Is refusing to get married a control thing

[Kannet]

So this is not about me but a close family member. She had been with her Dp for fifteen years,two kids mortgage and so on. He knows that she is desperate to be married, she wants the same name as her kids (no idea why they don't have her name anyway). She also wants the status of wife, she feels people look down on her as she is "just girlfriend".

She has talked about it with her Dp and is even happy to just go off on their own and not have a "wedding". He just says right out no. No reason just "don't want to".

I honestly think he likes having this control over her. He holds all the cards so to speak.

They also have separate money and she works very part time so financially she is vulnerable. I just don't know what advice to give her anymore

Nobody has to get married! And if he doesn't want to, then he doesn't want to.

If it means that much to her, then she should leave him and find someone else to marry.

However, if she wants to say, because she really loves him (and they have DC together, of course) then she needs to get her legal status sorted out so that she isn't vulnerable.

Depends on how hes doing it.

Yes hes allowed not to want to get married, but hes not allowed to refuse point blank to even discuss it, and why he doesnt want to.

My ex was a bit like this. We were together 6 years, he would constantly 'joke' about how he would never marry me. If we were talking about weddings, ie a friends wedding etc so not ours, he would tell me that at least i would never have to worry about that, etc etc.

He knew i wanted to get married, so there ws definitely a level of cruel-ness to his jokes.

He was devastated when i left, couldnt figure out why...

If the surname is an issue she could just change hers? I have a friend that was going to do that, she wanted the same surname as her dc but her dp didnt want to get married. So she legally just changed her surname to his.

My brother has been with his DP for 15 years now and has 2 children, mortgage etc. They aren't married and don't have any intention of it, he just doesn't see it as something he needs or wants to do and whilst it's not what I would choose, you've got to respect the decision. He's allowed to not want to be married.

That being said, they are both on equal footing financial wise, both own their respective businesses and working full time etc. There isn't anything in particular that the other needs to legally protect themselves for.

Of course he doesn't want to. At the moment if the relationship goes sour he gets to keep all his assets and has no obligation to provide for the woman who sacrificed her long-term earning potential for the sake of his kids, leaving her in abject poverty for the rest of her life. If they marry and later he wants to look elsewhere he would have to share the assets he built up while she was sacrificing herself. What's in it for him?

He sounds like a git tbh.

If she wants to get married and he doesn't, it's going to be a constant strain on their relationship. I don't think he's being controlling; he just doesn't want to get married. At least not to her. If she can accept that, or rather be satisfied that marriage between them isn't going to happen, fine. But that seems unlikely.

In my experience most men who won’t get married are protecting their assets and have a partner who earns less and often isn’t listed on the mortgage etc. There are men and women who don’t get married for other reason but it does usually leave the woman in a more financially vulenerable position.

In the case you describe the man has what he wants without getting married and it seems he can’t even be bothered to humour her with the whole ‘we don’t need a piece of paper to prove our love’ nonsense.

I have an ex friend who's partner and situation is just like this.
I'm sure it's a control thing.
Over time me and her other long term friends were pushed away and replaced with his friends too. Again for control.
Sadly she can't see it.

My advice to her would be to get back to full time work asap, no point compromising her career any more than she already has. As she can't rely on her boyfriend and legally will have no resource to his assets should they split, she needs to safeguard her own position.
Do they jointly own the house? That needs to be sorted, also wills.
And I d be squirelling away money from any available source, so that she has got some back-up should she want/ need to leave. I had a friend who got extra cash back every time she went shopping, and saved that.
I suspect that the type of guy who refuses to marry the mother of his children is one who will happily leave her stranded and unsupported when he finds someone more fun.

It is all about protecting assets when there are differences on income and assets each partner holds.

Personally, I think that a man who refuses to protect his wife with a contract of marriage, despite the woman being the main career of his children and holding a mortgage together is a man that puts himself always first and that is better left sooner rather than later. They are normally selfish arses who hold a woman under their thumb, because she won’t have a claim to what they have built TOGETHER, and with that I am not talking about property but lifestyle and living standards.

