DH verbally abused me and won't apologise.

[nomoreragesplease]

I've name changed for this thread, but hardly ever post, so it's taken a lot of courage to post as I'm usually very private, and it's hard to give the whole picture. I don't want to make my DH look really bad, I'd say he's 95% a good husband and parent, he plays with the children much better then me, he does more cooking and shopping. He's doesn't clean or tidy though and sometimes I feel like I'm clearing up after 3 kids. He's very sociable and my friends all think he's great but they don't see his moody side.

DH has occasional rages, I think around 4 times a year, he shouts, has thrown the occasional mug, swears. Apart from the big rages he gets quickly angry and then mutters and swears under his breath, clenches his fists and has bulging eyes (psycho eyes I call it) so he can look pretty intimidating. We always move past them, but this time he won't apologize for calling me a fucking bitch and shouting at me in an intimidating way in front of our children (6 and 8). I'm worried about the effect on them, he blames me for winding him up, and my DS (8) told me to stop winding him up while DH was shouting and swearing at me.

It started over something really trivial, we were on the beach, it was a busy beach, so he has no filter for his behaviour in public but I bet he wouldn't do it in front of his friends. I told him and he said that I wouldn't wind him up in front of his friends. I had to stop talking to him that day (we were about to head home anyway) and got the children to bed.

The next morning he acted as though nothing had happened, I apologised for being rude when he came back with sandwiches (how the argument started, we skipped lunch and agreed we'd go out for a proper dinner, and he'd gone to check out prices at a restaurant, or so I thought, but came back drinking a beer and eating a sandwich, so I said I don't want them, and said that I thought he'd gone to look at the restaurant). I asked him to apologise for shouting and swearing at me, he also squared up to me with fists clenched as though he would hit me (he never has hit me, he just acts intimidating, we've been together 14 years).

He stood there with fists clenched and gritted teeth and said "I'm sorry but you have to apologise to me for calling me a liar (I didn't), and winding me up". I didn't call him a liar and said this and tried to explain that his behaviour was unacceptable whatever I had said. He got shouty again and the children started crying so I dropped it and he went out. We were abroad and coming back that day, so I didn't say any more about it, he tried to act as though nothing had happened, trying to hold my hand, kissing my cheek.

My part in the row was that I won't go meek and submissive, if he shouts at me I will raise my voice in return, but only to be heard, and to tell him not to shout or swear. I didn't call him a liar, but did say repeatedly that I thought he'd gone to check out prices at nearby restaurant, and noted that he had got himself a beer. I didn't mean to be goady, but I think I did call him selfish, he says I did, I don't know now. I definitely did comment that he'd got himself a beer, and that I thought he was going up to check prices and come straight back (restaurant was in view of beach, 5 mins there and back, he was gone at least 20 mins)

I didn't sleep last night thinking I'm sick of his rages, even thought they are only occasional. Last one was May 1/2 term, so 2 months ago.

The children both asked me if we're friends again, and told me they don't want us to split up. I just want my husband to take responsibility for his own loss of temper.

We're supposed to be going out tonight, this morning I said I don't want to go and said he's acting as though nothing happened and his behaviour was ok. He said he doesn't like it when he behaves like that, but he knows it wasn't just about a sandwich, implying again that he isn't responsible.

I know this behaviour isn't ok, but it would be so much easier to do what he's doing and just move on from it without addressing it. We have a nice life together, but every year at some point I think about getting some therapy together, but then things are ok for a few months. When I have mentioned therapy he says we don't need it.

I'm not really sure why I'm posting on here, I don't want to leave him, well if it weren't for our children I think I would. He doesn't seem to realise how bad his behaviour was, and I need some pointers for helping him realise and agree to getting help. Also maybe I was being unreasonable, but I was annoyed he'd been gone so long when we were getting ready to leave the beach.

Thanks to anyone who made it through my post.

Op . You are looking into therapy for him ????
I would look for your children . They are been damaged by this .

I would suspect you walk on eggshells , don’t say things to avoid his response even subconsciously.

Mango, I'm glad you didn't take offence.

