DD's boyfriend

[Thesearepearls]

I don't know where I am with this and would value some MN perspective.

DD is 20 and currently at university. She loves her course and is enjoying university life

The thing is she has a new boyfriend who is 28. The age difference is not a big thing in isolation but there is a really big difference at that sort of age.

I'm not that keen on the boyfriend. To be clear, he seems a very nice person, and his background is stable, and he clearly loves DD.

It's just that he seems very proprietorial and emotionally demanding. DD has a job in a firm of solicitors over the summer. She wants to be a lawyer so this is a big thing for her. She lives with us in Leeds but she's at University in Newcastle (where her boyfriend lives) and her job is in Leeds

The problem is that she is driving up to Newcastle for 2/3 nights a week. The trip is 2 hours. And I'm not convinced that this murderous commute is something she wants to do - it's something he wants her to do and she doesn't want to let him down. She's looking tired and unhappy.

He does sometimes come to ours and gets very territorial. It's difficult to explain. We want to welcome him but he's a bit of a blagger and whilst he does clearly love DD we're a bit worried about him. He's not what we would have wanted for DD and whilst that's not relevant (what she wants is what's relevant) it's clearly a relationship that is imposing some burdens on DD and she is looking tired and drawn and is clearly not very happy.

I dont suppose there is much we can do apart from being loving and kindly. What do you think, MN?

Sorry don't have much to offer as my dc are not that old yet, but as a stubborn girl and sister to equally stubborn girls.

I would say any interference no matter how well intentioned would probably lead to her digging her heels in and making a resolute commitment to him.
Think you're going to have to bite your lip and wait for her to see how wrong he is.
Knowing she had your support no matter what is all she needs to know.
Sorry hopefully someone else with more experience will be along soon xx

I had a very controlling and in the end violent boyfriend at 19. Which is different but I honestly would have welcomed more support from my mum in terms of gently letting me know his behaviour wasn’t right, I didn’t have to put up with it, if he’d really loved me he wouldn’t have treated me that way. I wish my mum had got more involved, it impacted on me for years after. In the interim can you try to frame it as a positive eg welcoming him to yours more so she doesn’t have to wear herself out driving up and down? Can you make it more about being balanced and fair? What is the territorial behaviour?

If it was my daughter i'd speak to her about red flags. Or maybe give her something to read. Tell her that you're not accusing her boyfriend but there are some things in his behaviour that are possible red flags so to keep an eye out for them.

Why have you said twice that he clearly loves her... and yet you’re worried about her because he’s proprietorial and emotionally demanding!!

Can I suggest that if you do talk to her, you don’t try to come across as supportive by saying that he clearly loves her?

Because if he is demanding, that’s not love - and you could very easily fall into encourage her mistaking his demands as love. Actually, your role is to help her see that making demands isn’t love at all.

I’d start by not commenting on the relationship directly. I’d say “you look exhausted honey - it can’t be easy pulling in full time hours and going to to Newcastle too. You know we’re happy for to stay over here, don’t you? So you can share the driving?”. See where that takes you. Might start her opening up about it not being equal effort.

I don't really know what to do

I very much love my DD but I don't want to drive her away - we are quite close - but I'm not happy because i can see she's not happy IYSWIM

This boyfriend is making her tired. That's not good.

Have you said anything at all yet?
There’s a big difference between “you’re looking tired darling, how’s the job going?” and “that man is being an arsehole wearing you out”. The former shouldn’t drive her away at all, and no reason to be defensive about it either. If she says the driving is making her tired, then stay neutral “can he stay here?” not “he ought to share the driving”.

TBH, a young and presumably normally healthy 20yo should be able to cope with 2-3 days a week of that extra drive. It’s not that big a deal. So even if this man were absolutely super, I’d still be asking her if she’s OK.

The extra drive is not great TBH it's two hours each way. So it's two hours up after work and then two hours down in rush hour traffic

She's not strong. She had a (minor) stroke when she was 16 - not much of a bleed to the brain but enough for us to be very careful and watchful of her. She's super tired now.

I can empathise, OP. I've been there with DD and myself at that age.

I think I would probably bring it up casually, at the dinner table or something, and just ask her how she was feeling about everything. Ask about her job, you must be tired with the driving, how are things with BF?Not interrogating her or 'having a talk, just asking about her life in a casual but genuine way. I would reiterate that you will never judge her and are always there no matter what, nothing is too big or too small. It's tricky - my own DD would sometimes get defensive over these types of conversations and it can be hard to pitch it right, but it's worth a try. If she seems unhappy then she may open up if you come at it from a place of love and care (which is evident from your OP btw).

