Shouty husband - what to do?

[SparklesXYZ]

My DH and I are not speaking, again, after he started shouting at me once again. Here are a couple of examples of recent incidents:

a) DH was meant to get to the kids ready for bed, but he was in the shower, so I got things going. (DH rarely gets our DC ready for bed. He says he'll do it once a week, but often doesn't.) When I told him I'd got things going, I thought he'd just say thank you, as I was simply trying to help. He reacted badly by shouting at me, telling me that everything was run according to my agenda and that he didn't know when bedtime was! (Our DC are 6 and 7. Bedtime has been the same for over a year...) He accused me of winding him up (?!) and after shouting at me for a few minutes, he stormed out of the house.

b) At the weekend, I got the DC up, washed, breakfasted and ready for their club that morning, while my DH was still in bed. The sun was already strong and after having applied suncream on both my DC, I went and got the adult sun cream for my DH to put on. I thought this was a thoughtful and kind gesture, but he just started having a go at me for making them late by getting him to put sun cream on (DH burns easily). Considering DH got up about 45 mins after us, I found it unbelievable.

Incidents of this nature are occurring more and more. I think I'm just being nice/kind/thoughtful and he just shouts at me. I don't understand how you can shout at someone who is fundamentally just trying to be nice. I don't understand why he would never shout at anyone else, but shouts at the person who loves him and does so much for him. I don't want to put up with being shouted at for the rest of my life.

Any thoughts on what the way forward is? Do you know any other couples where the husband shouts at the wife a lot?

[SparklesXYZ]

no squirrels Of course I'm aware of the effect the shouting is having on my DC. I hate to think they'll grow up thinking that it's ok for a man to shout at a woman. People say leave, but it's really not that simple or easy.
Re bedtime, he was meant to get our DC showered. He didn't, so I did it, but didn't say anything. He was meant to brush their teeth etc, but was then in the shower himself, so I got started with the teeth brushing etc.

[Cornishclio]

It is not ok. Tell him it is rude, disrespectful and you wont listen to it any more. I would walk away and if he persists in doing it then you need to talk about separating. It is an awful example to set your DC. Even if he does not shout at them he will do eventually and them hearing him shout at you without you stopping him leaves them to believe it is ok and they may even start doing it themselves.

I think stepping back from doing nice things for him is also a good idea as he does not appreciate it. If it is his turn to put the kids to bed then leave him to it. I would just say it is his turn to do it and go out or settle down with a book or watch TV or get on with something else. Same with suncream. Let him burn. He also needs to deal with the consequences of not doing things you have agreed he will do. Why does he only do one night a week bedtime for the kids? Do you both work?

[WhyBeUnkind]

I don't get why posters are defending him either. Even if you were being 'motherly' towards him or even if you were micromanaging or fussing him or whatever surely anyone half decent would just explain to you that they didn't like it and ask you to stop. I would NEVER shout at someone unless they had deliberately done something aggressive or nasty to me.

Personally I would seriously think about leaving him - not just for yourself but for you kids. He may not shout at them now but what about when they are older?
Are you really prepared to walk on eggshells for the rest of your life. It's just not worth it.
He has the type of personality that thinks it's ok to shout at someone who is meant to be the love of their life. I'd rather be single.

[SparklesXYZ]

tutru No, not alcohol related.

[SparklesXYZ]

rosie No physical abuse.

[SparklesXYZ]

DH never used to do bedtime at all. He then said he'd do it once a week a little while ago when I said it's not really fair that he always leaves it to me, but he didn't keep his promise. Now, if the DC don't remind him that it's his turn, he probably wouldn't do it. DH works full time and I'm a SAHM.

[SparklesXYZ]

I have written to DH to say that if he doesn't stop shouting at me, then I don't know what the future holds for us. He thinks just staying out of the way, i.e. avoiding being in the same room as me for the time being, is the solution.

[Skittlesandbeer]

Take him to counselling to show him you’re serious. It obviously feels normal and right to him, so you’ll need to take a firm stand.

Don’t ask him to go, just find a counsellor, make the appointment and give him the time and address. Tell him whether he comes or not, you won’t be living with a shouter. If he comes it’s a chance to fix the problem, if he doesn’t he’ll have to live somewhere else.

Tell him this when you’re both in a neutral mood, obviously not when he’s shouting.

Whatever (perhaps valid?) feelings he’s having that are leading him to shout, it doesn’t mean he’s ’allowed’ to communicate them this way. Anyone above toddler age can be expected to notice their triggers and switch to a better, adult set of behaviours.

[NoSquirrels]

Of course I'm aware of the effect the shouting is having on my DC. I hate to think they'll grow up thinking that it's ok for a man to shout at a woman. People say leave, but it's really not that simple or easy.

