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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

My brother told me he’d sexually assaulted a woman (sensitive content)

55 replies

chocolateswirls · 04/09/2018 18:33

I am a fairly regular MN poster but have name changed for this thread.

My brother and I were taught nothing about sex growing up - not even the most basic talk about periods for me. I gleaned some information from magazines and books and I know my brother was looking at pornography as a teen.

I think my brother is having a bit of a mini breakdown. He was living and working abroad but is now back in the uk and is regularly talking about our childhood.

He has told me that he “didn’t take no for an answer” as a teen and he feels awful about it now. I don’t even know why I’m posting. I just feel a bit shocked myself I suppose.

OP posts:
Original poster
chocolateswirls · 04/09/2018 20:15

What would I tell the police nadia? I’m not being difficult but I don’t know when it was (precisely) or who it involved. I doubt my brother does either given the passage of time.

OP posts:
NadiaLeon · 04/09/2018 20:21

Just let it go then. No point stirring the hornets nest.

traceyturnblatt · 04/09/2018 20:42

So what was the point of posting?

Also stirring the hornets nest? (More like putting your head in the sand and hoping he doesn't do it again)

confusedfriend101013 · 04/09/2018 20:57

Does your brother suffer from mental health problems OP? Could it be possible he is suffering from some type of OCD?

I'm only suggesting this as I know that I myself, a few years back, started obsessing over things I had done and said in the past although it was not the same content as your brother. But i was so consumed and obsessed with what I did that I felt I had no choice than to confess to some close family members and friends to just get it off my chest. I thought they would hand me in to the authorities and that was my hope as I felt I needed to be punished but didn't have the guts to hand myself in. It was only after admitting to my family and friends what I had done and them prompting me for more information and details that it became clear I was not thinking rationally at all and was making the scenario much bigger in my head than it actually was. It didn't matter how many people I told though and how many times I was told to let it go, it wasn't a big deal, I just could not stop going over and over it in my head every minute of every day. I eventually explained all to the doctor, got put on meds and underwent some therapy that now, two years on, I can think of my overwhelming worry and all the laws I thought I had broken and what an awful person I thought I was and honestly laugh at how my brain led me to believe it was much worse than it was.

Is it possible if you questioned your brother deeper and asked him to explain his story start to finish that maybe you'd get an understanding of whether he really did rape someone or not? I'm only saying this as it is awfully strange that your brother who has lived abroad would suddenly come home and start obsessing over his childhood and admitting he never took no for an answer. I think someone that raped and had intended to rape wouldn't admit it so freely to anyone unless caught and with evidence. You also mentioned it seems like he's having a mini break down.

I could be wrong but just thought I'd put it out there.

confusedfriend101013 · 04/09/2018 20:58

Sorry meant to mention above it was OCD I was diagnosed with then put on meds and underwent therapy.

picklepost · 04/09/2018 21:24

Sorry OP for your distress and for the many stupid responses you have received in here.

  • Speaking as someone who was raped as a teen, whose rapist was brought to account, as someone who grew up in the very embodiment of a mscho culture, who has brothers and now sons and a daughter...

Totally agree with cel and think you should disregard pretty much all the others.

We all have our own experiences and you are entitled to be supported in this.

So is your brother. If it was my brother I'd actually be impressed with his honesty and openness.

He needs support to get through this and to grow. I'd encourage him to get professional support perhaps starting with Lifeline or a similarly anonymous helpline.

It is a good thing that we are waking up to rape culture but its a painful truth to face.

Blame is unhelpful. Projection is unhelpful. We are all entitled to be heard and supported.

Maybe get a little professional support for yourself too OP.

winnieofwhitby · 04/09/2018 21:58

I'm not sure what your parents have to do with anything.

I have a teenager, he doesn't want to talk to his parents about sex, closes his ears to it just like I did when I was a teenager. We've had chats about respect and consent but even then he will close me down if he is finding it embarrassing. He is under the age of consent and isn't interested in girls (or boys) yet.

I don't see how our lack of discussions regarding consent will lead to him becoming a sexual deviant.

winnieofwhitby · 04/09/2018 21:59

Regarding sex that should say not consent!

BoneyBackJefferson · 04/09/2018 22:05

safetyfreak
A teenage is not a child.

The safeguarding training that we have just had says a child is up to 18 years old.

merville · 04/09/2018 22:24

If he feels all that bad, perhaps he should put his best efforts into remembering the girls from where he didn't take no, getting in touch with them to apologise and (if they want to) cooperate with any prosecution they wish to bring against them. He'd probably be very lucky and not have any actual prosecution s.

Of course I don't believe he'd ever do any of the above do it's a mute point.

merville · 04/09/2018 22:24

Moot

WellThisIsShit · 05/09/2018 00:10

Drat wrote a longer post but it got deleted grrr! Was a supportive post though.

Take care Flowers

Pressuredrip · 05/09/2018 00:33

I'm absolutely not dismissing this or being a rape apologist, but sadly 25 years ago and still today rape culture and sexual assault and harassment was (is) HUGE and nearly every teenage girl experienced it to a degree. By rape culture I mean everything from objectifying and pressuring all the way up to rape. The awareness of it and the change away from it is extremely recent. Conversations about consent with our teenagers is definitely a recent things. Most teenagers understand consent more than most adults. I hope many men are having a similar realisation to your brother. There is a great deal of hope for the ones that do understand the gravity of their past actions and regret them. Teenage boys are victims of society, of toxic masculinity. It's nearly impossible for them to avoid it. Look at the mysogonist over sexualised films that were popular then like American Pie and think back to your own experiences in that time. It doesn't mean women who are victims should accept, but I certainly think tracking down a person to apologize is likely inappropriate.