I think I was scared to talk to my DM at that age because there was a strong element of moral/personal judgement there - lots of 'that's not how I brought you up/not whilst under my roof' etc. As a PP said it did ultimately drive me closer towards the arsehole boyfriends and prevented me from asking for help from her.

Could she see him more at the weekends so that she isn't shattered for work? I realise that that may mean you see her less at the weekend but at least then she's not away as much during the week. And as a PP mentioned, maybe suggesting that he come to you sometimes? I suppose the most important thing is not to set a precedent for when uni starts again. What are her friends at uni like? Is she living in halls next year?

Apologies for typos and horrible grammar in the above post!

Tell her you notice she looks tired and unhappy. Ask if she is ok. Emphasise that she can tell you anything and you won’t judgr/ make your reaction part of the problem.

X-post with your update about her having had a stroke - Christ. That certainly changes things. Even 'not much bleeding to the brain' is too much, especially at such a young age. All the more reason for her not to be doing the drive or for him to be sharing the driving.

Sounds like tiredness is actually the main game here. So why not address that with them both at once?

You don’t know how much he knows about her health limitations.
You can be sure they both have bought into the ‘burning the candle at both ends’ youth culture.
You can guess she’s trying to impress him, and keep up (given he’s older).

Might be that you just have to be ‘those parents’ who remind them both that she has extra medical challenges that won’t go away just because ‘it’s not fair’ or ‘I want to make out it’s not real’.

I’d also book her an appointment with her specialist from when the stroke occurred. Let them reiterate what those risks or limitations are (and will be) if indeed she is living with a chronic condition. She (and you) might also be told things that put your mind at ease.

I’d treat this as if the boyfriend is part of the solution, rather than the problem. As if it were anything else that was causing her to push her limits: a job, going out dancing late, low-level drug taking, a bad diet, etc. Engage him in the job of looking after her, as you do, if you must involve him at all.

Yes we've talked about this with him

We explained to him how much of a problem it was (then)

She seems outwardly so much better and fully healthy

It's just a mum thing tbh - I can tell when she's totally exhausted

He's got a (failing) restaurant business. I understand that he needs to be there all the time. I just don't want her tired out and I can see that she's exhausted. Plus I don't really believe that he's the right person for her.

This is really tough. I think I would say it to her. It seems unfair she is the studenf paying petrol and all driving .. preference would be she could see him or meet halfway for a meal / cinema

Could your daughter not just see her boyfriend at weekends, either at his or yours?

Just be nice and when she is at home without him, encourage her to see friends and have fun.

The relationship may burn itself out but you have been great about it all so whatever happens, she knows she has your support.

This really is hard; I have 2 DDs, a lot younger at 9 and 6 and I'm really dreading this stage. I have no advice to give but you seem to be handling it just right. Your DD clearly knows she has your support, which is great; just keep reminding her that her boyfriend is welcome to come and spend time with her at yours or they could meet halfway and enjoy an evening together for a meal or the cinema.

The relationship will (hopefully) blow itself out, and your DD knows she has your support.

He should be making the effort to see her as well :( I would have a talk with her if it was my dd but its unlikely the relationship will last in its current form anyway...hold on.

You do need to address this. They key issue is HOW you address it.

I was in an abusive marriage and when I finally gathered strength to LTB , my family suddenly diid a UTurn and declared that they'd never liked him (despite falling over themselves to please him over 9 years).

I asked my brother about this - he said that it wasn't his place to raise concerns about my (ex) husband. Yes, it WAS his place - he's my older brother and is supposed to look out for me. As for my gaslighting mother...

I have a 20 year old DD so I can relate to you OP.

Ask her how she is. Ask her how she's feeling. Ask her about the driving. Ask her if she has enough money for all the petrol (as one PP) said. Ask her if she's noticed a difference in her tiredness.

Don't ask her a direct question that she can say No to. Try not to get riled at the "dunno" answers. Try not to sound judgemental. Ask her what she likes about him. Ask about his strengths and weaknesses (a bit of a SWOT).

Look at restorative practices that teachers use, plus positive reinforcement. Is she second year about to go into third? If so, have you spoken about her plans after graduation? Come back and tell us if she wants to stay up in Newcastle with him next year.