But you need to have a line in the sand, right?

What's yours?

My DH has a tendency to shout. He is quick-tempered by nature. He works hard on controlling and overcoming this. He has been to counselling, he meditates every day, he notices his triggers and tries to come up with strategies. He apologises. He explains and we think of ways to be better.

I'm sure I have equally bad habits in other ways. I try to mitigate them.

I could not live with my DH if he thought it was OK to leave everything to me and shout when anything didn't go his way/as expected/involved effort.

So no, of course it is not "simple or easy" to leave. But you have to be prepared to act if your line is crossed. What is your line? For me, the effect on my DC would be right up there as a motivation if I did not see evidence of a willingness to change.

[MikeUniformMike]

It's verbal abuse. Line your ducks in a row. Agree with Skittlesandbeer.

[MistressDeeCee]

Sorry, he'd have to fuck off. Life truly is too short and if you stay with this man, when you're old and grey and he's even more shouty it will dawn on you. & you'll likely feel it's too late to move on.

I don't know how some posters have the gall to make excuses for such ignorance. I bet he doesn't shout at mates does he? As he respects them. Ditto work colleagues, as he knows he'd lose his job. He can control the shouting if he wants to. But with you, he doesn't.

What is emotional or physically appealing about a loud shouty man, to you?.

I was with a shouty ex for 3 years. It was occasional at first then in final year began to be more regular. Someone upset him at work or he was irritable in general, the shouting would start. I couldn't put up with the wall of noise so binned him.

I can't begin to tell you how peaceful and blissful my life and home became. Lovely to be with OH for past 5 years who never shouts.

As you're staying you'll have to hope your DH agrees he has a problem and goes for counselling (not jointly with you tho - you'd be best going separately).

I hope it works out or you and your DCs will end up nervous wrecks. Not to mention your DCs will grow up and bail out as soon as they can. They won't want to put up with all that

Good luck

[sprouts2018]

I think it's important to call this what it is, verbal abuse.

Abusers abuse in all ways. They are usually other types of abuse going on as well, e.g. financial or sexual abuse, or controlling behaviour.His refusal to pull his weight with the children is also abusive.

Abuse always escalates unfortunately. I recommend you read Lundy Bancroft Why does he do that.

[idlikemoresleep]

Did you try sticking the sun cream up his arse and giving him a slap with a wet fish?

Sorry but I couldn't put up with that. Then again I wouldn't be running around doing everything while he's snoozing in bed either.

People treat you how you allow yourself to be treated. If you've tried talking to him about it and that hasn't worked then I'd remove every nice gesture you do for him or anything you do to be helpful. If he says he's going to do bedtime, leave the house and don't return until midnight. Walk away from any situation before he gets chance to shout at you.

He sounds like a bellend to be honest 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Coyoacan]

This must be terrifying for the children, it's not just a case of whether or not they grow up to think this is ok.

If do opt for counselling, don't go to couples counselling because you will probably get a counsellor like some of the earlier posters who want to blame you for making him shout.

[BlueUggs]

My dad was like this. He would shout, shout, shout and then withdraw for weeks. He blamed his job. When he retired, he then blamed my mum.
They've just got divorced after 46 years.
My mum constantly questions herself after being told she was wrong for so many years. She is scared of silence after so many years of withdrawal treatment.
I don't have a relationship with him anymore.
Do you want this?!

[Urbanbeetler]

Can you record him and play it to him with a trusted person near? Does he know how horrible it is to be on the receiving end of bullying shouting? Ask him if he really thinks that is acceptable. If you honestly want to stay with this excuse of a person, he needs to fully understand the effects of his behaviour. And if he already does then you really need to leave him.

[DuchyDuke]

My husband used to be a shouter too until I broke once and began to shout back. (Don’t do it often as I have a filthy temper). He got so terrified he hasn’t done it since.

[DownTownAbbey]

Has he always been a shouter? Or is this something that happened after you had kids?

Abusers often show their hands when they think you're trapped with them by marriage, having DC etc.

The storming out after getting out of doing his rare bedtime duty made me wonder if he often uses an imaginary slight to leave the house?

Can't believe pp think you're
In any way to blame for his disgusting behaviour! Unbelievable!

[bluedabadeedabadoo]

I'm not suffering any more. We split up 2 years ago. What I'm getting at is that I thought this was ok at the time but looking back I see how serious and terrifying it was and it has had a long term effect on me and most probably DSD. I felt the same as you.... that I couldn't leave because of the logistics etc. And because of no family support and no child care believe me when I say it wasn't easy. We did eventually separate and it took a few months to sort out all the practical things but I managed it and 2.5 years on I now hand on heart say is he best thing I ever did. I wish I did it years earlier and am so thankful we I don't have to endure this any more.

