Abusive relationship with DSis, can't go on like this

[SeamusFinnigan]

Hi everyone! Have name changed for this because I'm worried about outing myself. I don't post often but I really enjoy this site and post occasionally and could really do with some perspective on my relationship with my sister as it's tearing me apart inside. Sorry in advance as this may get very long but I want to explain the situation as best I can.

First of all, I must admit I feel a bit ridiculous saying this, but I feel that I'm being emotionally abused by my youngest sister and that I have been for quite a few years. For a bit of background: we are a large and close immediate family, I'm one of five kids, our parents are still together and we all see each other frequently. I'm 28 and my sister is 21, she's the youngest in the family, incredibly intelligent and confident and studying at a top university. I actually moved abroad a few years ago for work but regularly come home to the UK either for projects (freelance creative job) or purely to spend time with the family. Sometimes I'm joined by my wonderful DP for these visits. All of us siblings are married or happy with partners except youngest DSis. I absolutely adore my family and cherish time spent with them which is why the DSis thing is so hard for me.

In general I am a confident person. I have a lot of lovely friends, a great partner, I am generally well-liked and respected in my field of work although what I do is a very competitive industry and as such I deal with the usual rejection and being passed over for things etc which no one likes but you pick yourself up! In my normal life I feel like a strong, happy, accomplished person still striving to achieve more. However when I'm around her... no one can manage to make me feel such a pathetic loser. She has this unique ability to choose things to say that will cut deep to my core, zap me of confidence in seconds and leave me questioning my worth and whether I'm the black sheep of the family. (I actually feel pathetic even typing that, that someone 7 years younger than me manages to do that). Sometimes my parents or siblings will witness her explosions at me (more on that later) but she saves the really cutting remarks for when we're alone and I feel like I'm going crazy.

So, the explosions. She is openly quite a volatile character and will 'fly off the handle' quite frequently if someone annoys her but with the rest of the family she'll rage for a minute or two then simmer down and she'll be laughing again shortly afterwards. With me the rages turn into huge personal attacks and have often led to me eg leaving dessert because I can't hold back the tears. My family will sometimes tell her to apologise or whatever but I feel (and don't really know how to articulate this) as though somehow they just see us as particularly 'rivalling' siblings who just spar frequently. But the thing is that these situations are never 'arguments' in that we both get angry, say our piece etc, I am just attacked and it's impossible to say anything at all as I just get shouted down and I'm really not a loud or shouty person. Although she doesn't let the mask slip around people outside the family usually, recently she had one of her explosions at me when my DP was there (she stormed out before he or I could say anything) so he has seen what she can he like. He told me she's horrendously immature and I need to 'stand up for myself' and crush her nonsense but I just don't know how when she's a very shouty person and I'm naturally milder, she's also extremely intelligent whereas I panic and find it really difficult to string a sentence together when I feel under attack... she was very good at debating in school and so my DM encouraged her to argue whereas I was never encouraged to learn that iyswim. I think my DM was embarrassed in front of my DP so rather irritatingly apologised with a tinkly laugh for 'my daughters and their bickering'. I tried to say well wtf - there was no "bicker", I just got shouted at over a perceived facial expression, I didn't get a single word in and she stormed out while I stood there literally gaping. My DM did admit the next day that she can see that my sister's behaviour towards me is 'semi-abusive' but she doesn't know what to do and she tries to ignore it because we're generally such a close family who get on very well.

Other things she does include:

• any time we go out somewhere (shopping, to a restaurant, family event, whatever) with all or some of our immediate family, she makes every effort to 'freeze me out' of the event. It sounds so silly I know... examples include: 1. physically blocking me from speaking to other family members at a table by turning her entire body in our way and talking over me when I speak or snapping at me if I say 'oh can I just talk to X for a second'. 2. Taking issue with something small about me and saying it to every sibling/parent present. Recent example is 'I cant stand the sound of her high heels on the ground, can she just walk behind us'. And if I speak either a. Shouting over me, b. Negating what I've said and saying I'm stupid (even if the point she then comes up with is literally what I've just said) or c. Rolling her eyes (the least hurtful one really!) It just makes me feel a bit shit because I feel like if I point these issues out I'll sound overly paranoid or I'll cause a huge confrontation and be part of the problem, yet my other option (and what's gradually happening) is that I just talk less and less in these situations when she's there and go quieter. So I feel like I can't really be myself around my own family. I'm the only family member she treats like this.

