What would you do?

[Afriaca85]

Over 20 years of marriage. I don’t remember a time in my relationship where I have been comfortable. I married someone I tried to help due to their background. We had our first child out of wedlock. Although I was not ready to get marry, and did not want to married, I love her and I married her and have been disappointment and unhappy since our marriage.
I feel so horrible and guilty. I have forced myself to stay in the relationship because of guilt. I have been suffering since and I don’t know how to leave the relationship. I am overly ambitious and I have these desire to make a difference in the word. My wife is just comfortable being a wife and a mother. I respect and honor her for that. However, her simplicity and her desires to only stay in her corner represent everything I despise about people who does nothing about upward mobility. We both come from poor families.
We had a very successful business where we employed many people. She choice to abstained from participating in the business. Overpowered by the responsibility of running a business that employed so many people, I shut the business down out of frustration. We moved in to communities that were conducive for personal and spiritual growth, again she abstained from participating in the process, or she participated halfheartedly.
My wife’s family are low lives. Out of the 25 years of marriage, not one family member have ever been evolve in her life. She is lonely. She is afraid. She is angry with them. I feel so sad for her. She suffers from guilt and envy and very low self-esteem. My personality of wanting to chance the world and being overly ambitious creates anxieties for her. This limits my ambitious and makes me angry and frustrated. I feel limited and I hate the feelings of limitations. I feel like I am in prison.
I understood all these emotionally dynamics my wife has faced over the years and I tried to help in my limited ways. She has not accepted the help. She has fought me tooth and nail and makes me feel that I am doing something wrong. She tells me I think I am better than her and she insults me.
I want a divorce but I don’t know how to leave the relationship. We have 4 children together. Our oldest have graduated from college and our second is in college. People look at our relationship and thinks everything things is ok. But things are not ok. I have lost all drive and have become very confused about life. The situation has drained the live and the ambition out of me.
How can I help my wife? She does not let anyone come close to her. She drives everyone away. I am tired. I have tried my best. But I am dying slowly inside from frustration and disappointment.

Well raising 4 dc does require a lot of time and energy.

But you do think you're better than her! You want to 'change the world' and think her aim of being happy as a mother is somehow less.

Was your business somehow going to change the world, or just your world? Was it an eco-business? Or do you just want to stamp your name on the world? And it was you who wanted it, not her, but you blame her for YOU becoming over whelmed and closing it. Then you drag her and your dc round spiritual 'communities' because that's what YOU wanted, but again it's her fault you didn't find what you wanted.

How bloody patronising that you want to 'help' your wife. Help her what? Become a mirror of yourself? Has she ever said she wanted to be more like you? Your ego is the size of a house, but your lack of success is all down to her?

I'm not surprised she's lonely and angry. You've put yourself and your ambition (ego) on a pedestal and think she's a fool for not seeing how amazing you are. You chop and change what you want and are pissed off she's feeling insecure while she holds the family together. Your lack of ambition, lack of drive and confusion is all yours. And now you want a divorce and can't get off your arse to do anything about it.

Divorce the poor woman and let her get on with her life the way SHE wants to and stop expecting her to be grateful for traipsing after you as you try to fulfil yourself.

I think you should leave the relationship you are clearly unhappy and don't respect ur wife much. If someone has to change or u change in order to be together it probably won't work. I don't think looking down on her raising kids is going to help things... Raising respectful kind children will change the world in more ways than you could imagine. Stop pushing her to be exactly what u want and leave amicably. X

@Thingsdogebetter:: Thanks for the response. I do not think her aim of being happy as a mother is something less. I think you misunderstood my point. As the matter of fact. I have to play multiple roles as a father, a provider and a mother. That has been where most of my stresses came from.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with self-employment. The business I ran help the elderly and disabled communities as well as abandoned children from urban communities.

I don’t think wanted my family to be in a better social, spiritual or economic position is wrong or patronizing. I think having a reasonable expectation for your family is always ok.

Finally, I do not expect her to be grateful to me. I expect to cherish the opportunities we get considering where we come from as individuals. We were not born with silver spoons in our mouths. And one cannot be that self-absorb and stayed in a relationship for 25 years. I do love my wife, but all I am saying is that I need help in trying to sort things out with her. I have not been able to sort things out. It is out of desperation to sort things out with my wife that I used this platform.

You sound like a very angry person and I am sorry for contributing to your anger.

@Bambi99: Thanks for your constructive response. I really don’t want to get a divorce, but I do not want to continue in dysfunctions either. I can understand how my statement on rising kids can be misconstrue. That was not my intention. I have been both a father, a provider and the mother, but it has been so overwhelming at times for me to plays these multiple roles. I know it’s part of life and it comes with the territory.

