Passive vs aggressive parenting

[greatbighillofhope]

We have 2 dc, one has autism and adhd. I guess if we were just parenting the one NT child these issues wouldn’t crop up so much, but autism and adhd both present a LOT of extra parenting challenges. dh and I have always had very differing styles- he goes from one extreme of being silly and clown-like to being authoritarian Victorian father, passing ‘because I said so’ type edicts. By contrast, I am generally very steady but have a huge problem in setting boundaries and am easily manipulated. 90% of the time I feel I have to acquiesce to dh’s rules just because he shouts the loudest. The only time I put my foot down is when I am scared things will escalate.
Today dc2’s teacher told me that dc2 is working on assertive communication at school. He’s doing well with the theory in lessons but struggling to apply it in real life. In practice he either bottles his feelings up or explodes (sometimes one then the other). It seemed so obvious to me that dh and I are modelling only those two options for expressing yourself and never, ever modelling assertive communication. So, I thought to myself, why don’t we have a family project where we all try to support one another to communicate assertively. I printed some child friendly activity sheets out to discuss with dh but was pretty much immediately shouted down. I was annoyed, particularly because I asked him what it was about what I had suggested that he didn’t like, but he hadn’t listened long enough to even understand what I was suggesting so couldn’t answer!!! He said that I was always starting on ‘projects’ and why couldn’t I just accept things as they were. We haven’t really spoken for the rest of the evening.
So, already I’ve failed at the first hurdle, I can’t even assert myself enough to have an conversation about assertiveness.

Also agree with AnotherEmma’s post. I hadn’t thought of the NSPCC but they might be able to offer some help.

Sodding, did not mean to suggest you are weak and vulnerable there! Just shows you how you can be gaslighted so easily by those kind of people....

this issue confronts me in my relationships with every single person I interact with including family, friends and co-workers

Ok, so when you try to express an opinion or stand up for your point of view, all these people use emotional manipulation to shut you up?

Your mother has given you an awful start to life and hopefully you are unpicking some of the damaging lessons she taught you in counselling. From what you've posted here, it seems you now see through her pretty well. But the next big lesson you could find helpful might be: when somebody repeatedly tries to trash your boundaries, walk away. Your attempts to make your mum see sense (and DH, similarly) are most likely why you feel stuck.

If your friends and co-workers are the same, you need different friends. When you're just starting out expressing your feelings, you need people round you who will listen and validate your right to those feelings. That will give you confidence to stand your ground with your DCs.

In short, keep away from the toxic people and life will be unbelievably easier. But if you're surrounded by them, that's not an easy thing to do.

@greatbighillofhope you didn’t at all, don’t worry, I really appreciate it. And if this isn’t too cheeky, I noticed you find it a lot easier to speak up for someone else than you do for yourself and I think this is key here.

You defended me (thank you again) without hesitation, yet deleted your own post to the same poster because you didn’t dare.

I think that says a lot about who you are, that your first thought is to defend others. But equally you need to know that you matter too, that you are valid, important, worthy and loveable.

And your children too.

I did mention NSPCC in my first post on this thread, I think it is relevant because the children are being abused and not “just” the OP.

On another thread of mine it was suggested that certain people are attracted to me because they can see that I can be easily manipulated. At work, I am in a senior position, many of my team members are great and I have no problem managing them, some of them though won’t take even the gentlest suggestion to improve their work and will either turn on the tears or accuse me of being unreasonable (or both).
With friendships and relationships in the past I have walked away from so many but I don’t identify that they are toxic early enough, it’s only when they really take the piss that it dawns on me. Then I remove myself from the situation and they cast me as the bad guy as I’ve done something so out of character (ie finally stood up for myself).

Greatbighillofhope, I think you may be a little hard on yourself about the way you can’t set boundaries. It sounds as though you have worked hard. The trouble is, some people are so aggressive and difficult that you can’t win. I’m known for being pretty assertive, but was ploughed down by a bully at work once - it was shocking, the assertiveness got me nowhere, I couldn’t win. It gave me a taste of what ‘power’ people can be like - they do anything, any tactic. It sounds as though you’ve got parents and partner in this mold - no wonder you feel like you can’t win. Lots of quite gentle people have a perfectly fine time where their low level admonishments get listened to! I would just really focus here on you and your kids, and what an option of separating would look like

@AnotherEmma I missed that, sorry. You’re right though.

Quick derail here but thanks @MNHQ for the rapid deletions, appreciated.

Well clearly those employees are just idiots. You have been conditioned to blame yourself every time someone else acts like a twat. That runs deep and you need to put proper work into undoing it. Hence my suggestion of a good therapist.

Have you ever done the freedom programme?

Sounds like you're doing really well, OP. I imagine it's hard work, first putting up with these people and then sticking up for yourself. The more supportive people you can offload to, the stronger you will feel. And you will get quicker at spotting these types, too, with all this practice!

When your DH is away, which you say he will be soon, pay attention to how you feel. I think you might feel physically tired from dealing with the kids by yourself, but more relaxed because of his absence.

