Ex refusing to stick to set contact times

[TattyMcTatt]

EX and I have 3 DC and have been separated for 4 years. We do not get on. We used to have a pretty much 50/50 shared care arrangement until he moved 5 hours drive away to be with new GF and their baby. He now sees the DC once a fortnight Saturday morning to Sunday evening.

He gives a 3 hour window on a Saturday morning and brings them home anytime between 5 and 8 on the Sunday evening, often not fed. He is sporadic with his phone contact and often won't answer leaving DC in tears. Sometimes he sees them in holidays, sometimes not.

The DC have been very upset with the lack of structure and it's hard for me and my partner too.

I asked for set times and he said I'd need to propose it through a solicitor which I did. He refused to respond. I threatened to withhold contact until he did (solicitors advice). He has now responded saying he cannot commit to times as he lives so far away and basically making excuses as to why he can't see his DC more.

I don't know what to do. I think it's just another control thing for him. He doesn't want to agree as it's me who's asking. He wants the flexibility at everyone else expense.

He sounds horrific! It’s not fair on your DC the way he is behaving, can you explain the impact this is having on them, once a fortnight isn’t much. He chose to move that far away, not you.

How old are your children? Does he driver 10 hours round trip both days.

8pm on a Sunday is so late unless they are teens and even then would of expected them to have tea.

Thanks, they are 7, 10 and 12. I think it'll likely end up in court, solicitor is advising I stop contact.

I appreciate that your solicitor has more details, but stopping contact is a pretty high risk strategy. Judges take a pretty dim view of it unless there are serious child protection concerns.

I think it will be best to go to court. I'm not sure I agree about stopping contact in the meantime though.

Your eldest is old enough to be asked their thoughts. Of course a court will impose stricter times. It sounds miserable for your DC to spend 10 hours EOW travelling though.

I can't take it to court, he has to apparently. I really don't want to stop contact if there's another option.

Of course you can take it to court! Did your solicitor say you could not?

You may not like the outcome if you do (for instance, having to share the driving) but you can apply for a child arrangements order if you wish.

There is little you can do if he ignores it and carries on regardless though. And punctuality off a 5 hour drive is not going to be great.

It sounds really tough, but I'm not sure you can do much to improve things. And I don't think your solicitor is helping much. (I am one).

So did your solicitor actually say you should stop contact to force him into taking it to court? I would say that is a risky strategy. Have you not been advised you would have to consider mediation first whoever makes the application?

5 hours is a hell of a journey for him and dc to do, especially if he works and has a new baby.

I am not justifying but rationalizing as it must be a nightmare for everyone.
Any chance of him moving back closer? Do dc do 10 hours as I think there is a safety issue and a risk you will be ask to drive some of the way.

What would be your ideal proposal?

You can take it to.court yourself but even then, enforcing the court.order - he may just carry on as he is doing anyway

Is he driving five hours to pick the DC up then five hours to take them to his house, then five hours to take them home and another five hours to return to his home. If he is he has driven fifteen hours by the time he drops them home on Sunday night then still has another five hour trip to drive back to his home. Even if you are driving some of the way to meet him it’s very unfair on your DC. It’s a long drive even as a passenger. I would be very concerned a) they are being driven by your ex who must be very tired and could fall asleep at the wheel and b) your DC must feel very tired by the time they get home and at school the next day.

Could you change the contact to one or two weeks in school holidays and he phones them every week at a set time. There would be no way I would want my children taking a long road trip EOW. This cannot be to your DC benefit OP.

That amount of driving EOW really doesn’t sound fair on your kids. If he gets stuck in traffic then they could be in the car for the entire weekend! Why did he have to move so far away? That’s very selfish. Couldn’t they have found somewhere closer to live. He has effectively ended his rights to regular weekend contact by moving so far away. The courts ordered a friend to drive a couple of hours and meet him at a motorway service station. However, it did go back to court. She was awarded full custody and I think visitation was moved to holiday times only. Worth getting a second opinion unless you trust your solicitor is correct and also worth posting on the legal section of mumsnet

Thanks all,

Yes the drive terrifies me. The children often come home very ill and vomiting which means they then have to have time off school. They are exhausted but they love their father and want to see him. It's desperately sad.

His GF wouldn't move closer so he made the choice to move there. The DC have been in counselling, they took it very hard and still really struggle, especially with the lack of structure.

I have requested set days/times for him to call the kids every week as they want to talk to him regularly. He says he hasn't phoned in a month because relations with me are strained. I have never refused to allow the DC to speak to him, I never would. They want and need to.

He says he can't commit to times because of traffic. While I completely understand the logistics, I also believe he uses this as an excuse, particularly for his morning arrival time.

I know he works half days every other Friday so could collect them then but he has refused to admit this to the solicitor. I'm assuming he spends this time with his new family.

He says he only has a months holiday a year which is first come first served so if I try to pin him down regarding school holidays he just won't be a able to have them at all during hols ......

Ideally would like him to arrive at 5 on a Friday and bring them home at 5 on a Sunday so they at least get a full day with him. Failing that then it should be holidays. He won't agree to either of those though.

