Marriage ending, feels unreal

[Notfrom]

Hi, first time posting on mn. My 20 plus years marriage seems to be over and it feels like I'm dreaming. My dh is blaming it on me, says I gave him an ultimatum (don't remember doing this) that he needs to change or I would leave and he won't change anything because I'm talking nonsense about his moods. There is a history of us having totally different recollections of the same conversation with me always being in the wrong somehow.

Bit of background. I have always been very tolerant of his moods and tried to keep the peace, even apologising for things that I didn't think were my fault just to stop him sulking. This has been going on for more than 20 years. I have also taken care of all of the domestic stuff, which was fine when I was a SAHM but I have been working full time for a few years now and still do everything. He works longer hours and says his job is much more stressful so can't help.

In the last year, I've begun to get angry, possibly because of menopause, and just don't want to put up with the moods any more and be a domestic drudge. Dh says I've changed (this is true) and have got very argumentative. I think I'm just standing up for myself but he says I'm completely selfish and just want everything my own way.

My problem is that he wants us to talk to our kids, older teenagers, and tell them about 'my plan' to leave when our youngest dc goes off to uni. They know something is up, I'm in the spare room and they have seen how he ignores me. I feel like I'm being manipulated into saying something and getting all the blame for what is a very sad situation. He has some very good points and has been a great breadwinner and father but we have got into a real rut in the last few years.

It all feels like it's happening too fast. I can imagine a life by myself but I don't want to be pushed into anything before I'm ready. Unravelling our life together will be hard and complicated and I suppose I'm hurt that he won't even try to save our relationship, he's just angry that I've complained.

I suppose I'm just looking for some support as I feel very alone in all of this and being made to feel totally unreasonable. Thanks for reading this, I know it's a bit long.

Sorry Notfrom. He sounds appallingly manipulative - pushing you in to taking all the responsibilty/blame for what appears to be a fairly mutual feeling about the relationship not giving either of you what you need/want. And his unreasonableness (NOT yours) and the speed with which he has accelerated things to this point must feel bewildering and distressing. Anyone you can talk to in RL? Sounds as if you could do with circling your support wagons. And could you think through / write down what you want to happen. What works for you and what works for the kids. Take back control if you can and ignore what he thinks you need to do. He can bugger off frankly. 20 years of putting up with a sulker is more than anyone should have to cope with. Your decision and your actions, in your own time.

Thank you Oldstyle, I do feel manipulated and my patience has worn very thin. It feels like such a long time since I've thought about what I want that it's hard to know where to start. I'm thinking of looking for a counsellor (he won't come along, I asked) just to talk it through and get my thoughts together. He says if the counsellor tells me I'm in the right I need to look for another counsellor, so trying to manage this as well.

I would stop listening to him. You need space to make up your own mind what you want. Can you stay with a friend for a couple of days to give yourself chance to catch your breath and make a plan that suits you. You dont march to the beat of his drum anymore and he is clearly struggling to deal with that. This is a huge change to navigate, dont be bullied by him into agreeing to anything. Take your time and get some legal advice asap. Dont agree to anything yet.

It feels like such a long time since I've thought about what I want that it's hard to know where to start.
Says it all really doesn't it! I'm not underestimating the upheaval that's caused by a long-term relationship breaking up but it certainly sounds as if your life is likely to be massively happier without this entitled bully.
A friend in similar circumstances was told to close her eyes and visualise a series of possible scenarios - at 18 months and 3 years (just the ultimate outcome, not the stresses and strains of getting there). She then graded them from 1-10 (miserable/stressed - relaxed/happy) depending on her gut response. She realised very quickly that any scenario with her OH out of the picture cheered her up enormously! Counselling, just for you, sounds like a great plan - and will give you some perspective.

Thanks Tatiannatomasina know you are right, I've got an appointment to talk to a solicitor next week as he has talked about divorce a couple of times (saying ' I assume you want a divorce' - I hadn't mentioned it). I don't see much of home at home at the moment so will try to get time to think. Work is very busy so it would be difficult to get away but I might try to sort something out so I can get time alone soon.

That sounds like a great exercise Oldstyle, I can imagone having the same outcome. I feel a bit stupid for putting up with it for so long but there have been so many times when I've tried to put my side of things and have ended up feeling that I was totally wrong and apologising. He's very intelligent and can twist things.

Wow, you are doing so well in the face of such manipulation.

Seriously, hang on to the truth. Keep repeating ‘I have never mentioned divorce’ or ‘I have no plan to leave’ or ‘we did not have that conversation’.

You don’t need to try to convince him of it, he just needs to know you don’t believe it.

I think you should legal advice as well re him trying to get you to move out- Get the info together and go for a consultation so you have a better idea how best to approach this.

It doesn’t commit to anything but it’s good information to have in the background

He is gaslighting you. Just reiterate what the truth is and don't let him manipulate you.

May be a good idea to write down how you feel about the situation and what you want going forward, and email him your thoughts.

