Not having regular sex with my husband (long, sorry)

[SausageBrain]

DH is 38 and I'm 32, we've been together 8 years and have 2 dc aged 5 and 12 weeks.

Ever since I had my first ds there's been a mismatch in our sex drives, mine has gone down and his has largely stayed the same meaning he's expected the same amount of sex as before the kids came along. I also have issues with anxiety and low self esteem which have affected things at points over the years although I have had therapy and counselling for these and things are much better than they have been for a long time on that front.

DH tends to get sulky whenever he doesn't get 'enough' sex and obviously our opinions on what constitutes 'enough' differ. For example, since ds2 was born 12 weeks ago we've only had sex twice which I am aware is not very much but to be honest I just don't really feel like it very much at the moment. I bled for a long time after the birth and didn't fancy it when I was bleeding and I was worried about it hurting (although no major tearing thankfully, only a 'graze') - which it did. The last time we did it I actually told him to stop as he was hurting me and I was even trying to push him away but he didn't stop straight away. This upset me a bit and has put me off sex even more.

The last few days haven't been great between us and he spent the weekend largely ignoring me and barely looking at me. He sent me a link at the end of last week of a Google search "how to give a hand job" which I didn't like very much and ignored. He later asked me if I'd seen the link and said he didn't even want to have full sex if I wasn't up for it and would "settle" for a hand job. I said ok and I would after the kids went to bed but the baby ended up not settling until late and DH and I fell asleep on the sofa together. When I realised we'd fallen asleep on the sofa I went to bed & in his half asleep state he accused me of reneging on my promise and was annoyed and tutting (like it was premeditated). Ever since then he's barely spoken to me.

DH seems to equate sex with love and affection (he is right on that though I suppose!) and thinks (and says) I must not love him anymore. This obviously isn't true, I do love him very much and we are affectionate in other ways. In every other aspect of our relationship things are fine: we get on great, we're a great team, he's a lovely man and a great dad.

I'm not sure if IABU or he is, I suspect it's a bit of both. I am probably being a bit selfish and should make more of an effort for him. I know he ends up feeling down and unattractive (he even didn't shower over this weekend, he almost 'lets himself go') and I love him so I should do everything I can to make him feel good about himself and to express my love for him. On the flip side though he says I make him feel like "a sex pest" but sometimes all the groping and rubbing his boner on me does get annoying. None of that makes me want to have sex with him more, it has the opposite effect (as does the sulking and lack of shower). We have trouble talking about it in any productive way as he thinks IABU and I think he is a bit too.

Maybe I should just 'lie back and think of England' a bit more and 'fake it until I make it' for his sake? He says he's NBU to expect a few hand jobs if I won't sleep with him and I suppose I agree? I do feel I'm being a bit selfish but then part of me thinks it's not the fucking 1950s where I have to please my man whether I want to or not just to keep him happy but I know he feels unwanted and I can't really blame him.

Any advice or words of wisdom kind mnetters?!

If sending each other links is a good way of communicating why don’t you send him some?

www.bellybelly.com.au/men/why-doesnt-she-want-to-have-sex-with-me-after-the-baby/

www.babycentre.co.uk/a564548/dads-how-to-rekindle-your-sex-life-after-a-baby

www.netdoctor.co.uk/ask-the-expert/sex-faqs/a2071/since-the-birth-of-our-child-my-wife-no-longer-wants-sex/

He’s not being gentle enough with you, in any respects.

You need to sit down with him, remind him that what you really want is to get to a postion where you want to be intimate with him but that will take some time.

Tell him he needs to
Make dinner every night (including clear up)
Put 5 year old to bed every night

So you can deal with newborn. Then tell him that you expect gentle affection, not necessarily leading to sex and that you will make it clear when you want it to progrsss to the next level.

Ask him why he is keen to have sex with someone who is not interested in having sex with him and ask him to really think on that.

Consent is too low a bar, he needs to work to gain your enthusiasm.

If the guy can’t handle gentle, caring, supporting husband work in life/cuddles/with fatherhood then how are you ever going to trust him not to hurt you?

Just tel him CLEARLY all of that and if he won’t listen write it down.

