I regret therapy

[Fuckedoffat48b]

I am 17 weeks pregnant with mine and my partner's first baby and got back from a visit to PILs on Sunday evening. They were awful.

They have always been awful. It is the gigantic thorn in the side of an otherwise happy, loving relationship and has significantly affected my mental health, along with a poor relationship with my own parents.

I have done both couples therapy with DH and then quite intensive psychoanalytic therapy just for me over two years (ended just over a year ago) and I feel that it has served only to make me the focus of the blame for the poor relationship with them and give me unrealistic expectations of what is achievable. Which I am then blamed for when these expectations are not achieved.

I feel therapy is to blame for some of this outcome and I am not entirely sure where to go from here?

Not a professional - but surely the therapy was intended for you to take control? Take ownership of your own choices and be accountable with healthy boundaries? "Unrealistic expectations" could mean that you need to lower them, or again, have boundaries? Not sure what else there is.

The expectations I am talking about are the expectation that I can spend any time with them and not feel awful and flat for days afterwards. The therapist suggested I needed to stop being bothered by their endless horribleness but I am not.

I feel more mentally unwell than I have done in about a year right now.

That was not what you needed, you perhaps needed from this person permission to feel properly aggrieved by their own endless horribleness. Just telling someone to stop being bothered by another person's own horrible behaviour is about as effective as peeing in the ocean.

I would look at and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages as that could help you a great deal.

What does your H think of his parents behaviours towards him and in turn you, he is also key here. Does he defend you to them?. Does he revert to childlike mode in their presence and actively still wants their approval?.

What boundaries as well do you have re the ILs?. These may again have to be revisited and revised.

Atilla, I have been working on this for the best part of a decade. The past three years in ernest. I have been on the stately homes thread. I have issues with my own parents who are also dysfunctional, but tbh it is my inlays who are properly bonkers.

I think a lot of the problem stems from DH. When I first met him he was absolutely adamant that his parent were lovely, intelligent people who it would be a privilege for me to meet and that I should love them to demonstrate I loved him. He would generally flat out deny that incidents i.e. shouting and sneering at me had even happened. He said that if I had an argument with his parents that was 'between me and them' and of course he wouldn't defend me. They were his parents after all.

Then we had some therapy and he realised that my failure to love them was not a reflection on my feelings for him. He has slowly, very very slowly, started to realise that actually yes they are quite difficult (couples therapy was 7 years ago).

However, he never responds to their behaviour and becomes quite hysterical if I threaten to. He will also still occasionally not even realise it is happening. The current row we are having is regarding a single incident (among many hundreds you understand) that took place this weekend where his mother snapped and shouted at me during a posh restaurant meal for a family event. About how I 'had to do as I was told' regarding a passport application of all sodding things (it is always something spectacularly trivial spun into nastiness).

The only boundaries we only really have wrt inlaws is that we don't see them very often. And I am expected to be grateful for that.

Sorry, wrt to the incident. He doesn't even remember it happening. Has charitably suggested this may have been because he was drunk at the time, but I think he just closes his ears and eyes of/erases any memories of his parents' behaviour being less than ideal even when it is happening literally inches from his face.

Tell us about the boundaries you have in place for your in laws and what happens if they're breached. What do you do? E.g one of PIL ignores you three times in a row, they don't set a place for you etc?

Apologies. You've said some of them. So if she shouts you need to do as you're told. What do you say?

Trickyboots If only they ignored me! A common difficult thing with them I have started stamping down on is them asking me the same question/getting me to repeat things. I will repeat something twice and then on the third request for information I have just given them respond with 'I have already told you twice and I won't say it a third time'. They respond by looking at me as though I have two heads and huffing and stropping.

WRT the shouting at first I firmly, without shouting just responded that I wasn't going to do X,Y and Z. She then shouted louder and became more hysterical. I responded again that I am not going to do X,Y and Z. She then got really nasty, shouty and snappy and personal so I ignore her. Then I think she thinks she won the argument…

On one memorable occasion I asked her to stop speaking to me 'like that' which resulted in a family argument so enormous, our wedding was nearly called off and my DH still blames me for 'being confrontational'.

In case it helps I have recently started to split their difficult behaviour into three pillars from bad to worse

Appalling faffing, dithering and obsessing - This on its own may not be too bad, and I am aware people have good relationships with ILs who do this, but makes seeing them very practically difficult and stressful. I think it is also a deliberately rude behaviour, and form of control.

Vile comments and behaviour - They are disabalist, racist, islamophobic, misogynistic bullies who come out with utterly disgusting stuff. This is mainly aimed at everyone else in the world but occasionally at me. There was a grotesque Harvey Weinstein quip that was made on this last visit to me, which DH had the decency to nearly fall off his chair over.

They also brag about their drunk driving and nastiness to shop assistants etc.

Shouting and snapping - Their tone with me is on occasion completely unacceptable. A normal conversation can very quickly turn into a verbal, shouty attack which DH has never once confronted.