Currently you have no idea how rational his comments are, if he regrets flirting too much with people that weren't interested or violently raped someone. I think it would be a good idea to talk this over with him as it is obviously bothering him and could have been very serious. Hopefully he is blowing it out of proportion and you can give him some healthy perspective.

picklepost · 05/09/2018 05:19

Agreeing wholeheartedly with *Pressure

winnie your son is growing up in an entirely different era to the one being discussed. Your son's experiences are irrelevant here but you do come across as worryingly clueless

Guavaf1sh · 05/09/2018 05:34

There isn’t enough information available to know the best thing to do here. Your brother knows the most and the fact that he is thinking about it all these years later is testament to the fact that something significant happened. But without that information we simply can’t know and can’t advise

AgentJohnson · 05/09/2018 05:36

No sex education from your parents, really! Do you really think that you and your brother getting no sex education is that uncommon? Mizz and Just Seventeen is where me and a significant amount of my friends (if not all), got our Sex Ed. I understand your cackhanded attempt at contextualising what happened but If that was an excuse for forcing someone to have sex then a large percentage of the planet would be forcing others to have sex. No, is a complete sentence and any boy or man who admits to ‘not taking no for an answer’ is admitting sexual assault.

I’m confused as to the point of this thread. You obviously don’t want to hear from others that your brother sexually assaulted someone, you would never report it and it doesn’t sound like beyond feeling sorry for himself that your bro would ever do anything beyond dumping his emotional shit on you.

For the record OP, being fourteen and lacking sexual education is not a mitigation for sexual assault. You can dance around it all you like because it’s ‘closer to home’ but that doesn’t change the fact that there isn’t a girl out there who was a victim of your brother’s behaviour.

So what do you want? Us to take your lead and go along with your ‘it was a long time ago, he was just 14’ and ‘he had no Sex Ed’ defence. Sorry OP, my sympathies lie with the girl who was on the ‘receiving end of ‘not taking no for an answer’.

winnieofwhitby · 05/09/2018 15:05

Why thanks pickle 😂

You come across as being the most intelligent 🤓 informative poster that I've ever encountered. Thank you for being here, we learn such a lot from your wisdom 😘

Joysmum · 05/09/2018 16:09

I agree with picklepost

I too was raped as teen but didn’t see it for what it was and so the perpetrator was never bought to justice. Times were very different back then.

I live with the guilt of not having reported but having been through counselling as an adult I’ve had to learn to unpack what happened and come to terms with it. I know he’s gone on to treat future partners appallingly but I don’t know if he’s raped, coerced and manipulated again. I think he probably has. That guilt is what’s hard to live with, more than the rape has been.

If this had happened today, I think I’d be a lot more aware and prepared to speak up and know what’s right. I didn’t stand a chance back then Sad

ovendoor · 05/09/2018 16:51

"But we can either choose to believe that rapists are a small, discrete subset of perverted men who are detached from normal society, or we can recognise the reality that rape and sexual assault have become almost normalised to the extent that many, many apparently ordinary men see nothing wrong with 'pushing the boundaries' and 'refusing to take no for an answer' and so on. And the appalling statistics on rape, particularly rape in which the assailant is known to the victim, support the second view of the world. And I don't know how we fix it, but I do know that decent sex education and directly challenging the toxic masculinity we see every day must be part of the solution."

100% Cel!

I'm sorry OP. This must be really hard for you to deal with.
Is your brother looking for punishment so to speak?
Perhaps try to talk to him further to glean the extent and see what action can be taken from there.

MyDoctor · 05/09/2018 17:02

If he was 14 when it happened, he's not responsible for his actions. As others have pointed out, there's a big difference in pressuring someone into sex and full on rape. He's your brother, so don't judge him or push him away. If he's told you this then he obviously wants your support.

LadyInParis · 05/09/2018 17:18

@MyDoctor
Technically correct but morally incorrect. By law depending on the severity of the crime, he cannot be held wholly responsible for certain crimes. However even in law it is a hugely gray area. Because of the fact that he IS morally responsible. He knows the difference between right and wrong. He IS responsible. Otherwise what would be the point of us punishing our children's bad behaviours if they aren't responsible for said behaviours? I think you meant that in law he cannot be held responsible (and even that is debatable and complex hence youth prison centres for criminals under 18).

Off topic but please don't give incorrect information in topics such as this.

LadyInParis · 05/09/2018 17:18

big difference in pressuring someone into sex and full on rape

Also incorrect

LadyInParis · 05/09/2018 17:21

On that note I'm out. This is a very triggering subject. I hope you get some support here that is useful to you OP. I'm sorry I can't be of much help but Flowers for you

BillywilliamV · 05/09/2018 17:22

Typical MN over reaction, it was 25 years ago when he was 14, he feels bad about it. Why dont all just leave it eh?

Adora10 · 05/09/2018 17:39

He wasn't a kid, he was a teenager so bloody new right from wrong, lots of us grew up without sex education and didn't go onto rape anyone, if he didn't take no as answer is basic rape and I'd personally find him abhorent, he's only telling you to release some of the guilt he's been carrying, nothing else, or for you to say, never mind it's mum and dad's fault for not teaching us, teaching you what exactly, the meaning of the word no? Can't believe some responses, being impressed with his honesty, what a joke.

Not saying you should inform anyone but your brother is a piece of work.