I suppose with the above things I might think ok she's just a volatile argumentative person. But I'm the only person she treats like this. To our brothers and other sister, other than the very occasional sibling-scrap, she shows respect and allows them to have 'banter' with her, whereas the slightest joke from me often just provokes a tirade on how stupid I am. Worse still, she literally waxes lyrical to me and my parents about how amazing my siblings and their other halves are whilst she ignores the existence of my DP and once on a drunken tirade told me that we were 'disgusting' and tries to ensure that he is out of his depth conversationally when the family is together as she holds court conversationally and just brings up 'in jokes' that he wouldn't understand.

She sneers at me and my career. I'm by no means rich but I love my work, work hard, make a decent living and DP and I live within our means. Im just not a 'big house and fancy car' type of person. But there are constant remarks about me being a loser, a 'broke bitch', not having a job (despite the fact that I do not being cool etc. My siblings and I have all worked really hard in varying fields and we're always interested to hear about each other's work but then she ridicules mine to such an extent that I feel it tearing my confidence away... my field requires a lot of self-esteem and motivation (don't want to specify what it is and out myself further!) and I actually have worked on building up my confidence over the years and every time I see her it's like the wall is just knocked down again. And I just think why do I allow this?

Then, bizarrely, there are episodes where she'll be completely OTT affectionate to me. Eg drunk texting me how much she loves me and is glad I'm her sister etc, crying to me every time a boy upsets her, randomly asking me if I love my DP more than I love her. She has also opened up to me about her own issues and I really want to be there for her and have talked alot of things through with her. If we're having a heart to heart and she says eg 'whatever you might think, I do love you so much' and if I say 'well I know but when you did X recently it did actually upset me' she'll then say I'm crazy, playing the victim, what I'm saying never happened etc etc.

She very often asks me for favours; to post her things she likes from the country where I usually live, or driving her around to places when we're both in UK as she can't drive and it's 'too much' for her to get herself to certain places. Most recently she asked me to come and provide my work for free at an event she was doing at university so I agreed. In the time since I did this there has been the usual treatment and I just feel like such a mug for doing things for her that I would for my other siblings when she has just decided that I'm not worthy of respect. I have thought that I probably have to start saying no as a rule when she asks me for things. It's going to be difficult but it may be the best start.

So if you've read this far thank you soo much and you deserve copious amounts of !!! If we weren't a close knit family and my family life wasn't so incredibly precious to me I'd probably avoid her at all costs and just not visit. I mean, if she were a friend I think I'd just go NC. But my time with my family is something I look forward to the whole time I'm not with them and I just cherish them so much. I don't know what I've done to be pushed out like this and I sometimes wonder if I'm going crazy and it's normal sister life, but she just loves our other DSis so much and our DBs too. It's been like this with her for about the past 5 years, but when it started her moods with me were so much rarer, and it has really increased to where we are now, with me on eggshells and every word I speak in the home being either sneered at or shouted at. I just don't know what solution there could be to tackle this behaviour without upsetting the dynamic amongst the rest of the family and descending into us actually just 'arguing'. If that makes any sense.

I'm sorry this is so long. I could just do with any outside perspective because I just feel quite on my own with this.

It's a bit late for me so I'm bookmarking this to come back to tomorrow. I really feel for you.

HollowTalk thank you so much - as ridiculous as it may sound even reading a short response that suggests I'm not 'crazy' for feeling this way is like a weight off my shoulders!

I think she's jealous of you and this is her way of dealing with it.
She's immature and needs to grow up!
But you need to grow a back bone and stand up to her
Yes she's treating you like crap BUT your letting her do it.
Stop being her punching bag!

Quick response from me too - she sounds horrible. You sound lovely. I don't know what you can do but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can help. But her behaviour towards you is awful. I felt so sad for you when she wanted you to walk behind everyone!

