Shouty husband - what to do?

[SparklesXYZ]

My DH and I are not speaking, again, after he started shouting at me once again. Here are a couple of examples of recent incidents:

a) DH was meant to get to the kids ready for bed, but he was in the shower, so I got things going. (DH rarely gets our DC ready for bed. He says he'll do it once a week, but often doesn't.) When I told him I'd got things going, I thought he'd just say thank you, as I was simply trying to help. He reacted badly by shouting at me, telling me that everything was run according to my agenda and that he didn't know when bedtime was! (Our DC are 6 and 7. Bedtime has been the same for over a year...) He accused me of winding him up (?!) and after shouting at me for a few minutes, he stormed out of the house.

b) At the weekend, I got the DC up, washed, breakfasted and ready for their club that morning, while my DH was still in bed. The sun was already strong and after having applied suncream on both my DC, I went and got the adult sun cream for my DH to put on. I thought this was a thoughtful and kind gesture, but he just started having a go at me for making them late by getting him to put sun cream on (DH burns easily). Considering DH got up about 45 mins after us, I found it unbelievable.

Incidents of this nature are occurring more and more. I think I'm just being nice/kind/thoughtful and he just shouts at me. I don't understand how you can shout at someone who is fundamentally just trying to be nice. I don't understand why he would never shout at anyone else, but shouts at the person who loves him and does so much for him. I don't want to put up with being shouted at for the rest of my life.

Any thoughts on what the way forward is? Do you know any other couples where the husband shouts at the wife a lot?

@SparklesXYZ I have a pdf copy of the Lundy Bancroft book I can send you. Just pm me x

hellsbells Just googles cycle of abuse. Totally makes sense. DH's explosion behaviour has always been there. Cycle becoming shorter...

explosive, I mean

sparkles I can see the cycle of abuse clear as anything now I have left. He still tries. He is nice, then overly nice and trying to be all over familiar again, if he doesn't get the response he expects, he blows up (usually over text now). It brews under the surface.

By the way my ex wasn't horrible all the time, we laughed, have the same sense of humour, had nice times in between him calling me a cunt and wishing I would drop dead from cancer.

The vitriol that used to come from his mouth when he was angry. When I told him about it, he said "so one word ended our relationship?" (when i brought up the cunt explosion one day). He had no idea the impact of his words.

One of the "OMG" moments for me was a friend sending me this: www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/she-comes-long-way-baby/201606/frog-is-dropped-boiling-water

I will also say I received almost the same advice as you, at first I didn't believe that he couldn't not change. I had high hopes, I wanted our family to stay together. I didn't have kids with him to split. I had them to raise a family together. We are still raising that family, just apart, and I am 100% happier.

Sorry this link: steptohealth.com/boiled-frog-syndrome/

Sometimes I've sent them to another room, telling them that Daddy is about to shout at me

Just read that back. What are you both teaching your children?

He's not going to change because he doesn't need to.

So what next?

Leave the chair untucked OP

All these little things that you just do for him. Stop.

If he doesn't want to change or accept that he even needs to then I personally think your only option is to leave. I could not live with someone like that or allow my children to see me being treated in that way

I know you've been given some really good advice from the ladies on here, I really hope you find the strength to do what's needed

Just tell him you're not listening, you're not there to be shouted at and simply walk away. Don't let him get his say! In fact I wouldn't tell him 'I'm not listening' I'd simply walk out of the house and he'd get the idea.

Cycle becoming shorter.
Yep - that's what happens.
So what now for you OP?
I feel for your DC.

I know he's verbally abusive, but how will I get DH to see that he is and to get him to change?

He already knows he's verbally abusive. You know he considers it's abusive because he doesn't do it to anybody else.

How can you get him to change? You can't, and you really need to accept this.
This is destined to both escalate and ultimately fail. What you can do is start taking steps to become independent of him both emotionally and financially.

DH has just properly apologised for his behaviour of late. I told him that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life not knowing when he might yell at me again. He didn't have anything much to say. No promises of change or anything (I didn't ask him to), just "What, you want me to promise that I won't ever lose my temper again?" I think he thought he could apologise, I'd be all nice to him again and that'll be that.

What a twat

The clock’s ticking down to the next explosion, whenever that may be

He has merely paid lip service to his shouting at you and like many abusers refuses also to take any real responsibility for his actions.
I would agree that it will escalate and it is only a matter of time before he starts shouting at you again.

You cannot change him and he is not for changing. You can only change how you react to him.

