Religious BIL isolating sister and reading her email - wwyd?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

DSis and I have not had masses of contact in recent years. She lives in another country and has struggled with fertility, including losing twins last year. DH and I have 3 under 3.5 inc twins so I tend not to want to message her about my stuff as I don't want to rub it in.

A few months since, DSis announced that BIL had rediscovered his family's religion and got really into it. Then DSis did too, praying regularly, going to special women's religious lessons, learning scripture. Recently my other sister visited and said DSis now veils when she goes to worship. Also her new spiritual leaders seem to have told her she wasn't able to have a baby as she and BIL weren't properly married, ie in their faith group.

A couple of weeks ago, DSis emailed to say she and BIL had "got married" (they have been legally married for yonks but in the eyes of their faith now). We hadn't been invited but BIL family who are the same religion were there. When my mum emailed to ask for pics, BIL emailed back (from DSis email!). Turns out he now spies on shares her email acct as they share everything now, as a "truly married" couple.

Our other sis invited DSis to come stay with her for a bit but DSis won't as she doesn't want to miss worship even for one week

Aibu to be concerned? And wwyd?

Which country is she based in?

The US, Honey. Why?

I would be concerned. It sounds extremely controlling.

Obviously you can't go back in time, but I wouldn't see staying in contact with her as rubbing anything in. It's just maintaining a relationship. Being isolated makes people more vulnerable. I'd want to change that going forward.

If she's been struggling with the fertility, I can see how any explanation would be something she'd be more likely to grasp at. The fervour of what you describe would make me concerned st how much pressure and manipulation had been going on from behind closed doors from BIL.

Criticising, or seeming to be critical, of the path she's on will likely just make her more defensive and shut you out. All you can really do, I think is stay part of her life, so her social contact doesn't narrow so much the only influences in her life are from within that one limited circle.

If you're worried, rather than giving her your own opinions, ask her questions that will get her thinking or give her the opportunity to share with you her own views. Sow the seeds of alternative views, and leave a way open if she changes her mind later so she won't feel embarrassed or isolate if she wants to pull back on .

All of that said, it might just be that this is how she's coping with what she's been through, and it's providing a source of comfort.

But the email thing would set alarm bells ringing for me. Religion as an excuse to control your wife.

You might find the advice here helpful: www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/im-worried-about-someone-else/

Basically, don't pass judgement, don't tell her what to do, don't let yourself get cut out, be there for her as a supportive and non judgemental presence in her life. Think about the ways you can share your life with her without it all being about children. Trying to "hide" that side of your life from her might actually be emphasising to her that it hasn't worked out for her.

Oh, and as for visits, could you see if there's somewhere local where she could worship while visiting and pass on the details? If that's not the real reason you'd then have a better indication of how things are, and it would be an opportunity to reinforce to her that you love her as she is. (Important if she's got people/BIL in her ear suggesting otherwise.)

Gruffalina

That sounds like wise advice.

I am going to try and email more often. I want her to know she has someone to turn to. But obvs I now know bil is reading her emails amd the last time we skyped, I thought she was alone but then bil suddenly loomed into view onscreen. DM says she feels like bil is warning us to be careful what we say.

As for visiting, it was my other sister who invited her. OtherSis lives in NY and the religion in question is Catholicism! NY is not precisely lacking in Catholics so to me that is a pretty threadbare excuse

Catholicism?! Sounds more like a cult to me!
I’m a catholic and grew up in the faith. Don’t know anyone who goes on like that.

I'm Catholic too, veiled? Very strange, and it does sound cultish.

Yeah my Irish RC friends said that! It is a v small church in a rural location and run by some monks. There are nuns too but they can't be seen by the public apparently so attend the church behind some type of screen thing.

It is some monseigneur (?? I think) who seems to be the driver behind a lot of this but I don't know much about the RC faith so not sure what his role/ rank is.

Hopefully your Dsis will be okay and she's just temporarily clinging ok to a belief that something might help her have her baby.

Just be there for her as much as you can via Skype or email and don't mention her DH only if to say you're asking after him

This sounds like some fundamental offshoot of the Catholic Church. Coercive control is not something that is condoned by the Vatican. Veils were scrapped at Vatican II and there is no central church teaching that women have to be a part of the church to be fertile.

Honestly, this church sounds like it is has hijacked Catholicism to suit its own ends. It’s nothing more than a cult.

Tbf Janice I don't necessarily think the church is telling bil to be co trolling as such. That might just be him.

It is just hard as she is so far away and if she once takes against us, I am afraid we will just lose her.