Have your other siblings ever commented on this? Have you ever discussed it with them?

Can you see family members separately? It seems like she gets off on putting you down in front of your family- cut that option out by not seeing her with family. When you see her alone the first time she lays into you tell her you will not tolerate any abusive language and remember this is her projecting- whatever she says about you says nothing about you. When she continues (coz it sounds like she will) leave. Follow up with s letter letting her know you will not tolerate this and you expect an apology and an end to such awful hostility. Let her throw her toys out of her pram and continue. Hold strong even when others try to bring it up ‘it’s between me and ds, I would rather not discuss it etc’.

Your Op is so sad, I really want this not to be a problem for you anymore.

I agree she's jealous

There are people in this world who are vampires- they gain energy from our pain and suffering- cut off their energy, you don’t have to feel pain and suffering and she will stop. Go grey rock on her as another option.

She sounds horrific. I think you have to go as NC with her as possible. For example, don’t sit near her at a table. Sit opposite ends. Don’t let her overtalk you. If she interrupts, you just keep going until you’ve finished what you are saying. You then turn calmly and say “now it’s your turn”. She’s basically a spoiled little cow who is beingindulged by everyone. You need to minimise her, her outbursts and her opinions. Maybe get some counselling to help with this. When you are all together, don’t be in a room alone with her. You walkout, when she walks in. Subtle and constant avoidance. If she blows up, you say “there she goes again”and then ignore it. You might want to read up on how to deal with angry toddler behaviour because it’s basically the same thing. Don’t answer any messages from her. Don’t talk outside of family gatherings. If she asks a question you say “I’m swamped at work, I’ll get back to you” and don’t. You minimise and go “grey rock” with her. You step up extra contact with the other siblings. You don’t always have to meet in a group including her. Invite them to one on one things with you and your DP. Build up those relationships so they are much stronger. It’s subtle things like this that will work. Everytime she tries to engage you or put you down you “Paddington bear” stare her out. With a sarcastic “let us know when you’re finished your toddler rant”. Don’t do the shocked, open mouthed “can you believe it!!” reaction...that’s what she wants. Drama. You know she’s capable of it so no more emo over reaction shocked stuff. From now on your response is sigh, “she’s pathetic” “and she’s at it again” sarcasm. Don’t engage or indulge. Do nothing at all for her. If she asks a favour you could say “when we have 3 consecutive meet ups without you doing a toddler style rant, then I’ll consider your request. Until then the answer is no. Naughty children don’t get what they want” time to rip off the band aid.

I agree with Cawfee 110% - absolutely spot on.

She’s an immature little bitch and you need to stand your ground.

Just learn to say no to her. Don't shout if that's not your style, but stop trying to win her approval. 'No, i can't take you to xxx. You were a right cunt to me the other evening. I am sick and tired of you speaking to/about me like that' . Do it EVERY time she is up to her tricks. She treats you like shit because you let her, consequence free. Do stand up to her. She sounds like and entitled brat. Call your mum on it too.

I have an older sister who was like this. I think she was also jealous of me

I think Cawfee gives really really great advice. The other advice I would have is to have your partner watch your back when out with her.

My situation didn't resolve until I had a major blow up with her in which I did not back down.

Could you ask one of your siblings for help with this?

Thank you all so much - I feel as though I'm gaining strength reading your replies.

Cawfee you're right. She often (in her better moods) makes jokes about how she 'lives for drama' so I've walked right into her trap when I think about it that way! Thank you so much for your ideas of how to deal with it.

CheekyandFreaky (love your username btw! ) thank you for your lovely reply. It's hard to fully avoid her because when I'm staying in the UK and when she's home from uni we tend to stay at the main family home but something that could work is me staying with friends or our other DSis and choosing who I spend time with. I like your ideas of what to say to her.

Thanks all. You're really making me feel less alone, and that my feelings are being taken seriously, and that just means so much!

Operation no more doormat begins!

My sister's specialty was to fuck me out of it utterly unreasonably. Then call me back the next day and apologise like this:

"I know I shouldn't have said that but ... " followed by a complete justification of why she said what she said. her apologies would end up with me telling her she was great. she wasn't. that is gone now too.

