwise. You've waited this long to raise the subject - why raise it now that your DP has serious stresses and priorities to think about. He'll just see it as an added source of stress and expense, and at this moment, he;d be right. Wait until he's back in work and things are stable, then you're more likely to get to have a balanced conversation about it.

That's what I have been thinking, however the current situation feels a bit like a clean slate and a chance to start over or go our separate ways if he really feels strongly against it. Will it ever feel like a good time to have the conversation? Probably not.

Your story is just like mine... 25 and unexpectedly pregnant, 2 DCs now 5 years in. I do work however.

I dont particularly like my DP anymore abd don't know whether to just separate or marry him first for legal reasons.

Romantically, I no longer want to marry him.

Celia - that's so difficult. I also am not sure how I feel. Obviously I shouldn't be waiting for his proposal as validation that I'm a worthwhile person and niggling things won't go away just because of a marriage certificate. I do often feel like I am the supporting role if that makes sense.

Don't wait and have the conversation now. There'll always be an excuse/reason not to.

the current situation feels a bit like a clean slate and a chance to start over or go our separate ways if he really feels strongly against it.

Exactly.

have the conversation now to marry when he gets a job.

There's always going to be some reason not to discuss a potentially uncomfortable subject, but if something is getting to the stage when it's becoming a deal breaker for you, I don't think you can do anything other than discuss it really. It'll all come out at some point.

Sandy - yes I do think so, I'm thinking I could take the opportunity to get back in to full time work. He's away at the moment and I've missed him but simultaneously find life easier in many ways when he's not here. I want to marry him, but also don't want to be 'that' woman pressuring a man in to marriage. After 2DC's and two house purchases together I would like to think it's not pressure, just a logical next step. The work issue had made me think more about the legal side of things and I just feel really vulnerable. To add insult to injury, he's buggered off on a stag do leaving me at home with the DC juggling an evening job, childcare, and DC 1 starting school. I can't help but feel it's not much of a partnership currently.

Paul and bluebell - wise words, thank you.

For context, I found myself pregnant unexpectedly at 25 with DC1 and probably too vulnerable and not assertive enough to have an open conversation about these issues at that stage. My own parents had recently separated and I think I felt I had no reference point for healthy relationship at this point and also nobody to confide in but 5 years on I feel emboldened.

Emboldened is good. What other things can you do to encourage this feeling?

Definitely have the conversation, but maybe try to stick to facts and keep emotion out of it iyswim?

Things like how even though the house is jointly owned, his half does not automatically go to you, ditto his state pension.

Think about whether his estate is over the IHT threshold and whether there would be tax implications for both you and DC as you won't get the spousal exemption.

How you don't have any rights/say if anything were to happen to him in terms of hospitalisation/treatment etc as you are not legally his next of kin (this happened to someone I know, his elderly mum refused to agree to his life support being turned off despite there being no chance of recovery and his DP of 30+yrs explaining to the doctors that they'd had conversation and his wishes were DNR )

Notthefordtype- I've been thinking (particularly with current situation) about getting back in to proper work to give me confidence as an individual and to develop this assertiveness, but DP's not particularly keen on this idea and in all honesty, we might struggle to make it work financially with the cost of childcare.

Frangipani- god that's awful, I'd never considered that side of things. I have asked in the past about making a joint will but he kind of dismissed the idea. I'm not sure if he's pushing me away with the rejection of marriage and joint will etc or if he's being naïve.

If you decide to stay together without being married, go back to work. It's not for him to not be keen on you getting your own financial security if he's not going to contribute to it by marrying you. He can have a SAHP or a partner he doesn't need to marry, but not both.

Paul - yes this is definitely how I feel. I really looked in to going back to work full time recently and the salaries I'm looking at aren't bad but I think in his mind, to make it work financially I would have to take home quite a decent chunk of money after tax, childcare, fuel cost for commuting etc and it would have to be paid for 100% out of my salary because he pays everything else from his so splitting childcare fees not an option.

Sorry if this seems like dripfeeding, so hard to communicate fully everything you feel is relevant without rambling.

Does it really matter that much these days, provided the house is in joint names? Get him to make a will, and get life insurance. I found that marriage (3x) just didn't work for me, I felt constricted, restricted and trapped. Fourth time round, I've been living happily with dp for 15 years.

Even if one does take the view that it needs to be measured against your salary, which obviously is debatable but let's say it does, why does it need to be a 'decent chunk'? If you're earning £1 more than childcare, commuting, other costs of work etc come to, that's making it work financially.

It's quite important that he understands he doesn't get to veto this. If he'll marry you then perhaps there's at least a discussion to be had, but if he won't then he isn't leaving you any option but to return to work.

Single - there are a few examples above of when it does make a difference.

I will admit, maybe it didn't mean so much to me when I was young, unexpectedly pregnant and just hoping to get through the pregnancy without things falling apart, but five years on, yes it does matter to me. I'm 30, and if he's never going to change his mind about getting married, I want to know that when I'm 30, not when I'm 40 or 50.

I'm not happy with DC having a different surname to me

You don’t need to be married to sort that.

And their world will be a little bit better if you don’t bend to the patriarchal model.

Mumsnet is a great reflective tool.

Paul - yes I agree. I think perhaps me being at home makes life very easy for him hence he discourages it.

Yes single it does, especially when you've limited your earnings to look after children. If you're married and you split up, there's the potential for you to come out with more than 50% of assets to reflect that you sacrificed financially. This is why it's particularly important that OP goes back to work asap if they're not getting married, and actually probably worth thinking about it even if they do. Plus, wills can be revoked and it's harder to challenge this if not married.

Maybe reverse my example back on him, ask him how he would feel if anything happened to you and he had no say in your treatment or care because he's not your next of kin?

Even if he still doesn't want to get married it may at least give him the nudge to put other measures in place to protect both of you....

The conversation would be easier if you knew why I guess, like you've said it could just be he's being naive, my DH can be an Ostrich sometimes and needs me to point things out to him

Titty - my children have recently started doing this thing where we all put our hands in the middle and day "team 'DP's surname" but my oldest has recently said 'but mummy you're not a 'DP's surname.' 😥

Frangipani- great idea, definitely something I can use in the discussion, thank you.