Be blunt;

‘Our sex life will not improve until you change these things’

Make sure you include not showering

He’s a child, he needs to be taught how to grow from this. Good luck

Thank you so much everyone, I have read and digested each and every post.

Thank god for mumsnet! It's amazing to hear that the consensus is that he's the one who should buck up. I knew IANBU but am made to feel I am and that I make excuses to get out of sex. What he fails to understand is that they're not "excuses" they are genuine and, from what I've read here thanks to you lovely ladies, perfectly acceptable reasons to feel off sex at the moment.

I do feel like a skivvy sometimes, I get fucking sick of no-one bothering to even tidy up after themselves and I nag and nag and nag and I'm sick of nagging too. I've obviously made a rod for my own back somewhere along the way by just getting on and doing stuff myself (most likely because I was sick of nagging). Even my 5 year old is better at this than dh, I'm trying to "train him up" so that when he is grown up he'll be a bit more useful than dh is. I know all this is boring as fuck to him but it's my everyday life at the moment and it gets me down and stresses me out that I get hardly any support with the home (although I am sure he'd probably dispute that). Getting a bit of outside perspective has helped me see I do a lot and it's no wonder I'm tired.

Also pleased to see others would find his behaviour pestering and revolting. It really is a massive turn off but he cannot understand it, I think he thinks I'm just frigid. He even says (unbelievably!!!) "why can't it be like it was in the old days, you were always well up for it then"....eeerrrrrr, what the fuck? Can he not see how different our lives are now (well my life mainly I suppose..)?! I do still love him but wish he could see that without me having to spread my legs.

Another thing is that he doesn't seem to mind about doing stuff with the baby in the room but it completely puts me off. He can just block out the baby's presence but I'm really aware of it and at the moment the baby is basically in the room with us all the time.

I'm not sure why he's being like this, we already have a child together so it's not like life with a small baby is a shock to him. Last time I forced myself back into things earlier probably to stop the pestering but this time it's different because we now have two children, it's also the summer holidays so I've got my 5 year old 24/7 too at the moment. I don't think he gets how draining it can be, I think I make it all look easy so he gets taken aback when it puts me off sex!

Sooooo pleased to hear that it's normal not to want sex so soon after having a baby. I did just push a baby through my fucking vagina!! I don't have anyone I can talk to about stuff like this so had no idea what was normal and what wasn't which is why I was expecting everyone to be saying "it's been 12 weeks love, crack on".

You lovely ladies have given me strength, I was fully expecting most people to say I was out of order and should give the poor man what he wants. I'll now be able to stand my ground and have some brilliant come backs to any complaints he might raise (when he want to start acting like an adult and actually talk this through without sulking). Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Argh, sorry this is so long!! Just trying to get everything down while I have a chance!!

I could not love a man like this

Sausage

Just to add;

When I had my first child I tore badly and I was scared to even feel my own vulva for a while.

My husband gradually got me to the point where he could orally stimulate me (NO fingers) and eventually asked if he could slowly try and put his penis inside me which he did very very gently and slowly until I was asking him to be faster or harder. It took weeks.

I have a 6 year old
An 8 year old

And a 1 year old.

In this house, husband comes home at 5 and makes dinner, then he puts baby to bed, then he puts boys to bed.

Often he cleans the kitchen too.

At 5am every morning he takes the baby so I can sleep til 7.

We have sex twice a week, in the lounge as like you we have the baby in with us.

Of a 40min shag, approx 20mins of that is making sure I am ready.

As you can imagine, I am WELL up for sex, he is attentive, kind and he helps me in the house.

If one of us is busy/working/ill, we end up not feeling like it at all.

Neither husband or I want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want us, so it immediately ruins any chance of a sex life.

Husband also works 40hrs a week btw

I hope this helps you see what I think is a more healthy divving up of jobs...

We also share a big clean on a Saturday morning and he pays for a cleaner for 2 hours on a Monday x

He sound a horrible, selfish, inconsiderate man child. How on earth does he imagine you would want sex with him? I despair of men and their unbridled entitlement, I really do.

You don’t need an “excuse” not to have sex. You just have to say no. That’s it. Any rrason that you say no is valid.

He can give himself as many handjobs as he likes. You’ve sacrificed and changed and injured your body in other to carry and birth his two children, sorting himself out for a while or hardly a comparable sacrifice.