Omg pallisers this sounds eerily similar - the whole 'OK sorry for blowing up but you...' blah blah blah. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that too.
I've always allowed the air to be cleared without any consequences for her and youre all right, that's what needs to change

I think you should print and laminate Cawfee's post. Your sister sounds nasty and spoilt, but your mum does seem to see it and I bet other members of the family do too, but as you are all so close and you do not live near them all the time they probably don't want to draw attention to the issue either.

So, you're the oldest. She's the youngest. She needs to prove to herself, and you, that you aren't top of the tree.

You've got a dp. She hasn't - not surprising really!

You live abroad. We don't know which country but it doesn't matter really. Abroad is exotic, adventurous, much more exciting than England.

You can drive. She can't! (Really? And her such a clever woman).

And you work and earn a good living (doing whatever it is you do). I know she does as well, but actually there's not much she can criticise you for. The sound your heels make when you walk ffs!

She's insecure and jealous, and obviously you're the main threat so she takes it out on you.

I would suggest you work out some clever answers to her ready for when she next starts her nonsense. Then you've got something ready at the tip of your tongue to hit back with. I expect the family are quite embarrassed when she starts
and they'd be quite pleased if you stood up for yourself, calmly and smartly.

She's very, very jealous. She comes to you with her problems because really, you're "the smart one". You're off, living the dream. Life abroad, interesting career that you love, jet setting around. She's also jealous of your DP (the whole demanding you reassure her that you love her more is pathetic) and the life you are making together.

There are some great suggestions above. You need to work on your Superior Older Sister persona. Remember, that's how she actually sees you!

Distance. You need to involve her in your life a lot lot less.

You need a script to rehearse to shut her down when she starts on you. This helps if you freeze under attack. It's up to you what you say in your script, whether it's a mature and reasoned "Please stop being so rude now" or something much harsher like "Shut up spinster student girl". I don't know your sister and how she'd react to either so I really can't advise but I have a very cutting tongue that I only use on occasions when I absolutely have to. It developed while I was dealing with school bullies 30 years ago and it left them open-mouthed, and left me bully free.

Whatever script you come up with is YOURS to use, and when you use it, remember that YOU are in control of it. Rehearse it before hand so you are confident with it.

I had a very similar dynamic with my sister who is also the youngest (and completely spoilt and indulged - she's over 40 and still my mum is DAILY bailing her out of some mess or another).

It's a combination of jealousy and your parents ALLOWING her to behave this way. It should have been dealt with when she was much younger (I'm sure if you look back you'll realise the family was expected to placate and appease her because she was the youngest and 'doesn't know better' 🙄 - fine - then parent her so she learns!)

It is not the only reason but is one of the main reasons I am now Nc.

It did improve slightly when I caught onto myself (as an adult) putting up with it - and even then it was tricky as mum would defend her.

Funnily enough it was me calmly walking away - and her REFUSAL to accept that, following me and then assaulting me that led to my mum starting to realise how bad she is. I literally said not a word - not a sigh, no rolling eyes, nothing. We were out for a meal as a family and she started and I just got up and walked away and she lost it! Because how dare I not fulfil my role as scapegoat? Not feed her need to be a drama queen and centre of attention as a 'victim'.

That was the 2nd time I went Nc.

I'd gone Nc before because of similar behaviour.

This is the 3rd time and her behaviour was WORSE and she cocked up because mum saw (she didn't know mum saw) and so this time mum isn't putting the pressure on to reconnect.

Hopefully your sister won't be the same. My family is massively dysfunctional.

I'm with cawfee - don't feed the monster.

In addition to it giving her no way to blame you, it will make it obvious to others how utterly ridiculous she is being.

