Shouty husband - what to do?

[SparklesXYZ]

My DH and I are not speaking, again, after he started shouting at me once again. Here are a couple of examples of recent incidents:

a) DH was meant to get to the kids ready for bed, but he was in the shower, so I got things going. (DH rarely gets our DC ready for bed. He says he'll do it once a week, but often doesn't.) When I told him I'd got things going, I thought he'd just say thank you, as I was simply trying to help. He reacted badly by shouting at me, telling me that everything was run according to my agenda and that he didn't know when bedtime was! (Our DC are 6 and 7. Bedtime has been the same for over a year...) He accused me of winding him up (?!) and after shouting at me for a few minutes, he stormed out of the house.

b) At the weekend, I got the DC up, washed, breakfasted and ready for their club that morning, while my DH was still in bed. The sun was already strong and after having applied suncream on both my DC, I went and got the adult sun cream for my DH to put on. I thought this was a thoughtful and kind gesture, but he just started having a go at me for making them late by getting him to put sun cream on (DH burns easily). Considering DH got up about 45 mins after us, I found it unbelievable.

Incidents of this nature are occurring more and more. I think I'm just being nice/kind/thoughtful and he just shouts at me. I don't understand how you can shout at someone who is fundamentally just trying to be nice. I don't understand why he would never shout at anyone else, but shouts at the person who loves him and does so much for him. I don't want to put up with being shouted at for the rest of my life.

Any thoughts on what the way forward is? Do you know any other couples where the husband shouts at the wife a lot?

[Deathraystare]

They ARE his kids, right? Has he ANY interest in them at all? Sounds unlikely. He doesn't know/care when they go to bed. Would rather a kid drown in a pool than get off his arse and deal with HIS kid.

What use is he???

[category12]

Sounds to me like he didn't want to put the dc to bed so deliberately showered then.

I think your description of sending the dc to another room as he's about to shout at you is heartbreaking. For your dc. Doesn't that make him cringe for himself? Ugh.

[shiklah]

You are a more organised and capable person than him. He is lazy and disorganised and then shouts at you because he feels inadequate.

[Littletinyraindrops]

You already know this is wrong and you shouldn't be putting up with it going by your replies to pps.
You also know it's abuse, so I'm not sure why you're putting up with it?
Sorry if that sounds a bit blunt, but you already know all of this anyway.
Your choices are to either carry on putting up with it, tell him to get some fucking anger management and hope it works, or you leave him so your DC don't think this is acceptable.
My parents are angry people, horrible with each other, and I grew up in a house full of shouting and anger. I've learnt to cope with my own anger issues, to some degree, which more than likely largely stem from growing up in that sort of environment.
And, generally, the shouting starts with the spouse and carries with the kids.

[shiklah]

He’s reacting from the he sounds of it - it doesn’t seem to me that you are babying him at all, I think you are being a ‘team player’ but you’re falling into being a player/manager and he can’t stand that you are more capable than him.

My dh used to shout at me. He is 6 foot 6 and I am 5 foot 4. One day I climbed on a chair and shouted back waving my arms - that shut him up. after that the worm turned and every time he started I said ‘don’t shout at me’ and walked away, no matter what was going on. Now he sulks, and the problems are still there - he’s passive and disorganised - but no more shouting.

The phrase I used was
‘Why are you shouting at me. I don’t deserve your anger. Sort yourself out’ and I walked away. Every. Single. Time.

[SparklesXYZ]

sprouts Thank you for the book recommendation. I've just been having a look at it on Amazon. I'm definitely going to get it.

I know he's verbally abusive, but how will I get DH to see that he is and to get him to change?

[SparklesXYZ]

blueuggs Sorry to hear your dad was like this. No, I don't want this, which is why things need to change and why I'm looking into what the first steps of that change should be.

[Zaphodsotherhead]

What does he do if, as soon as he start to raise his voice, you turn and walk away? Does he follow you to continue the shouting or does he let you go?

My strategy with my shouty ex was always to turn and walk off as soon as the voice started rising. I wouldn't listen to him until he calmed down. The day he followed me to carry on shouting, I knew it was all over. That I no longer had any autonomy in the relationship and was there merely as a 'stress reliever' for Mr High And Mighty.

[SparklesXYZ]

Lots of you have suggested counselling, but if DH goes to counselling alone, I'm sure he won't admit to shouting at me and put all of blame for his behaviour on me, work or whatever else is the flavour of the day. If we talk, he doesn't care about how I feel, everything is always about him.