Ugh my ex was exactly like that. I suspect its more of control thing- a complete turn off !

Thanks for the links chesty, wish I had thought at the time to respond to the "how to give a handjob" link with one of these!! They have some really great info that really backs me up, going to add them to my arsenal for the "big chat".

Sorry, Cantankerous, cross posted with you there. Thank you so much for taking the time to give such detailed advice. You are absolutely right that I need to sit down with him and make all the things you say clear. I think I've got to the point where I know we have to make things change, it's such a broader issue than just sex but it's that which is bringing all this stuff out for me. Also thank you for sharing your experience, your husband sounds attentive and considerate of you and your needs which is what I need to make dh aware of. I wonder if he's just got major tunnel vision on this and doesn't realise it is a bigger issue for me than just throwing my knickers off. He's got so wrapped up in how he feels and his own frustrations and self-pity that he's forgotten I'm an actual person not just a fuck-bag.

Thanks also Cantankerous for outlining how you share your responsibilities, it definitely does help getting outside perspective. You just take your own 'normal' for granted which is what I have done but instead of just seething underneath I need to bring it up with dh in a more determined way other than just constant nagging.

I think your husband is disgusting.

I'm 7 months post partum with my first baby, having torn and grazed during birth and sex has only been something that I've wanted and enjoyed for the past month. We'd had sex earlier because, like you, I'd assumed it was abnormal to not want sex when 3 months post partum. I then had a smear test and the nurse told me it was still early days and completely normal to not have sex for a while having had a baby! It was such a relief to know that my sex drive would return and slowly, pretty much in line with how much sleep I'm getting, it has.

The way your posts read is so sad. Your husband is making you doubt yourself and consider spreading your legs (your words) for his gratification, completely disgusting. You are worth love, affection and to be made to feel like the amazing woman you are having given birth to his children! You do not exist purely for his pleasure.

How could your self esteem have got so low that you think this is all you deserve.

It’s like a kind of Stockholm syndrome.

He’s a nasty sex pest.

He doesn’t care about you.

You are just a fuck hole to him.

He’ll end up having an affair and get you to believe it’s your fault.

Would you want your sons to grow up thinking this behaviour is acceptable?

Yesss, kalinkafoxtrot45 and YesitsJacqueline! It is such a turn off, I knew I wasn't just frigid which I'm sure is what he thinks.

You're absolutely right Tammy and I need to be more forceful about that. I think I've just perpetuated his behaviour by not challenging him on this, or any of it really with any conviction, and by just giving in to stop the pestering for a while, even though as Gojira said on the previous page I'd prefer not to.

There is nothing less sexy than a man pestering for sex - why on earth do they think that having another whiny child is going to turn you on? Do they want you to see sex as a chore?

You have three choices:

1. give him all the sex he wants, however you feel about it
2. live in this whiny world full of resentment and frustration
3. tackle the problem head on, knowing full well it will take a lot of uncomfortable marital work before he understands that if he wants to turn you on he needs to know what actually turns you on and then do that.

I did 1 and 2 for 15 years before I cracked and broke up our marriage. I wish I'd tried 3).

Don’t blame yourself for his behaviour, just don’t.

Thanks hodgeheg92, you're right, it is a relief to know it's normal. You're right that he's made me doubt myself which was my main motivation for posting here in the first place, I think I knew deep inside that he was in the wrong.

Which links in to what you say Sarahandduck18 about it being some kind of Stockholm Syndrome, it's been a relief to get some outside perspective. Your post has even made my cry a little as my self esteem is so low I have been worried he might just go off and find someone else and I even felt like I wouldn't blame him for it. You're absolutely right that I wouldn't want my sons to think this is acceptable or be like this when they are adults so I need to make sure they have a better example.

PS - do have a look at the '5 ways of loving' or whatever it's called. For my DH physical intimacy is a really important sign of love, and I suspect some sex pests are asking for love in the most clumsy and unsuccessful way possible. That's no excuse though - being a sex pest is selfish and unloving.

(PS - DH is not a sex pest, obviously).