Soddingunicorns, that is a really interesting observation. I couldn’t defend myself at all but didn’t hesitate to come out for you. I do also defend the dc repeatedly at home whenever I believe dh is crossing the line but then he and I come into conflict but don’t manage to resolve it properly.

sorry should have linked to the Freedom Programme in my original post about it

@greatbighillofhope I don’t doubt that you do defend them, I’m sure you do. I just think that the emotional impact on them and on you is too much for you all to cope with. He won’t change, at all.

It’s time to go, or to get him to go (is that possible?) if not, start making plans on how to go, when, where, how to actually do it. Paperwork, medication, especially anything to do with doctors and prescriptions and finances. Passports?

AnotherEmma, I know those people are just idiots but I can’t help feeling (even though I don’t think it) that they must be right about me in some way. It was drummed in to me from a very early age that to be ‘selfish’ was the worst possible way to be. I do need to go back to therapy.
I would be too scared and definitely feel like fraud in a freedom programme, from the outside my life appears virtually perfect. Feeling so shit about myself has turned me into a workaholic which has ironically turned out fairly well for me in my career if not so great in the rest of my life.
Charlotte and others thank you all for your support, it is very helpful.

I would be too scared and definitely feel like fraud in a freedom programme

You’re not a fraud, I promise you.

have a look at this, and see if any of them apply to your DH

And then compare it to what a partner/spouse should be

You could also read the abuser profiles and see if any of them sound like your DH. Although you’ve already read the book!!

At least being successful in your career means you have the financial independence to manage fine on your own. Some abused women are completely financially dependent.

I can relate to a lot of bits of your posts OP

I’m not saying I have completely got a whole new personality but I cannot explain to you how freeing myself from a man like this changed me very deeply. It has taken me some time but I am no longer afraid to confront people/situations because I have found my own way of doing so that is kind and considerate and there is less fear of their reaction. I think ultimately not living with a man like this was the catalyst as it almost allows you to have a reset, and over the years I have naturally adapted my confrontational style to be what suits me - I can get a point across without thinking it’s going to be a battle. Your mother and now husband have kept you in this environment for a very long time - the fear is being fed daily. By taking the fear away I was able to grow. I do have issues setting boundaries with my possible ADD DD1 because it is far out of my comfort zone and I do struggle.

I just read your posts like you are a woman whose head is always only just above the water. Your husband is keeping you there because he likes it that way.

The problem we have is in communicating healthily. His aggressive method is as dysfunctional as my passive method, we both have totally fucked up ways of communicating and when you combine these ways it becomes abusive. If either of us were assertive instead this wouldn’t happen. If I could be assertive...
Jeez, I am trying to make this all my responsibility because if it is all my responsibility then I can do something to affect the outcome. All I have to do is try harder. I don’t know, I’m just tired. I love him, he loves me, we both love our children but it’s not working out right.

“I am trying to make this all my responsibility because if it is all my responsibility then I can do something to affect the outcome. All I have to do is try harder.”

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. You could try harder and harder and harder and be absolutely perfect and the best most assertive communicator and it would get WORSE not better. Because he punishes you when you try to communicate assertively.

I can’t believe you think that you’re equally at fault for being passive when the REASON you are passive is that he is horrendously aggressive. Nothing you say or don’t say is to blame for, or as bad as, his abuse.

Tbh I think you’ve been going round in circles for a long time because of fear and denial. You’re afraid of leaving him and you don’t want to accept that he is abusive and won’t get better.

This is why you need RL support, you need some hand holding to help you overcome the fear and denial.

This is true. Why am I afraid to express myself in one of the most important relationships in my life? It’s not just my feelings that I have to hide, he asked me the other day if I thought his hair was thinning on top, I had to lie and say no because I knew if I told him the truth (even if it was diplomatically) he would be angry with me.

90% of the time I feel I have to acquiesce to dh’s rules just because he shouts the loudest.

I printed some child friendly activity sheets out to discuss with dh but was pretty much immediately shouted down.

I am scared to set boundaries with him because he always screams, shouts and swears at me when I do and will also get physical.

it is clear to the dc that he has very little respect for my opinion. So of course, they don’t respect my opinion either. I try not to express one as much as possible because it’s better to pretend you don’t mind than to be disregarded.

even when I try to be extremely diplomatic he gets really annoyed by it.

Why do you think you struggle to be assertive with him, OP? Reading all that, is it not obvious?

He doesn’t need to lose his temper very often. The threat and fear of it is enough to keep you in line.

As soon as I try to step up in a logical and balanced way, and I get a negative response, my inner emotional reaction (rarely expressed) is overwhelming, telling me to stop it and get out of this situation immediately. It’s so hard to over-ride that programming.

That’s your instinct for self-preservation. You don’t need to override it. You need to listen to it. Your instinct is telling you to get out of the situation. Listen!

You can’t be assertive with an abusive man. It’s not safe.

I can’t believe you think that you’re equally at fault for being passive when the REASON you are passive is that he is horrendously aggressive. Nothing you say or don’t say is to blame for, or as bad as, his abuse

Fully agree with this.

You can’t be assertive with an abusive man. It’s not safe

And this.