Of you are on a low or modest income you can go to your court and make an application to be heard in court, it is a one off fee per child that is roughly around £300, once paid you will get a court date within 6 weeks and as many court dates it takes to agree contact.
It is a lot money as you have 3 DC I know but if you do decide to do this, it shows the judge you are willing to do what is best for Childrens sake.
In all fairness you are trying to compromise with EX but he is the one been difficult here not you.
I got custody of my DB & DS after death of mum (4&2) their dad lived in Guildford I'm based northeast I done court application as he thought it was his way or no way and I wasn't having that as the children needed stability and routine, He had to attend court were I lived but said couldn't cause of financial reasons so he was on phone in court room instead.
Judge ordered certain days and times for phone contact and certain days for actual contact, judge criticised him for been so difficult and thinking of only himself and not children, Exactly what your EX doing.
Good luck

The DC might desperately want to see him but this set up isn't beneficial to them at all. You can't protect them from his attitude. It would be best if this went to court. He will be given set times to see the DC and won't be able to get away with picking and choosing around holidays and when he speaks to them. If he chooses not to comply he won't see the DC but that's his choice.

If this does end up going to court I strongly suggest to make sure the final court order is as detailed as possible to avoid future problems. By that I mean instead of him having 2 weeks over the summer holidays each year you specify when e.g. the first two weeks, or the first and third week etc. If it's left open to interpretation or requires additional negotiation each year you will be in the same situation as you are now.

It seems to me that the obvious answer to reduce your worries about all the driving he is doing would be for you to take a share. Can you not find a services an hour in his direction, so you can shave a couple of hours off his drives? Or a bit further, and collect from there?

Your kids can text you when they are setting out so You'll have a fair idea of time.

He's a dick for moving so far away, but this isn't about him, It's about them.

I'm 7 months pregnant and on a low income so really don't want to be doing the drive. My partner potentially could but he works long hours and really don't think he'd be inclined to spend 4 hours in the car eow because the children's father cannot manage his own mess.

Your proposal sounds sensible.I think you can't shelter your children from the realities of him but thankfully they are old enough to know.It is painful as no one wants their children to suffer.

Be aware they will feel nervous with your new baby arriving, they may feel mum and dad are now less interested so they will need lots of reassurance.

Perhaps put this on the back burner until your baby arrives and then revisit when you have a routine with the new baby.

Is public transport an option at some stage when they are older?

He’s a selfish prick and it’s unacceptable that men can get away with this. Children should be able to sue them for neglect when they get to 18.

Sorry OP, not much help to you I know, but they’re lucky to have such a good mum. I’d honestly have lost it with him by now and asked him why the hell his own kids are such a low priority for him, and does he realise that the kids will figure this out for themselves one day, and there’s a chance they’ll want nothing more to do with him.

This is all about control.

Your role in this is PURELY to accomodate and facilitate contact.

You have reasonably asked for him to stick to times, he refuses
Your solicitor has told you to stop contact - this is what you need to do.

Your kids are often sick as a result of the journey, are not fed for over 5 hours and it's having a negative impact on their health, mentally and physically.

So do what your solicitor suggests. Stop contact.

As far as the phone calls go, he doesn't pick up the calls? My Ex used to do that too. All you can do is be there for your kids, and not push them contacting their dad too much, eventually, they will be more resilient and probably not offer to call him. My DS CBA with his dad, won't ask to call him, rarely wants to call him back, and wouldn't be bothered about seeing him after the last time he was over.

His relationship with them is HIS responsibility. YOu have done all you can to facilitate and make things as smooth as possible and he is doing all he can to frustrate and hurt you, using your DC as collateral damage.

I SAY AGAIN: So do what your solicitor suggests. Stop contact.

If you are going to stop contact please make sure you have fully explained the reasons in a solicitor's letter and give him the opportunity to work with you, otherwise you are handing him ammunition on a plate.

Make sure you are getting the right advice from a good solicitor. I met with two who I had no confidence in before finding a really good one. Bear in mind your solicitor might be keen for it do progress to court for the wrong reasons. It's possible. But I do think a court order would help you here.

I was going to draft a letter to ex this evening. Solicitor says he'll go over it and send it to him.

My reservations in stopping contact are DC will be upset, but also don't want to be 'that woman' who refuses non resident parent access to their DC....

Yes it is a control thing with him and always has been.

I'm worried about the cost of taking him to court. I've already paid £400 for the solicitors involvement, something ex bloody requested! He just playing me and refusing to compromise at all. I may qualify for reduced fee but not sure...

I had a similar situation with a non resident dad who basically thought parenthood was something that could only be done when it suited him,and I was unreasonable if I criticised that. I understand you not wanting to be 'that mum' who stops contact, but you aren't considering doing this to be spiteful or controlling, you are trying to give your children (HIS children!)the stability they need to grow up into healthy well balanced adults.

Him being unreliable, refusing even to pick up the phone FGS,not planning his life around contact with them as he should, is not him doing his best for your children. Can you look at it as a suspension of an arrangement which is not working for your children, and that contact is desired and welcomed by you, but only in a way that benefits your children no matter how much it inconveniences him?

I have to say though that his moving so far away and subsequent behaviour points to him checking out on your children in favour of a clean start with new family. How is his girlfriend's relationship with the children? Do they have a house big enough to accommodate an extra 3 on a regular basis?

I ended up accepting that it was up to my ex to be responsible for how much contact took place and once I stopped pushing it it dwindled to nothing for years. Apparently for him driving 1/2 an hour each way was "too much driving". You can't make someone be interested in their children,unfortunately for those poor kids.

He is “that Dad” who fucked off, had more dc, and puts himself and everything above his first children, even their health/comfort/nutrition/education

Be “that parent” who looks out for them and makes sure they’re respected and safe.

Have you suggested mediation?