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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive relationship with DSis, can't go on like this

70 replies

SeamusFinnigan · 30/06/2018 23:23

Hi everyone! Have name changed for this because I'm worried about outing myself. I don't post often but I really enjoy this site and post occasionally and could really do with some perspective on my relationship with my sister as it's tearing me apart inside. Sorry in advance as this may get very long but I want to explain the situation as best I can.

First of all, I must admit I feel a bit ridiculous saying this, but I feel that I'm being emotionally abused by my youngest sister and that I have been for quite a few years. For a bit of background: we are a large and close immediate family, I'm one of five kids, our parents are still together and we all see each other frequently. I'm 28 and my sister is 21, she's the youngest in the family, incredibly intelligent and confident and studying at a top university. I actually moved abroad a few years ago for work but regularly come home to the UK either for projects (freelance creative job) or purely to spend time with the family. Sometimes I'm joined by my wonderful DP for these visits. All of us siblings are married or happy with partners except youngest DSis. I absolutely adore my family and cherish time spent with them which is why the DSis thing is so hard for me.

In general I am a confident person. I have a lot of lovely friends, a great partner, I am generally well-liked and respected in my field of work although what I do is a very competitive industry and as such I deal with the usual rejection and being passed over for things etc which no one likes but you pick yourself up! In my normal life I feel like a strong, happy, accomplished person still striving to achieve more. However when I'm around her... no one can manage to make me feel such a pathetic loser. She has this unique ability to choose things to say that will cut deep to my core, zap me of confidence in seconds and leave me questioning my worth and whether I'm the black sheep of the family. (I actually feel pathetic even typing that, that someone 7 years younger than me manages to do that). Sometimes my parents or siblings will witness her explosions at me (more on that later) but she saves the really cutting remarks for when we're alone and I feel like I'm going crazy.

So, the explosions. She is openly quite a volatile character and will 'fly off the handle' quite frequently if someone annoys her but with the rest of the family she'll rage for a minute or two then simmer down and she'll be laughing again shortly afterwards. With me the rages turn into huge personal attacks and have often led to me eg leaving dessert because I can't hold back the tears. My family will sometimes tell her to apologise or whatever but I feel (and don't really know how to articulate this) as though somehow they just see us as particularly 'rivalling' siblings who just spar frequently. But the thing is that these situations are never 'arguments' in that we both get angry, say our piece etc, I am just attacked and it's impossible to say anything at all as I just get shouted down and I'm really not a loud or shouty person. Although she doesn't let the mask slip around people outside the family usually, recently she had one of her explosions at me when my DP was there (she stormed out before he or I could say anything) so he has seen what she can he like. He told me she's horrendously immature and I need to 'stand up for myself' and crush her nonsense but I just don't know how when she's a very shouty person and I'm naturally milder, she's also extremely intelligent whereas I panic and find it really difficult to string a sentence together when I feel under attack... she was very good at debating in school and so my DM encouraged her to argue whereas I was never encouraged to learn that iyswim. I think my DM was embarrassed in front of my DP so rather irritatingly apologised with a tinkly laugh for 'my daughters and their bickering'. I tried to say well wtf - there was no "bicker", I just got shouted at over a perceived facial expression, I didn't get a single word in and she stormed out while I stood there literally gaping. My DM did admit the next day that she can see that my sister's behaviour towards me is 'semi-abusive' but she doesn't know what to do and she tries to ignore it because we're generally such a close family who get on very well.

Other things she does include:

  • any time we go out somewhere (shopping, to a restaurant, family event, whatever) with all or some of our immediate family, she makes every effort to 'freeze me out' of the event. It sounds so silly I know... examples include: 1. physically blocking me from speaking to other family members at a table by turning her entire body in our way and talking over me when I speak or snapping at me if I say 'oh can I just talk to X for a second'. 2. Taking issue with something small about me and saying it to every sibling/parent present. Recent example is 'I cant stand the sound of her high heels on the ground, can she just walk behind us'. And if I speak either a. Shouting over me, b. Negating what I've said and saying I'm stupid (even if the point she then comes up with is literally what I've just said) or c. Rolling her eyes (the least hurtful one really!) It just makes me feel a bit shit because I feel like if I point these issues out I'll sound overly paranoid or I'll cause a huge confrontation and be part of the problem, yet my other option (and what's gradually happening) is that I just talk less and less in these situations when she's there and go quieter. So I feel like I can't really be myself around my own family. I'm the only family member she treats like this.