Is there any other sign of controlling behaviour? It's just that DH and I would reply to family emails together/ for each other. We have plenty of of privacy in other ways but if the computer was up and email from sil came through I'd happily call out to him about it and then reply. Not sure that one reply to email alone is necessarily controlling although it could be

I think is more her sudden desperation to cling to the religion. She's the one who's saying she doesn't want to come and wants to stay and worship.

I agree with Pp it's really difficult and I can understand the need to seek faith in something after losing children.

Could you go visit her? Stay in a hotel and not just visitnand show support. She can still go to mass and you could even offer to pop along to one.

That way she won't feel judged and might open up later on if she needs it and you can get a feel for what kind of church it is

Nellly there are no hotels where she is. She lives on a farm about 3-4 miles away from the nearest village which has a green, a general store, a bar and a handful of houses. It is also v v expensive and hard to travel 3k miles with baby twins and a preschooler.

I understand her need for faith but am afraid it is cutting her off.

Do you have the name of the church/service she visits? You could google it to see if there is anything cult-like going on. Like the Westboro Baptist lot.

As you know he lurks out of view when on Skype, can you start calling her on WhatsApp (free phone calls on WiFi), when you know he's at work or out? You can usually tell when someone has you on loudspeaker, so you could avoid being overheard.

I don't tbhink it is a cult as such - just v old fashioned RC. The mass is partially in Latin according to OtherSis.

I don't know its name.

I would certainly visit. Be extra nice and understanding and pleased for her and watch how bil behaves.
Also bare in mind she may genuinely be happy?

I don't tbhink it is a cult as such - just v old fashioned RC. The mass is partially in Latin according to OtherSis.

That is closer to a cult than catholicism. Some churches have permission to use the tridentine mass (latin) but this sounds like a fundamentalist off shoot - doubt any bishop is overseeing this. There are splinter catholic groups.

I think all you can do is stay in touch with her as much as possible.

You could check what it might be based on state here: latinmassschedule.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=54&Itemid=2

That sounds like an ultra conservative Catholic sect such as Opus Dei or Legionaires of Christ (yes, really). There are others but either way saying mass in Latin is not a good sign; not that the Catholic church is a beacon of enlightened attitudes towards women, but the sects that reject the reforms from the 60s are even worse.

Apparently veils are becoming some kind of minor trend in parts of the US for young Catholic women: fashionista.com/2017/12/millennial-catholics-chapel-veils

I had coffee with my Irish friend today and she said the whole thing sounds like her granny's churchgoing in the 40s.

advice but I don't think I can visit. How can I? There is nowhere to stay, I would have to take 3 dc under 3.5 with me, inc 4mo bf twins who are under consultant care and don't have passports, I would somehow have to hire a car with 3 reliable child seats and even if I got past all that, we simply don't have the money. To fly to the US and take internal flights to where DSis is would be thousands of pounds and I don't have that money.

I'm Catholic. This sounds more like a cult though. Catholics cab worship in any RC Church and there are many all over the world.... so that's no excuse and I cannot believe a Roman Catholic priest would attribute her infertility to not being married in the church.

Sorry...but it sounds very suspicious to me.

Keep emails very light and see if you can call her when he's not around.

Doesn’t sound like any Catholic Church I’ve heard of. It really does sound like a cult. What’s ringing alarm bells for me is that they’d eem to be using her pain of losing twins and not having her own baby as a way to lock her in. No church would blame fertility on wether they were married in a specific church or not. Also, there are Catholic Churches all over the world, that’s not a valid reason not to travel. Just keep in contact and don’t let that contact go.

Catholic convert here - agree with other RC's that it sounds a dodgy set up. Not helped of course by BIL's behaviour as a creepy control freak, and Gruffalina gives excellent advice on how to navigate this and be there for your sis. One other approach that springs to my mind because of the faith situation would be to alert the real Catholic pastoral system about her. Her home will be in a Catholic parish in a Catholic diocese - get your other sis to try and identify it and contact the "official" Catholic priest so that she's on his radar hopefully for a pastoral visit - or visits from proper nuns or the local Catholic Women's league.Or your sis could ask the diocese in NY for advice about who to contact. Wishing you both well in your endeavours

My Dad was massively into Opus Dei and this doesn’t sound like them. Their about making your work part of your connection with God and, whilst socially very conservative and quite domineering, they aren’t that controlling. My mum never signed up, and it wasn’t unusual for only one half of a couple to be involved. My dad worshipped at a normal church etc. OD are very much in the world - that’s how they recruit