How do I get DH to see and accept what he is doing is verbal abuse? How do I then get DH to stop the verbal abuse?

People ask why I want to stay. Well, like most shouty men I guess, these explosions are awful when they happen, but he can also be wonderful to me, too. I just wish the explosions would stop. I'm not saying I'm definitely going to stay, but I want to explore what can be done to prevent separation.

[SparklesXYZ]

zap DH used to shout at me, then walk off before I had the chance to respond. Now, I shout back, which I know isn't great, but I don't see why he gets to just shout at me.

[AngkorWaat]

Ah op my ex husband was like this. It was great in between the outbursts, but I ended up walking on eggshells the whole time.

He’s married to someone else now, who he shouts at instead. My kids report back that he regularly makes her cry.

I can’t tell you how happier I am not having to deal with that crap anymore. I’m afraid unless he wants to change, you cannot make him realise what he’s doing. You can’t make an abusive person suddenly want to stop being abusive.

[DayKay]

When you shout back, what do you shout? Are you shouting to defend yourself? Or attacking back?
Don’t get into a shouting match. walk away with a comment like ‘I’m not going to stand here and be verbally abused by you’

When he’s being normal and nice, do you ever talk about it?

[SparklesXYZ]

daykay When I shout back, I'm defending myself against the ludricrous accusations he's slinging at me. He always twists what I say. Another recent example of when he started shouting at me was when I asked if he could tuck his chair in at the dinner table. He'd finished his dinner about 30 mins before I politely asked him if he could tuck his chair in. He never used to tuck his chair in at all (you might think this is a small thing, but I think it's just the courteous thing to do once you're finished at the table) and for about a decade, I used to tuck his chair in for him. Everyday, every fucking day. Then my DC started tucking in their own chairs and I wondered why I should have to tuck my DH's chair in if my young DC can tuck their own chairs in (unprompted)? Anyway, when I asked DC if he could tuck his chair in (he was stood right by it when I asked him), he shouted at me and said I was clicking my fingers and demanding him to do things immediately! I just don't know how a polite: "Can you tuck your chair in, please?" can turn into what he thinks he heard? I often still just tuck his chair in for him to prevent him exploding.

[hellsbellsmelons]

I don't want to leave, I want DH to stop shouting at me
Well then you are in a lose/lose situation.
He will NOT stop shouting at you.
Why would he?
What are the consequences for him for shouting at you??
NONE!!!!
You put up with it.
Walk on eggshells and he just carries on.
Only one to stop him shouting at you!!
You know what to do.
This is not fair on your DC.
They are growing up in an abusive household.
You need to get them away from this and you know it.
Sooner rather than later.
Let them learn that women don't put up with this shit.
That we are strong and capable.
Maybe a chat with Womens Aid would help you to see this for what it is!??

[MikeUniformMike]

I don't think you should leave him but you need to do something.
You need to let things like the tucking the chair in go, I'm afraid, or deal with it once and for all. It's obvious isn't it. If he remembered to tuck in the chair, you'd not nag him. If he forgot, then a raised eyebrow, and "chair" might work. Lots of people don't tuck their chair in, and annoying as it is, is it really worth arguing about?

The biggest problem is that:
You are "running the family", and
He has become "the breadwinner".

One option might be for you to get a job, and you both run the family.
Another might be that you stay in your roles and put up and shut up.
Neither are probably easy but neither is the current situation.

Is there anyone who could mediate?

Having said that, if things don't improve then you need to consider your current situation. Should you leave, if he gets EOW or something, he will need to pick up the childcare and household duties and you'd need an income. It would make sense to sort things out now.

[LongNLean]

You deserve to be treated way better than this.

[Bibesia]

You need to make it clear to him that you simply will not tolerate this. If he can control himself in front of his children and at work, he can control himself with you. Don't shout back, but every single time say very firmly"I have asked you not to shout at me. Please stop." And be ready to walk away if he doesn't - if necessary, walk out of the house leaving him in charge. He needs to know that you are not his safety valve.

My husband, who admittedly doesn't sound anything like as bad as yours, learnt very quickly after the first couple of times I answered him back and used that tactic.