Thanks for your advice.

What do you mean by saying you have been father and mother to your four children? From what you say, your wife has dedicated herself to being mother to your four children, and you seem to despise her for it, as well as for her family background.

It sounds to me as if you should find a good counsellor and think very carefully about your own choices and behaviour, as you seem very often to blame your wife for them. It does sound as if you think you are better than her, especially if you only met her in the first place in a 'helping' capacity, but what shines out from your post is how little responsibility you take for your own actions, like getting her pregnant, like marrying her, like having three more children despite being unhappy in the relationship, like closing your successful business down (why on earth?) like the various moves to 'communities conducive to personal and spiritual growth' that you say she hasn't been on board with.

What would your wife's account of the last 25 years look like? 'I'm married to someone angry and restless, who doesn't respect me despite the fact that I've raised our four children, who continually wants me to be something I'm not, expects me to help run a business as well as raise four children, drags me around to communities he wants to live in and I don't, and blames me for his failures, including closing down a successful business....?'

If you want to end your marriage, which may be the only thing you can do -- then own that decision. But look at your own behaviour and motives and dissatisfactions before you complain about your wife's.

@GreenPimpernel:
Thank you so much for your perspectives on this situation. I truly appreciate this. My wife's account would be as follow:

I hurt by Husband for the first 15 years of our marriage because I was not mature. I got married at 20 years old because my 22 year old Husband was very much in Love with me although he was not ready to get marry and neither was I. I hurt him in ways I cannot mentioned but I have changed and cannot relive the past. He lives in the past and still sees me as this person who has broken his heart. He loves his family so much. He has regrets because He has waited for me to catch up but life is chancing for both of us and we are also chancing as a couple. The last 10 years my husband has acted like I acted for the first 15 years of our marriage. I hurt him because I was angry with the world at that time. I was angry with my background.

I have chance. I have tried to make it up to him but it has been very difficult for him to let go of the past.

What would you do?

Wow you’re clairvoyant? Awesome.

I can't help think there might be an OW? Maybe because of the blame shifting? I'm sorry if there isn't, maybe because MN and I'm quite cynical now 😔

What?

You have 4 children. As a mum of 4 myself, let me assure you that it's very full on and caring for them is not the lazy way out not lacking in ambition. It takes happy of time and effort.

By your own accounts, your business took a lot of your time and effort so you may have been provider but most childcare and probably housework and lot of other things fell on your wife. If you complained at her for her lack of ambition whilst she was supporting the family allowing you to work and bring the business forward then she would quite rightly have been angry and hurt.

You need to step up and take responsibility for your choices. All I see is a pity party for one.

All I keep reading is me, me, me.

You sound like a bit of an arse mate. I'd love to hear what your wife actually thinks.

Wow, I wish we could hear what your wife REALLY thinks of you and your marriage. I would bet it’s a lot different to the way you describe things. Her job has been to look after and raise your children while you built your business. Please respect her for this and stop rubbishing her roll in life.

I stand by my original post. Patronising and egotistical. "Waiting for me to catch up" really? You think you're so amazingly ahead of her, she needs to catch up? Wtf.

Want to add psychic and lacking in self awareness and theory of mind. OP drops clues to heartbreak etc, but I wonder if that was simply his wife not thinking he was the amazing man he obviously thinks he is. ???

I'm not angry OP, I'm horrified. And extremely grateful for my lovely dh who respects me and doesn't think he needs to fix me to fit his narrative.

Why do you find it hard to take responsibility and own your actions Op?

How do you feel reading what people here are saying to you?

@occamsrazor. He'll feel that we are all somehow less evolved than him and need fixing. He'll assume, in a lovely patronising way, that he can help us catch up with him in a spiritual and personal development way. Lol

OP your entire post seems to be blaming your wife for decisions that you made.

You chose to sleep with her.
You chose to marry her
You chose to shut down your business.

Lots of people run businesses without their spouses input.

Plenty of people practice their religion or participate in their community without their spouses input.

Being a provider and a parent is hard work but it’s not unusual.

If you are unhappy in your marriage either seek to change it or seek to improve it but stop blaming your wife for everything that has gone wrong in your life.

You are responsible for your own actions and your own failures.

I have received many responses concerning this matter. Nobody ask me why I feel this way. Nevertheless, I appreciate all the responses. Additionally, I am interested to know what percentage of the responses are women and what percentage represent the male perspective. By no means am I suggesting the responses are all wrong all right, but perspective matters.

@0ccamsRazor: Thanks for your question: “How do you feel reading what people here are saying to you?”