He won't accept it/agree with you/take it on board, but at least he won't be able to say that you didn't tell him xyz, because it will all be in writing and you will be able to produce the email.

Then try to distance yourself emotionally. You know that he will be manipulative and unable to take personal responsibility for his part in this because that is who he is. Try not to let it upset you, and instead focus on what you want to happen in the future and where you want to be this time next year.

I know it's difficult; I was in exactly this position a year ago, and I honestly feel so much happier now without stbx.

You can do this!

Wow, thanks to everyone for the encouraging words. Writing things down is a great idea because when we talk it all gets twisted, although I agree that the chance of him actually accepting any of it is very small. I was thinking today, if I won the lottery what would I do? The answer was that I'd get my own place straight away, so that tells me something.

Good to know that someone has gone through this and come out the other side Cambionome. I think that people will be shocked when we finally part as I've kept the repeated 'silent treatment' episodes to myself, although friends have remarked on how much I do for him.

I'm trying to stay strong and focused but the atmosphere at home is strained with lots of silences and cold politeness when anything needs to be said. I suppose I could make some effort to talk but I really haven't got the energy. Thanks again folks

Distance yourself as much as possible - if you can't do it physically yet, then do it mentally until you are actually ready to leave.

Totally ignore him and his cold silences; read a good book, listen to music or just think about what you will do with your life when you are finally rid of him! It's difficult to do this at first, but after a bit of practice you will find that it gets easier and easier.

Good luck

Well I've been trying to follow all of the good advice but it is very hard. We had a talk and he accused me of deliberately setting out to ruin the relationship. He couldn't accept that I was just expressing unhappiness and wanted change.

He wanted us to talk to the dc's about what is happening and I agreed, so this happened at the weekend. We had agreed that we would say that we are having problems and trying to work on them and we'd be in separate rooms for now. It started off ok but then he decided to explain that i had issued an ultimatum and that I was used to getting my own way but had gone too far this time and he wouldn't give in to ultimatums. I was so stunned that I didn't say much (I also didn't want to have an argument in front of dc's) but I feel so frustrated. I also think there is little hope for the relationship so it's now about just surviving.

I don't have anyone to talk to. Don't want to burden friends or worry family. I'd like to phone Samaritans but I never really have time alone where I wouldnt be overheard. Sorry if this sounds pathetic, just a bit down tonight.

On a positive note (and I am trying to be positive!) I now have a room of my own and I'm making it a nice space 😊

A room of your own sounds like a huge step forward Notfrom. Have a . It does indeed sound like there's little hope for the relationship but that's so clearly a positive for you. Imagine a life without Mr Sulky, not only a room of your own but a home of your own and a life of your own. No more worrying about what the miserable old bugger is dreaming up or what he's about to get grumpy about. Just you and the kids and a happy life. Did you get to see the solicitor? And find a counsellor? Step by step, try to do something every day, however small, that moves you closer to that future. And do try to find at least one person in RL to confide in. Things get so muddled and confusing when they are just whirling round in your own head. Onward to freedom!

I would think that your children can see for themselves how he behaves. Also if he says it is your "plan" let that empower you instead of feeling ashamed or defensive - think to yourself yes it is my plan because we are not happy as we are.

As for his claim that you made an ultimatum - why not let that empower you too, even if you didn't. Think yes the ultimatum is he changes or the relationship ends. He obviously has no intention of changing so yes your preference is for the relationship to end.

Well done on making your room a good space for you. Good first step. You will need to make many more steps in the future to safeguard the world for you. Gird your loins.

I would say that you do need to ‘burden’ someone i.e. a friend, with this. This man is not to be trusted. Look how he reneged on your agreement on what to tell the dcs? Do not trust him as far as you can spit. It would be good to have an ally, someone you can confide in, maybe someone who can make you welcome if you need a couple of days to think. They won’t think you are mad. It is useful to have someone who can tell you you have done nothing to deserve this and that his behaviour is appalling, which it certainly is.

He has been your enemy and your bully for years now. He is showing you no respect and you’ve got used to it. You just haven’t believed it possible and you hesitate to believe he is capable of such viciousness. But he is. You have a lot of catching up to do. He treats you with contempt and like you say, is all blame and accusation towards you - not sadness and concern. He doesn’t care about you or the marriage, i’m Sorry to say. What he cares about mainly, is to successfully apportion blame for everything onto you.

I know I sound very dramatic, but really, please do NOT underestimate what he will do to destroy you. He will get very nasty. He is angry that you are finally not taking commands and being successfully deceived. He wants to keep you confused. That’s his strategy. The more confused you are, the less of a ‘threat’ you are to him. And believe me, he is severely threatened by your new refusal to take his nonsense.

Do not share your plans with him. Make no more ‘agreements’ about the dcs - he will pull the rug from under you at any opportunity, with no conscience.