Do you go to see her during term time? How is she coping with her degree work so far? Can you get your son to have a chat with her before the end of the summer?

I'd be worried too.

I really appreciate all your advice

She's just finished her second year and is about to go into her final year. She's planning to do a masters in law after graduating - also in Newcastle.

Yes I do go and see her during term time. My firm has an office in Newcastle and my team covers the North so I make a point of going to Newcastle every couple of weeks for work in any event and more often than not we'll go and grab some supper (which is partly me making sure she has a proper meal)

The boyfriend is great on healthy eating btw and I know that this helps DD who could descend into a life of rushed takeaways - she's a can't cook won't cook type (unlike DS).

He's always welcome here - both he and she know this. The problem is that he has to attend to his business which is not doing well TBH and I understand that.

I'll try to have a chat with her about it when it's just me and her. Getting the tone right is going to be SO SO important.

Her friends are really nice and she has a great group of friends but this is almost part of the problem because she has to make time for them and him and she's burning the candle at both ends.

What are the specific red flags you are feeling?
Because I can’t see one from your posts other than he has to stay where his business is, so she has to go to him which is making her tired.

What am I worried about?

I don't think this is the right thing for DD. She shouldn't be driving up and down to Newcastle midweek (three times last week) because it's tiring her out. I don't think she even wants to go TBH - it seems to be expected of her.

She was ill last weekend so he came down to look after her which was sweet. But unnecessary and I know she forced herself out of bed earlier than she should have done in order to entertain him.

I do think she's feeling some degree of pressure to comply with his wishes and to put matters plainly and simply she's not looking happy.

Here's one example of just too much full on-ness. DD has to do some form of work experience this year. Her BF's idea was that she should do this work experience at his restaurant. I mean she wants to be a lawyer how would this help? Plus I imagine the university would take a dim view of work experience being provided by a boyfriend - how's his review of her work going to look? She scotched that one swiftly but the suggestion was slightly odd if you ask me.

OK....

Please be careful that you're not sounding too snobby about the BF. I know you posted the last update in the early hours when I suspect you may have had a glass of wine and been a bit tired. But if this tone of voice comes out to/when referring to BF, then your DD will put the barriers up.

I quite agree with you that driving up to Newcastle from Leeds 2/3 times a week is ridiculous. Leeds is the one place where I refuse to drive (learnt to drive in London, so not a complete roadwimp) so I would be beside myself with worry if my DD was by herself on those roads - does she go up the A1 or the A19? Both not nice roads.

I can see why BF suggested the work experience in his restaurant as it was an easy choice for her to do and he was trying to be helpful. He just didn't think things through though. On the other hand, I have actively encouraged my DD to get a "hands-on" job this summer and she's working in a hotel. My reasoning is that she's showing future employers that she literally is prepared to get her hands dirty and won't end up as one of those irritating new graduates who regard menial tasks as beneath them.

You have made it sound like working in a restaurant is ridiculous. It isn't- it's providing excellent training in customer skills, problem solving, multitasking and prioritising.

The thing I'd be most concerned about, however, is how much time BF is taking DD away from her studies. If she wants to be a solicitor then she needs a First. What was her overall second year result?

I'd also encourage her to take her Masters at a different uni. We are discussing my DD's options and the particular course that she wants to do is run by her current uni and a different one. We are encouraging her to go to the different uni as a means to spread her wings a bit, despite this leaving her own very lovely BF behind.

How did your DD meet her BF, why is she not spending more time with her uni cohort (to get the intellectual spark) and why has she gone for an older man? These are answers that, if she was my DD, I'd genuinely want to know.

I’m sorry OP it just sounds like a normal young relationship where one person ends up wanting to please the other person. You just grow out of that sort of thing on your own when it eventually gets a bit boring.
I can’t see at all that he’s forcing or coercing her into anything.
She’s an adult, and I think you’ve just got to leave her to it. If you think she’s really unhappy then just ask her

It sounds like he is controlling getting her to drive there. My sister was dating someone like this and would drive over 80 miles to see him for not very long! It didn't last and none of us liked him and could see he was using her but she wouldn't listen, and wasted three years on him.

I completely sympathise. I was once in your daughter's position.

All the advice I can give is to be there when it goes wrong. Support her. Even if it goes wrong 1000 times. Talk openly to her about your concerns, but gently. The more you rail against this chap, the more she will close herself off to you.

It's easier said than done, I know.