I suppose with the above things I might think ok she's just a volatile argumentative person. But I'm the only person she treats like this. To our brothers and other sister, other than the very occasional sibling-scrap, she shows respect and allows them to have 'banter' with her, whereas the slightest joke from me often just provokes a tirade on how stupid I am. Worse still, she literally waxes lyrical to me and my parents about how amazing my siblings and their other halves are whilst she ignores the existence of my DP and once on a drunken tirade told me that we were 'disgusting' Confused and tries to ensure that he is out of his depth conversationally when the family is together as she holds court conversationally and just brings up 'in jokes' that he wouldn't understand.

She sneers at me and my career. I'm by no means rich but I love my work, work hard, make a decent living and DP and I live within our means. Im just not a 'big house and fancy car' type of person. But there are constant remarks about me being a loser, a 'broke bitch', not having a job (despite the fact that I do Hmm not being cool etc. My siblings and I have all worked really hard in varying fields and we're always interested to hear about each other's work but then she ridicules mine to such an extent that I feel it tearing my confidence away... my field requires a lot of self-esteem and motivation (don't want to specify what it is and out myself further!) and I actually have worked on building up my confidence over the years and every time I see her it's like the wall is just knocked down again. And I just think why do I allow this?

Then, bizarrely, there are episodes where she'll be completely OTT affectionate to me. Eg drunk texting me how much she loves me and is glad I'm her sister etc, crying to me every time a boy upsets her, randomly asking me if I love my DP more than I love her. She has also opened up to me about her own issues and I really want to be there for her and have talked alot of things through with her. If we're having a heart to heart and she says eg 'whatever you might think, I do love you so much' and if I say 'well I know but when you did X recently it did actually upset me' she'll then say I'm crazy, playing the victim, what I'm saying never happened etc etc.

She very often asks me for favours; to post her things she likes from the country where I usually live, or driving her around to places when we're both in UK as she can't drive and it's 'too much' for her to get herself to certain places. Most recently she asked me to come and provide my work for free at an event she was doing at university so I agreed. In the time since I did this there has been the usual treatment and I just feel like such a mug for doing things for her that I would for my other siblings when she has just decided that I'm not worthy of respect. I have thought that I probably have to start saying no as a rule when she asks me for things. It's going to be difficult but it may be the best start.

So if you've read this far thank you soo much and you deserve copious amounts of Wine!!! If we weren't a close knit family and my family life wasn't so incredibly precious to me I'd probably avoid her at all costs and just not visit. I mean, if she were a friend I think I'd just go NC. But my time with my family is something I look forward to the whole time I'm not with them and I just cherish them so much. I don't know what I've done to be pushed out like this and I sometimes wonder if I'm going crazy and it's normal sister life, but she just loves our other DSis so much and our DBs too. It's been like this with her for about the past 5 years, but when it started her moods with me were so much rarer, and it has really increased to where we are now, with me on eggshells and every word I speak in the home being either sneered at or shouted at. I just don't know what solution there could be to tackle this behaviour without upsetting the dynamic amongst the rest of the family and descending into us actually just 'arguing'. If that makes any sense.

I'm sorry this is so long. I could just do with any outside perspective because I just feel quite on my own with this.

OP posts:
spudlet7 · 01/07/2018 08:37

Agree with other posters that she's jealous. But I suspect she also senses a vulnerability in you - I.e. has found out you'll put up with it. And that attracts bullies.

I realise it's difficult for a softly spoken, non-confrontational person to suddenly be able to shout someone down. That's much easier said than done. What you can do is ignore her. And I mean in the most literal sense. Example: you're at a family meal, she starts ranting at you for whatever reason. Just stare at her blankly and don't say anything. When she finishes, just go back to eating/chatting as normal as if it never happened. Cry later if you need to but not in front of her. Bullies crave a reaction - don't give her one and this behaviour will stop being so rewarding for her. Same goes for this weird blocking behaviour. Don't go quiet, but don't push past her etc either. Just pretend you haven't even noticed.

As for favours and lovely texts etc, no more. She doesn't get favours if she acts like a twat. You don't need to say why you're refusing. Just 'no, that won't work for me right now' and don't respond to further messages on the subject. If she says 'I love you' say 'I love you too' but don't get involved in these over-emotional declarations she sends.

I hope my advice helps. People are fairly basic most of the time. Reward good behaviour and make bad behaviour incredibly unrewarding!

Good luck Thanks

LimboLuna · 01/07/2018 08:43

You don’t have to accept shit behaviour just because your related. You wouldn’t put up with it from anyone else, so why her?

I went completely no contact with a family member, it’s really logistically hard you can’t go to stuff or they can’t go to stuff (which doesn’t happen as nc person makes sure they go to everything now!). Think long and hard if you go down that route it’s not easy to manage. But life is a lot stressful! The suggestions above are brilliant.

zzzzz · 01/07/2018 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maelstrop · 01/07/2018 10:05

I agree, she’s horribly jealous of you. Stop doing her favours, immediately get out of the room if she starts to tantrum, nobody to witness her tantrum=no drama because you’ve stopped it by walking off. Don’t respond to her OTT texts, she’s only doing this to keep you sweet so she can extract favours from you.