Exactly PurpleWithRed and I do end up seeing sex as another chore thanks to the way he goes about things but when I tell him this he gets all hurt and rejected. I think I need to get my arse in gear and really work on 3) from your list. I've been too passive and haven't stood up for myself really and that needs to change.

I think you are right in that nothing has changed for him he still does his job he did before and that is it - this goes far beyond sex and he cant see beyond it

It comes down to the fact that you see yourself as doing everything and that he simply sees you as a means to satisfy his needs.

I think you need to discuss changes in your relationship him stepping up and doing more

@ PurpleWithRed I suspect that this is what is at the heart of it, he's asking for love in a clumsy and unsuccessful way and I think he's got so wrapped up in himself and how he feels that he's got tunnel vision on the whole thing and he's lost sight of me as a person.

Yes Quartz2208, you've hit the nail on the head there with everything you say. We have got to a crisis point although I don't think he realises it, I'm sure he thinks this is just about sex and me not wanting it/him but it's more complicated than that. We definitely need to have a discussion about how things need to change and I'm just preparing myself for this. I find it helpful to formulate what I'm going to say and counter-arguments etc in advance otherwise I can never remember exactly what it is I want to say

Sausage ask him outright to question his wish to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with him.

He should be looking for ways to make you want to have sex with him, not force you into sex you don’t want. If he’s a reasonable guy he will question his headspace

So he gets to sit around, be waited on hand and foot, do zero housework and very little childcare, not even wash himself while you're run ragged with a small baby and young child, then he gets to complain and whine and hurt you because he thinks you're not doing enough for him, not shagging him enough???? And you're the one who feels bad about it? WTF???

He is a horrible fuckhead. If he did find someone else he'd be doing you a massive favour. But who's have an arsewipe like this?

Some important points:
You never ever ever have to have sex of any kind of you don't want to. Never, not for any reason. Sex is 100% a voluntary activity - you don't owe it, you are not required to provide it. Never ever. If you don't want sex all you have to say is no and that's the end of it. Excuses are not necessary. If your husband isn't happy with the amount that he gets to use you, tough shit, that is no reason to 'give in' - he can just fuck off, because a loving partner would never want you to submit to sex you don't want.

Carrying on with sexual activity when your partner is saying stop and pushing you away is sexual assault. A crime. He didn't care that he was hurting you.

It is not his role to 'help' with the children and housework. It is also his house, they are also his children - he should be doing his fair share of managing the life you have built together as a team, not sitting around expecting a medal because he considers emptying the fucking dishwasher to be a huge favour to you. Funny how it's so hard for him to do any housework while he thinks it's so easy for you, isn't it? You're supposed to do all of it and still be up for sex as and when his boner dictates, but he can't manage to take out the bins. Strange that.

Have more respect for yourself, please.

Thanks Spaghettijumper, your post has also brought tears to my eyes because it's so spot on, you've put everything much more concisely than I ever could. I do need to have more respect for myself, I've got so bogged down in it all that I've lost sight of who I am (so has he I suppose). I'll be making a note of some of your points to say to him when we sit down to discuss all of this because you put everything so well.

Sorry to hear you are going through this. From what you've described of your husband his behaviour is certainly emotionally abusive. See link below. I really hope things start to feel better for you but please don't be afraid to reach out for help if you need it.

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/arguing-and-conflict/what-emotional-abuse?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8YOl6obs3AIVBJ3tCh0v3QPWEAAYASAAEgIEAPD_BwE

OP my husband is exactly as you have described constantly pestering for sex and acting like a child when turned down! I explained to him over and over that he needed to invest more in our relationship for me to be turned on but instead was completely neglectful other than when he wanted sex.

It was exhausting and draining and made me feel crap about myself. He would also allude to me being frigid even if we had sex 3 times a week because he wanted it twice a day! He never helped with the kids or housework and I was expected to do it all despite the fact that I worked two jobs.

After 2 and a half years of therapy I have finally realised that it's not my fault and his behaviour is manipulative and abusive and he moved out recently!

I am so much happier now! There were obviously other issues but even though we have seperated he still can't stop making little digs and comments about how I'm not looking after his needs! Not attractive behaviour at all and I'm encouraging him to go elsewhere 😂!

Good luck when you confront him hopefully he will take stock of his behaviour and make some changes!