Staying with him is no option here going forward. You have a choice re this man, your children do not.

What made you not ask him to make changes? Surely that’s the condition for you staying with him?
It’s really unlikely he would change anyway but without any self awareness and desire to change, what have you actually got from this conversation?

Exactly what Attila said.
Take heed, he won’t change. I lived with one like this for 11 years. When he started on DD that’s when I left. Best decision I’ve ever made and that was 7 years ago. Still single, and loving my life now.

That wasn't an apology.

As Daykay said, what is stopping you from insisting this stops? Are you afraid of further abuse if you do?

I'd start with getting him out of your bed and I wouldn't have sex with him either.

He's never going to stop though op, because he already knows you won't leave. He literally has zero reason to stop.

As long as you're with him he's going to shout at you.

If you're ok with that, crack on, if you aren't, then it's a different conversation.

Please understand that by staying with him, you're condemning the children to a childhood of eggshell walking. You are spitting in their faces by letting this carry on.

Sorry, it's harsh but it's the truth.

If I were you I might start putting the kids first

"rosie No physical abuse."
No door slamming? Punching walls? Throwing or breaking items?

The effect on the DC is more than being taught poor relationship goals. It's anxiety, fear, shame, blaming themselves, fear that daddy will hurt mummy, will hurt them...

"these explosions are awful when they happen, but he can also be wonderful to me, too." 3 concepts you need to look up:

Cycle of abuse
Sunk cost fallacy
Training of abuse victims

You shouting back, understandable but not a solution and yet more distress for your DC.

Abusers VERY rarely change/stop, it's far more common that even if you leave he will abuse his next partner...and the next...and the kids as they get older.

Fuck me! The amount of victim blaming on this thread is SHOCKING!

There was an episode of Judging Amy where each of 3 DC had a period of psychosomatic hearing loss around a similar age. Seemed a normal family as Drs and child psychs and sw tried to figure out what was wrong. Then the eldest child disclosed to the sw - by playing a recording of the parents SCREAMING at each other and if I recall correctly the eldest DC, in the most vile way! I forget the resolution in the episode but certainly it was made clear to the parents that they were abusing their kids with this behaviour. I was shocked to learn this episode was one based on a real life incident.

ABUSE is NEVER the victims fault and those pps that have victim blamed should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

He sounds fucking useless as well as verbally abusive and I strongly suspect he is abusive in other ways too but you're in the eye of the storm and can't see it yet.

Leaving is I believe necessary, my concern is his having unsupervised access to the DC and I think ahead of leaving you should gather evidence to support a case for supervised contact.

Here's the thing - abuse, addiction, jealousy and insecurity, fear of commitment, fecklessness... You can't change another person. THEY can change themselves (with real determination and a lot of help in terms of therapy), but you cannot change anyone but yourself.

Wow! Even in his 'apology' he is telling you, that you deserve this treatment that as far as he's concerned your purpose for him is as an emotional punch bag. I'm very concerned this may soon become physical, especially with the cycle getting shorter.

Honestly in your position I'd be getting ducks in a row inc job hunting. Enough is enough.

@zap

I watched a guy follow his partner all around a department store, on her heel as she zigged zagged all around the clothing racks trying to get away from this prick. He was right behind her in her ear the whole time. Scary and depressing they were only in their mid to late 20s but he was so relentless I could just tell he’d be the type to physically abuse

Shout back! Just the once, to see how he reacts.

If you care about your kids you need to sort this. It shouldn’t be your responsibility but since you’re married to a bully unfortunately it is. Your choice. Subject your kids to him and live with the guilt or get out.

Stop making excuses.

Morning, folks. Thank you to everyone who has offered the OP advice and support. We have had a few reports concerned that some of the posts felt a bit victim-blaming. We're sure that was never anyone's intention but just wanted to mention it as something to think carefully about.

OP we hope you manage to sort the situation out somehow. In case it's of help here's a page we have put together on the subject.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts, experiences and advice. I've started reading 'Why does he do that?', which is making sense of his behaviour and I'm able to see it's not all my fault, or anyone/anything else's fault, for the first time. I'll show DH parts of the book and see how he reacts.

I want to at least give DH the chance to change before calling it quits.

Tbh I wouldn’t show him the book, it won’t help and he won’t change

Do NOT show him the book!

That book in the wrong hands is an abusers handbook. Don't risk educating him how to abuse you more effectively. If you've read enough you will already see that being abusive is a conscious decision. The book is for you. Not him.