I’m sorry, OP, but she’s a nasty bitch.

when we have 3 consecutive meet ups without you doing a toddler style rant, then I’ll consider your request. Until then the answer is no. Naughty children don’t get what they want” time to rip off the band aid.

Stunningly good advice.

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 01/07/2018 10:19

She is a skilled and mardy arsed bully. And your mum is indulging her.I agree with the tactics up thread. I bet when/if she gets to the work place she is "that" workmate who tries to rule the office with the same tactics.

loveyoutothemoon · 01/07/2018 10:29

She's a childish, pathetic jealous girl!

Only see her when you need to and START STANDING UP TO HER!

It doesn't sound like you brag about things, so she's being very unreasonable.

FizzyGreenWater · 01/07/2018 10:30

Oohhhh sis I love you soooo much I'm so glad you are my sister.

'WTF? No you don't. You treat me like shit. Whenever you're not drunk or needy, you attack me, belittle me in front of family and make it clear that you basically hate me and love nothing better than to try your best to bully me. So can you stop texting this shit when you're drunk please? I've really had enough of it.'

crying to me every time a boy upsets her

'Hi sis, maybe you should text this to XXX instead? Just thinking that last time we met you spent the whole time laying into me - if you're looking for emotional support, probably best to go to someone you don't spend the rest of the time ripping to pieces.'

randomly asking me if I love my DP more than I love her

'Pretty much, yep! To start with, he's nice to me, treats me with respect and kindness, we have a laugh together and I feel he's got my back and is basically a nice person and not a nasty jealous petty little bully. Now, let's compare... Hmm, maybe best not eh?'

Just do it.

FiaDeer · 01/07/2018 12:13

When I was a lot younger, my older DB had a strategy to make him feel better by ridiculing me in front of others. He was kind of careful not to do it in front of family but I remember a stranger intervening when we were teenagers. DB was insulting and embarrassing me on a bus and holding me up to ridicule in front of all the other passengers.
I grew up, moved away and he always tried to spoil my home visits by causing a row.
I remember it ended when I married and my DH witnessed DB putting me down. He stared at DB and clearly and slowly said ‘NOT THIS AGAIN? IT STOPS NOW’
DB never ever did. That was 35 years ago. We are ok now. Not close but very cordial.
Can you try similar when her pistons fire up? A bewildered expression. ‘This? Again?’

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/07/2018 12:55

I've read TWT and want to say how much I sympathize, Seamus. Your long description was very helpful. I have my own very close family and entirely understand why going NC is impossible. To see the rest of your family as a group means you have to see her too.

Like other posters, I think you need to treat her like a small child in a tantrum or even a badly trained dog. The rest of the family will witness this and draw their own conclusions. Don't bite back, be calm and adult - qualities you have in abundance. Though personally I'd be inclined to point out that although she's always been the baby of the family she doesn't have to stay true to type now she's 21. Oh, and forget the favours and very politely tell her why.

Didiusfalco · 01/07/2018 13:08

I’m so sorry op. You’ve had some great advice, so I won’t go over that, but I do feel like the rest of your family - particularly your parents - are really letting you down by tolerating this behaviour.

Articuno · 01/07/2018 13:29

Are you quite good looking OP? Or slimmer than your sister? Or known as the nice one? Because I agree, she sounds jealous of you.

Practice a couple of put downs. Not dramatic ones, but a raised eyebrow and ‘what do you get from putting me down so much’ can be quite effective

TwoDrifters · 01/07/2018 13:33

Is there any way you can time your visits home for when she is at uni? That way you could catch up with all your family in blissful peace.

(Probably best not to give much - if any - notice so that she can’t rearrange things to ruin your plan).

SeamusFinnigan · 01/07/2018 19:37

Thank you all so much you lovely ladies! Sorry for my silence today - have been out and busy all day but just checked this thread and I'm so touched by your sympathy and advice, and also moved by how many of you have gone through similar and understand the dynamic all too well!

Thanks so much for your ideas on how to deal with it - it's genuinely incredibly helpful because as you can see, going NC isn't really an option unless I worsen my life by seeing the whole family less (and why should I!)

Love the grey rock method and all of your ideas of really pulling the big-sister guns out and speaking to her calmly as a toddler. Your comments have given me the insight that my reactions of hurt, incomprehension, shock etc have just fed her need for drama and the best way to deal with this is to make sure she doesn't get it from me!

You are all angels - I really can't thank each of you enough for reading my (very long!) post and making me feel so understood, believed and not alone!!! Flowers Cake and Wine for each one of you!