[DayKay]

His solution is to avoid being in the same room as him?
It’s all your fault. Your mere presence is the reason for his shouting.
I think it’s best if you avoid being in the same house.
He’s not going to change.
In the meantime, Don’t put up with his shouting. He thinks he’s such a dominant man so tell him he sounds like he has no control over himself when he shouts and it’s a sign of a weak person. Suggest he gets counselling to help him.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

sparkles,

re your comment:-
"I hate to think they'll grow up thinking that it's ok for a man to shout at a woman. People say leave, but it's really not that simple or easy".

It is not easy to leave I grant you but what other choice do you really have here?. What exactly is preventing you here from leaving your H?. Is it financial pressures, a fear of being on your own, fear of him?. If you can write about what is stopping you then perhaps you can get answers to those questions. You are married to this individual and have rights in law. You can divorce him.

Do you want your children also to believe of you that you are putting him before them?. I would say not but they could well come to that conclusion re you if you were to remain with your husband. They could well accuse you of being daft for staying and for putting him before them.

There is another thread on these pages about a man who grew up himself within a shouty household. He has now gone onto marry someone who has verbally and now physically abused him. Do not let that be your children's legacy going forward.

[NotTakenUsername]

I assume you are either sahm or he is ‘the main bread winner’?

The reason I guess this is that he is treating you with utter contempt. He has no use for you and no presence of mind to understand the worth you bring to the family.

His arrogance and unwillingness to join in is born from his belief that he earns the money, you do the other stuff, just like the olden days.

He also believes he owns you. Where would you go? How would you survive without this bread he so magnanimously earns for his little wifey and children?

He sounds disgusting.

*I accept a lot of this post might be projecting from things I’ve witnessed in my friendships circle.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

If counselling is to happen here then Sparkles should attend alone. She needs to be able to speak in both a calm and safe environment.

Such men like Sparkles H are not for being counselled; this man would not ever be likely to attend such sessions anyway and he really does think he is doing nothing wrong here. I would imagine too that his father did similar to his mother. He wants to dominate here and play the Big Man.

Abuse is about power and control and is not down to communication or a perceived lack of. He wants absolute over sparkles and in turn his children.

[Shrimpi]

I think ultimately that if his behaviour doesn't stop, then the end line is leaving him as it isn't fair for you (or your kids) to spend your life like this.

Really, this is his problem so he needs to find the solution. Your role should just be in setting boundaries and possibly, prompting him slightly.

I would start with a serious chat about the shouting - tell him that it is ruining your life and your marriage. He needs to know that failing to address this issue could take away his family life. Tell him his behaviour makes you feel afraid of him. Does he want his children to be afraid for their mother? When I had a (much lesser) issue with my husband not doing enough work around the house I told him that it was spoiling our marriage and asked "do you expect me to live my life like this?". It was really hard because I love him and I hate giving him a hard time. But the words had a real impact and though he didn't change overnight he started to really make an effort.

You may make some suggestions - do you need to change something at work? Change job? Do you have a mood problem that needs treatment? Do you need to find another outlet (aggressive sport for example)? Can we have a system where you go away and do something else apart from me and the kids when you are feeling stressed or angry? But remember, these are just suggestions you are not responsible for his behaviour, he is.

I think you should address the shouting as a priority above the inequity of chores/childcare, because it is an abusive behaviour.

The final thing I can suggest is a clear boundary, and I think you will need some organisation, and some safety planning to do it. If he shouts, you ask him once to stop. If he doesn't, you must stop whatever you are doing, walk away from him and if necessary physically leave the house with the kids and go somewhere else. You will obviously need someone else to stay with. If he tries to prevent you from leaving you call the police. Consider making an arrangement for and teaching your children to call a neighbour, nearby relative (or the police) for help if their dad won't stop shouting or won't let you go. And if that arrangement ever has to be used, I would simply leave him. If he escalates his behaviour in response to your boundaries then he is not a safe person to be around.

[Pessismistic]

Hi op I’m a bit similar being nice and what I think is nice isn’t necessarily for the op. Maybe he thinks you treat him as the 3rd dc? He’s frustrated he’s a grown man and your doing things for him that he is capable of doing. yes your trying nice and helpful but he can’t see that. No. So don’t do it. Spending the time to Be nice to you! i agree with others let him do the things he needs to do and you spend time on yourself take a break. Also out of interest did he shower knowing he would be going out? Does he shower every night? He acts like a teenager next time he storms off just say is that really necessary your not 13? If the shouting persists for no other reason walk out of the room. Show him your not taking it anymore I also think people shout at their nearest & dearest because they can’t do it to others. I’ve done it myself not intentionally but frustration takes over. I hope you start being nicer to yourself and let him be the grown up too. He survived before you came along. Good luck.