As far as I'm aware they own the house together, but would not be surprised if they didn't. He's very financially savvy. I just feel so sad for her.

Surely if you have a dp who won’t get married and you want the same name as your kids you do one of two things:

1. give the kids your surname
2. change your name by deed poll.

Personally i’d have done the former. No marriage, kids have my name. But it sounds like she wants his name, so deed poll it.

I didn’t want to get married. It’s made no difference to my life, and in fact has weakened my financial status considerably. But at the time i was pregnant and still listening to my bloody mother- who was worried about her friends all knowing i was an unmarried mother. Plus she also came out with the bollocks about being financially more secure etc- that’s only true if you are the lower earner, no assets, sahp etc.

Owning a house together, it is not such a level of protection as in most cases where different incomes are present, the person who has been taking the lion’s share of the care of the children won’t be able to buy the other out or even take the mortgage on their own.

Can you ask her or encourage her to look at assets and what she would do if he left.

In my limited experience on this matter men who are adamant they won't do something, break up from the person they won't budge for then immediately find and marry someone soon after.
Because someone else has that something they are willing to budge for.

In the situation you describe yes.

Not in all situations (where the power balance is equal and either would be equally able to leave the relationship).

In this case though yes.

If she is "desperate to be married" has this come on suddenly, or has she felt like this since the relationship got serious presumably 12, 13 or so years ago? Has she been open about how important it is to her for a long time or just recently?

Him just not wanting to would be totally valid if she wasn't a Sahm to his children imo. Has he been open about not wanting to marry throughout the 15 year relationship or has he strung her along implying that they will marry eventually?

The worst are those arrangements where the man proposes then the woman pines away like some kind of Victorian maiden, except with a clutch of his kids, waiting for him to set a date and behaving as if she's totally powerless - which is what she becomes and he exploits, dangling a hazy idea of marriage one day like a carrot on a stick to retain the upper hand and removing it if she pushes to solidify the plans.

15 years and 2 kids is a long way in to a relationship which should never have got past dating if the two people involved have totally incompatible values and priorities about something as clear cut as whether or not to marry.

She has always been clear that that is what she wants. He used to make vague noises about it now it's an absolute no.

Yup: if it is his name on the House deeds she needs to create her own financial security and look out for herself.

She is working part time, reducing her own pension prospects, looking after their kids so that he can earn, build his savings and pension, while she gets nothing.

This kind of set up only works where each partner earns the same, or at least neither jeopardises their earning power and financial independence, and take equal responsibility for childcare.

People are complete mugs.

No wonder she feels like an outsider: he is using her as childcare while he earns money for himself.
The name isn’t the issue, the imbalance of power and money is.

“He used to make vague noises about it now it's an absolute no.”

The vague noises were before the kids were born, yes?

Whether he's being MH cruel/controlling all depends on what actually happened in the relationship - for all you know he might have been completely open about never marrying, and putts no major assets into joint names was seen at the time by both of them as adequate.

I wouid advise your friend to return to fulltime work, so she can buy out his share of the house if necessary and also so her pension does not take more of a hit than it has already done,

It can be a controlling thing.

Sometimes it simply that they don't want to get married.

No one thinks it's a control issue when women don't want to marry.

I wouldn't marry again.

I think she needs to get back to FT work and start building financial independence.

The vague noises where around the time the kids where born, I'm pretty sure that's why they have the name they do.

I honestly think he is just selfish

x-ed with op's last.

I too wonder what there 'vague' noises were. Because it does rather sound to me as if he has never said he wants to get married and your friend has seized on anything that was less than a flat 'no' and taken it as encouragement. It's not an uncommon scenario, but the failure to believe someone when they say who they are/what they want, rarely ends well.

I think she needs to get back to FT work and start building financial independence.

This. Pronto.

he is using her as childcare while he earns money for himself.

That is the most succinct summary of the "unmarried stay-at-home mum" situation that I have ever read.

She has much much bigger problems than her flipping surname, quite honestly. It's the very last thing she should be wasting time worrying about.