I feel great and I appreciate the differing perspectives. I know that I have to take the responsibility for my action. I have felt shame for not standing up years ago and taken that responsibility in certain areas of our relationship. Sometimes we hope for the best in the people we love and they hope for the best in us. Unfortunately at times our perceived views of the best is different from that of our partners. I understand this. Providing for my family and securing my children future has been the number one priority for me. I consider these goals to be my primary responsibility as a father and a husband. I come from an economically challenging situation and a politically charge environment where there are only two classes of people-the very rich and the extremely poor. Because of this, I have refused to see my family go through this. Especially in a society with so many opportunities for upward mobility. When we have work so hard for all these years and all I seem to see is backward movement, it makes me questioned the process.

I know it seems that I am blaming my wife for everything. I am not. I know her better than the responses I am getting. But I also understand why I am getting these responses.

Thank you for this question. The nonjudgmental and selfless concern for this matter inspires me to share my views more. Keeping this in all these years have caused us some serious drawbacks.

You say you shut down your business because of her, yet you’re not blaming her for everything?

What I’m reading hear is that you’re not as successful as you would like to be so you’re blaming her.

You have to blame her for everything because you want to end it and if she wasn’t to blame then you’d be the bad guy!

Nobody ask me why I feel this way.

Because you've been telling us at length since the start of the thread.

I know her better than the responses I am getting. But I also understand why I am getting these responses.

I'm not convinced you do. Your posts are all about you, and blaming your wife for your own decisions, and when asked what you thought your wife's perspective on your marriage might be, you bang on about how she's hurt you and is from a poor background.

You don't seem capable of considering the possibility that she's entitled to her own opinion on how she wants her life to be, that you may have ambitions she doesn't share, because she is not you.

Additionally, I am interested to know what percentage of the responses are women and what percentage represent the male perspective.

Oh dear. Do you think men are going to agree with you, that you're a poor put-upon individual whose wife doesn't see you for the demi-god you are?

@MessySoprano: lots of anger! not very productive!

@Joysmum: I like that perspective. you have made the most profound statement i have heard so far: "you’re not as successful as you would like to be." you are absolutely right. i do not fell emotionally, spiritually or financially successful. I do not know why. 25 years is a very long time. many people would consider this a success. but does it not take two to tangle. so what do i do now with these feelings? I do not want to go, but I think in order to stop blaming myself and blaming her for the challenges we have faced, something has to gave.

Thanks for your insight. Have a wonderful day!

Do you really see “lots of anger” in Messy’s post? Because I thought she was fairly measured, if a little sarcastic at the end.

You are right, a successful marriage takes two. Not just her, you too.

I’m female (and this is predominantly female site) but I don’t believe my husband would have given you a substantially different response. I know from
past experience that he doesn’t have much respect for men who blame their dissatisfaction with their lives on their wives or for men who don’t take responsibility for their own decisions.

No one is saying that your wife is perfect or blameless, but it’s you we are talking to and you who are asking for our advice.

@NonaGrey: What if our partners are not consistent in playing their part in a marriage? Does the other partner have the right to become frustrated and complain? Especially if the time has been put in. we are not talking about 2 years.

Do you actually believe a person who does not take responsibility for their life would stayed married for 25 years? Do you really believe it took only my wife’s efforts to raise our children? Do you really believe I play no part in raising my children? 25 years is a very long time for someone to “act” irresponsible and make blames…

The challenge here is this. I think it is ok to get frustrated when a person feels they have done all they can do. I was 22 when we got married. I am now 47. She has been the only women have known and the only woman I have love.my first….

You said your husband has no respect for man who blame their dissatisfaction with their lives on their wives. I feel the very same way. That is why when I got married I decided never to be like my father and stay married no matter what happens.

Thanks for your comments. I received it. A successful marriage does take two. Not just her. Maybe in the rush to express by frustration and disappointment I introduced my post incorrectly. And that introduction warrants the responses I received-constructively or destructively.

I appreciates the perspectives I have received. I did not realized this site was for women either-what is the irony in that?

Do you actually believe a person who does not take responsibility for their life would stayed married for 25 years? Do you really believe it took only my wife’s efforts to raise our children? Do you really believe I play no part in raising my children? 25 years is a very long time for someone to “act” irresponsible and make blames…

I didn’t say or imply any of those things. I, like previous posters, are only responding to what you have actually written.

You haven’t made any specific complaints about your wife other than:

She’s not ambitious
She wasn’t involved in your business
She doesn’t worship with you
She’s from a poor background

As none of these seem to us to be particularly dreadful or controversial it’s hard for us to advise.

You didn’t realise a site called “Mumsnet” would be predominantly women?