So

She explodes - you walk away, or calmly, quietly BUT authoritatively say 'there was absolutely no need for that. I did not deserve that. Do not speak to me like that'

If she talks over/interrupts you 'excuse me I was speaking first, you can speak when I have finished'

Sit away from her at meals etc, but if she is rude say so

'Do not turn your back to me that is rude'

'Don't roll your eyes if there is a problem talk to me like an adult'

The heels incident - 'don't talk about me as if I'm not here that's rude. No I will not walk behind you I am not your inferior'

Her comments on your supposed lack of wealth 'how I choose to live my life is none of your business.' And 'money isn't everything' I'd also be tempted to say something like 'where's your mansion and Porsche?' Seeing as she's still at uni/home. Or 'you have no idea as yet of life in the real adult world, so should refrain from commenting.'

Frankly with an attitude like hers I'll be surprised if she manages to even hold down a job after uni - my sister never has yet STILL has an attitude that she's better than everyone.

Stop being her shoulder to cry on she doesn't appreciate it and I'd lay odds she uses things you say in these moments against you.

Stop doing her favours - and NEVER do what is your job for free for ANYONE - if you don't value it why should they?

You've done nothing to deserve this.

You say she's not like this with other siblings, would they tolerate this? I am guessing not. We have a middle brother who my sister wouldn't dare speak to like this - because he'd call her out on it EVERY TIME.

It started 5 years ago? What changed then? Did you move out? Meet your partner? Get your job? Emigrate?

This is the NC I use for talking about my sister. I find your OP fascinating because you could be me writing about my sister, almost exactly, from rages at perceived facial expressions, any excuse to sneer, belittle or criticise, attempts to freeze me out at family events. And then this over the top insincere affection. Dealing with her is like dealing with an abusive spouse.
The last event I went to with her I took a Valium to get through it and felt stoned
Various but not all family members are fully aware, some don’t know but the ones that do, though they agree there’s a massive issue have never really challenged her to my defence - it makes it worse, as though silence is a tacit endorsement

I don’t know what advice to give you that I don’t also need. I joined MN about 2 years ago and at the time there was a discussion that the phrase Narcissistic Personality Disorder was bandied about too much. But I googled and it just was her to a tee

Later someone mentioned Grey Rock Technique and when I googled that I realised I’d been doing it on my own for ages without knowing it had a name

It isn’t foolproof and it doesn’t always work but it has had the biggest success rate

I don’t feel good about saying it, but it’s gone on so long that I think she’s a sociopath and I hate her

OMG how horrible!
I’d email her and explain that as much as you love her you will not stand for the way she treats you. If she starts a tirade - roll your eyes yawn and walk away.
If in a social setting, I’d also walk away if she starts talking over you or any other nonsense 💐

You need to sit her down with no one else there and calmly tell her exactly what you've said here. Keep it restrained and factual. If she interrupts and starts ranting, let her finish and then just continue on with what you need to say, ignoring any shouting and crying.

When you've finished, explain that next time she behaves in an inappropriate way you will get up and walk out. Then do this, no matter how awkward or inconvenient.

I really wouldn't bother rehearsing clever replies or put downs. Any mild comments just completely ignore, glaze over, immediately start talking to someone else as if she hadn't spoken. Anything actually nasty, you are out of there.

Agree with everyone else, she needs to feel the consequences of her behaviour; don't let your dps make you feel bad - they have helped to create this situation!

Can you be frank with her and say I'd like us to have a chat on this date and then speak to her direct. Have some examples of her behaviour but be grown up about it. Ask her what's bothering her about you as it's obvious there's an issue and you want to solve it - rise above the bike.

She's still only young too. 21 is difficult really. She probably feels a lot of pressure on her shoulders. Also no partner. Do you know her relationship history - maybe she's got some issues of her own and taking it out on you as the oldest?

Finally speak to other sisters or your mum but maybe ask if they've seen a change in little sis or if she has mentioned anything was up?

How long has this been going on for?

You sound very rational about this all wel ldome xxx

I would actively recruit support from the other siblings. Tell them how you are feeling. Your parents have clearest up a dynamic where everyone tiptoes around her, so they may resist any change in the balance.
Stay calm and stay detached. If she emails asking for something then just calmly reply, actually after the way you spoke to me I won't be doing favours for a while. Don't enter into any discussion, just stay detached and keep calmly repeating the message.
She may escalate to try to get your parents on side or she may turn on a different sibling. But the status quo is so bad for you that you have nothing to lose.