Keep you head down. Go see a solicitor...ask them if they have ever handled an extremely obstructive, manipulative, abusive spouse...and if they haven’t, ask them to recommend you one.

You need to be on a war footing OP. It is shocking that he can do this after 20 years, but you need to get over the shock of realisation ( or at least Park it somewhere while you get a decent therapist) and get on the front foot. He is not your friend.

And yes, find a therapist/counsellor but don’t invite him along and for god’s sake don’t tell him you are seeing one...you need something for yourself for clear thinking and respite from this man.

Thanks Oldstyle, it does feel nice to be taking steps, even if they are very small.

I did see a counsellor but we didn't 'click'. Might look around some more as I had counselling many years ago that was very helpful so I know how it feels when the counselling relationship works.

I chickened out of seeing the solicitor, it felt like too much, too soon but I'm thinking about it again now. I sound very indecisive but it is taking a lot of energy just getting through the days. The support here is very much appreciated.

Interesting ThinkingCat, I had been feeling very defensive about the ultimatum thing but it's true that I can't carry on without major change so I suppose it amounts to the same thing.

PoppyField I absolutely see how nasty this could get. He has already made comments about being 'sorry' that he isn't unfaithful or a drunk so I have no excuse to ditch him. He is making sure I feel unreasonable and know that other people will blame me. To an extent I'm still keeping him sweet to avoid it getting worse. I'm worried about the impact on my ds as this has all come as a shock since I never complained before and always kept the peace.

I feel angry and sad and guilty and fearful and humiliated. Who knew that one person can feel so many things at one time?

It is awful. You are fully entitled to feel angry and sad at the same time. And humiliation is a strong deterrent. Been there. It is excruciating, but you have to push the ‘override’ button on that. Just remember he wants you to feel guilty and humiliated...he knows exactly how to push your buttons.

It is incredibly hard not to be affected as his words are so hurtful. The only thing that’s worth doing is to try in some way to distance yourself from his words and rationalise them...say to yourself ‘He is saying X to try to humiliate me’. ‘ He is saying Y because he wants to scare me’ or ‘He wants to punish my by saying XYZ’. Think about it as if you were watching the scene from above or analyse it as if it was happening to someone else - anything to detach from it.

The only other thing OP is that there are hundreds of women on these pages who have been exactly where you are now. And they can see your H, what he is doing and see right through him. You will get lots of support here.

Small steps. One after the other. Just start. Tell yourself you can get yourself out of this. It is time.

(And don’t start thrashing yourself over the 20 years thing. It doesn’t matter how many years you have sunk into this relationship. HE is happily demolishing it all over the place and you need to get out now.)

other people will blame me

Let them marry him then!

Again I am sure your children will be aware of the tensions and of his behaviour.

Yes, it must be a lot to get your head around after 20 years of being bullied into feeling that his behaviour was somehow ok. And I don't doubt that it's his intention to make you feel guilty and fearful and all the rest. You are doing so well and I agree that Thinking Cat's reversal plan is a really good one. An ultimatum is what he needs, and if he doesn't respond by treating you with kindness and appreciation (at the very least) then there's no point in hanging on to the relationship. I wouldn't worry too much about your DS. Kids are not stupid, they will have seen his moods and been affected by his sulking and unreasonableness, and seen how you always kept the peace and held the home together. I left a difficult marriage when my son was young. It was a huge relief for both of us - no more arguments, no more shouting or sulking - and he's proud of what I have achieved since. I understand that it will take time for you to believe in yourself but I promise you that your life will be so much happier when he's no longer part of it.
Can you decide on tomorrow's small step before you go to sleep tonight and start to take back control? You deserve so much more.

And by all means ‘keep him sweet’..while you are making plans and taking practical steps to be free of him. Get your ducks in a row...as they say a lot on here. Do please see a lawyer...it will make you feel on surer ground, even it it feels momentous and huge.

And you have loads of ‘excuses’ ditch him. You won’t have any problem finding those.

Time to go absolutely ‘grey rock’ OP, give him nothing and detach as much as you possibly can. Use that new room of yours to figure out what you want to happen and then quietly go about making it reality.

Agree with Poppy completely, no more agreements about how to handle things with DC, anything you think they need to know you tell them, no more joint discussions where he has the opportunity to twist things.

Make your plans and get on with them, he is no longer ‘on your side’ so you need to start protecting your own interests

He says if the counsellor tells me I'm in the right I need to look for another counsellor

Says it all really.

He sounds awful and it's more like he wants out of the marriage, but wants it to appear as your fault.

His rush to tell the kids makes me wonder what his agenda is.

I don't know how old your kids are, but I personally would set the record straight just them and I.

That doesn't involve badmouthing your H... just stating facts in simple terms and reassuring them that as parents you'll both be there for them ...or if you don't want to speak for him...give assurances youll always be there for them.

Enjoy your own room! Please don’t clean up after him anymore, let him do his own washing.
DC will either already know what your H is like. If not, they will after you separate because he will not change his ways