I don't want to comment too much further on your relationship, I don't know either you or your husband. All I will say is, please keep your wits about you.

My family were very messed up, including my Grandfather, who, like your husband absolutely couldn't stand violence against women, he always seemed to be defending women who seemed to be stuck in abusive relationships. Always said he'd kill a man if he raised a hand towards my mother. It's ironic though, as he was extremely abusive.

Behaviours can and do creep back in, especially with triggers. So just be on your guard. Hopefully he's a redeemed soul though, and he'll never raise his voice to you or your children another day in his life. Fingers crossed.

But OP, it's very dangerous to believe that this is what can really happen with your own husband.

I won't be bullied into not putting my point of view across. Maybe at times when I can see he's losing his temper I should actually just save the conversation for a time when he's calm again.

But in that second sentence, you are being bullied into doing that. Why is it down to you to keep quiet at the 'wrong' moment, rather than down to him to control his temper?

I am raising my children to be emotionally aware, and talk to them about adults being responsible for managing their own behaviour. DS was copying his Dad in that moment, and I immediately reminded him that DH is responsible for himself and his reaction was inexcusable.

But by staying with this vile man, you're still showing your DS it is ok to put up with abuse. It's not.

DH is not abusive to me at any other time, only on those rare occasions that he gets into a rage. As I say maybe 4 times a year, about 10 mins a time, so that's a tiny percentage of our daily lives. I'm not minimizing...

Yes you are minimising. 4 times a year is not acceptable.The only level of abuse that is acceptable is ZERO amount.

..."and he doesn't usually verbally abuse me personally. He usually shouts 'fuck off' and goes out to get some space / have a smoke. .

Shouting "fuck off" is verbal abuse and is not acceptable and grossly disrespectful. It is not acceptable for your children to hear such foul language or see you, their mother, put up with being treated with disrepect. This is how your DS will treat his own partner in years to come having grown up accepting it as the norm. It is NOT normal.My husband has never said that to me in his life and if he did I would not put up with it.

Maybe at times when I can see he's losing his temper I should actually just save the conversation for a time when he's calm again.

You're adapting your behaviour to avoid conflict. You shouldn't feel you have to do this.

BUT he does have a problem managing his temper. I don't feel as though I'm walking on eggshells with him at all as I did on a daily basis with my Dad.

To quote another thread on here, just because your dad was a level 10 bastard doesn't mean you have to accept your husband being a level 8 bastard.

Having come from an abusive family I do wonder about other peoples lives - are all the men shouting at their partners in secret?

No they are not. My dad worshipped the ground my mum walked on and would never have treated her so appallingly.

DH and I have been married for over thirty years and he has never shouted at me. He is disgusted to hear about men who abuse their wives/partners, as all decent men are.

Read this thread OP especially the opening post.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

Please don't go to therapy together. I spent years trying to work things out with my ex. All it did was feed him with information he would use against me. I used to think he had changed. How wrong I was. I was also aware that in therapy we seemed to be going round and round like a mouse on a wheel. These abusers are very good at what they do. They have practiced for a long, long time. They are like heat-seeking missiles.

He needs to want to seek therapy for himself, not go because you've found one for him.

YOU are looking for therapy for HIM? He should be addressing this problem himself. He is not taking responsibility for his own problems. This has nothing to do with you.

You sound like an intelligent person who can see things from not just your own side. You sound like you are really trying to have a balanced view of the problems. But they are not relationship problems, they are your DH's problems.

Well done for refusing to back down. Yes, you could probably get your point across if you wait till you have both calmed down, I agree with that. But there is a fine balance between just taking it and waiting for the storm to calm, isn't there?

"Winding him up" - that's something you could say about a small child, not a grown man. My ex used to say "You made me", but he did eventually see the problem with this.

Re the effect on your DC - they do as you do, not as you say. I can see my DC more or less acting out arguments I had with their DF/my ex. It kills me that they have taken over our pattern. I don't know if they will carry this into their relationships when they are grown ups.

OP, I know a lot of this must be hard to read so I really hope you’re ok

Please don’t feel that you have to stop posting if you don’t agree with people’s take on things. Everyone really does just want to help.