I'll unfortunately be in frequent proximity with Dsis this week and I'll be trying my best with your ideas. I'll check in with you all to update on the situation...!!! Already feel so much lighter from all your support, honestly.

OP posts:
Singlenotsingle · 01/07/2018 20:45

Good luck OP

Fishface77 · 01/07/2018 21:18

You sound lovely op.
Dsis sounds horrible!
I wonder what would happen if she started and you hissed “shut the fuck up.” And carried on?
Would she be taken aback? Shocked? Or ramp it up?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/07/2018 21:22

Good luck, darling. I'll be watching for an update. Smile

Maelstrop · 01/07/2018 22:15

Just laugh at her, OP. She sounds very insecure, spoiled and in dire need of a reality check. When she starts, just laugh as much as you can then stop, look at her and say ‘You’re a like a spoiled child, do you know that?’ and disdainfully walk off.

Fflamingo · 01/07/2018 22:30

Does DH know she is making the conversation ‘out of his depth’, and does he care because if he doesn’t why are you stressing over that?
I’m confused that other family members are oblivious to her behaviour, or are they assuming that as it doesn’t bother you they’ll ignore it.
I’m also surprised your lovely family meet ups can involve her shouting at you. Or calling you a broke bitch!! Do others ignore this? Or perhaps it’s when you are just the two of you, I think I would be so stressed at her bullying I’d prefer just to stay away.
I definitely would have some counselling to help you deal with this so you more prepared and more able to respond calmly. Best of luck she sounds awful.

CaledonianQueen · 01/07/2018 23:07

She is definitely jealous, I would be willing to bet that she has very few friends and sees that as you are lovely, you have many friends and a devoted partner! She will have trouble finding anyone to put up with her behaviour within a relationship, be it friendship or romantic!

She is clearly proud of you and wanted to show you off to her friends, which is why she wanted you to help at her Uni. She probably feels you are the benchmark she needs to live up to. She believes you are superior - be it because of your looks, your kindness, your intelligence, your career or your position within your family. Are you by chance the eldest? Or are you very close to your other siblings and parents in a way she isn’t?

Have your parents ever used the ‘why can’t you be more like Seamus?’ in exasperation with her?

I agree with the fantastic advice you have already been given! Particularly looking up Narcicism and grey rock!

I would have the ‘stroppy madam bingo’ game with your DP, every time she kicks off, have a sign between you and your do that lets you both acknowledge her hysterics, stopping you feeling alone. If you are on your own, count the bingo ‘numbers’ mentally, when you get three in a row you reward yourself with a drink once you are away from her company. Whilst in the face of it Ignoring her behaviour completely! I agree with treating her like a tantrumming toddler. Completely ignore the behaviour. Don’t speak to her until she is prepared to apologise, just say ‘I am not prepared to converse with a tantruming toddler, when you are ready to be a grown up and apologise you know where I am.’

Make sure you use a superior/ teacher style tone, as a teacher I perfected it! It works a treat with my children!

spudlet7 · 01/07/2018 23:09

Rooting for you OP! Let us know how this week goes Thanks

Arum51 · 01/07/2018 23:42

Good luck, OP! Will be watching for updates Smile

Remember: you are Superior Big Sister. Fake it 'till you make it!

PuellaEstCornelia · 01/07/2018 23:56

Treat her like a tiresome toddler.. if she goes off on one, put your hand up and 'I'll speak to you when you can control yourself' as firmly as you can manage. You wouldn't take that shit from a work colleague or a stranger in the street; don't take it from her!

BetsyBellringer · 02/07/2018 00:20

What a tiresome bellend! Glad you have taken the above advice, take back the power!

Notmyrealname85 · 02/07/2018 00:28

Following with interest!

TaighNamGastaOrt · 02/07/2018 04:53

Ah OP, I so feel for you. I'm with all the other posters-don't let her treat you like this! you wouldnt let anyone else treat you like this, blood doesn't give her the right to abuse you.
Sadly, like other PPs, I was abused by my identical twin for so many years. I can relate to the constant putting down, belittling and general controlling of me and my 'place' within her family. Any attempt to talk to her or upset on my part was met with tantrums, her not talking to me, emotional blackmail and the inevitable flying monkeys.Yet i was always handy to babysit her kids or be a shoulder to cry on.
Eventually, i went n/c to save my son being subjected to the same spirit-crushing treatment, discovered grey rock thanks to MN and am now much happier.
Shes jealous of me (despite her having the big house and money), and stuck in an immature cycle of behaviour which seems to feed her need for drama.
Step back OP, try the suggestions above for dealing with her and go n/c if you need to. good luck, you come across as a lovely person!