[DayKay]

Don’t shout back to defend yourself. He’s not listening.
Instead, think of a stock answer that feels natural to you that you repeat to him and walk away. Like ‘I’m not listening while you shout’ or ‘I’m not here for you to abuse’

Does he ever admit that he shouts and shouldn’t be doing it? You really need to have a very serious conversation about this.

[Costacoffeeplease]

You can’t make him see, he doesn’t want to

You can’t change him

You’re on a hiding to nothing here, and now you’re lowering yourself to his level by shouting back. Your poor kids

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Mike

Mediation is a non starter if there is abuse within the relationship. OPs husband is not for listening to anyone, the only opinion that matters to him is his own. This is also learnt behaviour too, he likely saw this within his own home when he was growing up.

Why should OP not leave him; this is not acceptable behaviour from anyone let alone this poster's H. The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is NONE.

Sparkles- all your kids are seeing is their dad shouting at you their mum and you trying unsuccessfully to defend yourself from his verbal onslaught. Its no legacy to leave these children it really is not. He will not stop shouting at you, he does this also because he can and it works for him. This is all about power and control, the man wants absolute over you and these children who are also seeing and hearing far more than you care to realise as well.

[pudding21]

Sparkles I was you. My ex was always "shouty" but he started to take it to the next level in the final three years of our relationship. Belittling, swearing a lot in front of the kids whilst shouting at me for something insignificant. Turned violent once. I tried to stop him, I tried to minimise the impact on the kids. In the end the only option I had was to leave although I loved him and din't want to leave at the start. Once I saw his vile spats for what they were, I started to lose respect for him and I was really really miserable for 3 years until I snapped.

I have been gone 17 months now and I no longer need to creep round on egg shells, there is rarely any raised voices in my house, and when the kids are with him they say he is much calmer (he hasn't got me to get wound up with). i was his verbal punch bag, for whatever went wrong. A lot of his issue is he has anxiety, drinks too much and isolates himself. His self esteem was shot, but in turn instead of addressing it he took it all out on me. In the end, NOTHING ever felt good enough. i was working full time (he wasn't) doing almost all the "wife work" apart from a few meals and cleaning, I did everyhting. he even lost his driving licence for a while which meant I spent 4 months doing all the ferrying around as well. In the end I realised I was better off alone.

I still watch what I say to him, but I don't let him have the opportunity to shout at me anymore (we have kids I have to deal with him). He is angry and bitter about everything, but he was before anyway.

Last week my 10 year old called someone a fucking bitch (a 6 year old boy at his school). I had a long discussion with him, and he referred back to his Dad, basically saying well Dad does it. Usually he is mild mannered and polite, but a boy annoyed him and this is how he retaliated (we had a long chat about how words hurt etc, he knows he was wrong). He didn't get that from me.

Its verbal abuse, and once you see it as that, your ideas will shift. No one deserves to live in an enviroment where they fear anger and being shouted at. No one. You watch what you say, you modify your behavious, it is like slow chinese torture. Soon you won't recognise who you are anymore. Good luck OP.

[Mrsramsayscat]

I think he's lazy, and leaving you to do the lions share. Then shouting to distract you when you complain, as he doesn't plan to change.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Not all abusive men are nasty all the time Sparkles and your H is nice to you some of the time. However, what you do not realise or want to acknowledge is that this from him is part of the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that cycle is a continuous one.

His verbal abuse of you will not stop and could actually further escalate when he decides that what he is doing to you in terms of shouting at you is not enough to cower you. Getting him to see that he is being verbally abusive towards you is an exercise in futility; ultimately you will need to separate yourself completely from him.
His actions are not loving, they are about power and control and he wants absolute over you.

What were you like before you met this man?. My guess is that now at least, you are a shadow of your former self.

[MikeUniformMike]

I meant mediate, as in a relative/friend/neighbour/priest or somebody.
OP wants a solution and doesn't want to leave.
I'm trying to be objective and to offer practical suggestions.
It does sound like verbal abuse to me, but I am not there.
If the couple love each other and it isn't verbal abuse, then it would probably be better to find a solution that works.

[hellsbellsmelons]

No abusive men are abusive all the time.
How would they keep their 'victims' that way?
They wouldn't.
It's a cycle.
Google - the cycle of abuse.
It's a whole nice/nasty - Jekyll/Hyde thing.
It's what they all do!
Horrible, then when they see they've pushed a bit too far they dangle the 'nice' carrot and you think you are getting the old them back.
Then WHAM. Nasty again!