You appear to have it all clear in your mind and therapy will have helped you to realise your own feelings...which is great. How you proceed going forwards seems the tricky part. I'm afraid we stopped seeing and talking to PILs after some of the sorts of behaviour you describe. They've never met their grandchildren (thank goodness) but in my situation, this has been led by DH who sees them for who they are. Despite many attempts to find a neutral ground, it wasn't to be and a complete cut off has been the right decision.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this- I'm afraid it sounds like your DH's lack of awareness and acceptance and therefore support that is more the issue....

Any chance of emigrating before your baby is born?

I think I'd write down my boundaries. E.g timing of visits, who will drive (so you can leave when you wish), frequency of visits, types of faffing/obsessing and what you'll do if it impacts you e.g ignore unless directly involves you and then say, I'll spend 5 minutes on this and then I'm doing something else or whatnot. If rude to you , what you'll say e.g " I don't appreciate your tone. So I'm ending this conversation". If racist "I completely disagree with your views, they're rascist- I will not tolerate those views being expressed in front of my children, so we will be leaving or I'm changing the subject now".

They'll hate you, but eventually it will work. And you will have the satisfaction of being true to yourself. Your husband probably can't be relied upon to support you with them, I'd work on accepting that bit and he's learned to keep the head down. If he gets angry at you naturally enforcing reasonable boundaries explain you'll have to go no contact with the PIL if you can't defend your boundaries. If he can't accept your boundaries then...

Eyerolls this is the thing. Intellectually I get it. It is sorted and I understand why they are so vile and why I am so upset.

But I still am very, very upset. And I think it is partly to do with what I now feel to be some victim blaming in therapy. I am blaming myself for 'letting' this happen to me iyswim.

Hmm. Imo, Psychoanalytic therapy is useful at helping you see dynamics and emotions clearly but bloody useless at helping you cope with what you see and feel in everyday situations. I'd go for a short burst of CBT. That will help you train your thoughts in a more practical way. So, with CBT guideline sin mind, I'd be very practical when meeting up next with in-laws. I'd decide in advance that I won't rise to any bait, racist or otherwise. I'd disarm them with calmness and pelasantry. So if they say something racist and then challenge you with, 'I bet 'Fuckedoff' is terribly insulted by that' just smile and say, 'You know me so well' or say, calmly and sweetly, 'Yes, you're right - we think very differently on that.'
Separate out their behaviour from your own emotions. You are not responsible for their attitudes, so don't take on emotions arising from them. There are tricks and techniques you can do to get through this on social situtaions. You can:

• play MiL bingo: (On your mental score card: a dig at you, a racist slur, a misogynistic slur etc. You get points in your mind for each one. It is not your responsibility to try (and fail) to change their outlook. It is your responsibility to manage your own MH as best you can, and raise your own child to be free from bigotry.)

• play self-bingo (one mark on your personal mental scorecard for every time you let an attack wash off you, for not rising to bigotry bait etc.
• put an object made of some natural substance (wooden pepperpot, glass tumbler, floral arrangement) between you and them. Toush it when you need to, to 'earth' yourself and conduct their bile out of you and into the ground.

- Just get up and walk away. Clear dishes, go to the loo, take an urgent phone call, check something with the waiter etc. - Play a mental mantra: you don't control my feelings or my reactions, mate.

With a particularly nasty relative of mine, I go quite cool, emotionaless and efficient. I see him squirm with fury that I won;t rise to his bait anymore. He can't control me and he knows it and it's bffled him. he;s worked out that I don;t give a shit what he says or does any more. He can't touch my mind or my heart. And he just seems so baffled these days when we meet because all the enjoyment he had out of twisting the knife or sneering at me, DH, my children, my lifestyle etc is gone. He's gitted. Even DSis has remarked on the change. And I truly don't care. It's quite liberating.

Sorry - so many typos.

The “victim blaming” you describe, where somehow you were made to feel responsible for allowing yourself to be badly treated when in fact you had every reasonable assumption of being well treated (your husband had prepped you to think the relationship with your in laws would go swimmingly) is outrageous.

It sounds like the fact that you have had therapy = you are the problem in their eyes? When my STBXH would not go to couples therapy with me, I went on my own. The result was that he saw me as the one with problems because I was the one in therapy. So I understand the dynamic.

It sounds really, really difficult. I can't imagine spending 2 years in therapy because of my inlaws. That's completely over the top. I spent 2 months in therapy because I decided to end my marriage. After 2 months I felt well equipped to go through with the split with my dignity intact. It doesn't sounds like you go much out of your therapy?

Your husband is as much a problem as his parents are. He grew up with them and regards their abusive behaviours as normal.

Setting firm and consistent boundaries re his parents may prove to be in itself challenging because they could rail actively against any boundary you care to set. Would you want your as yet unborn child to have any sort of contact with them after you give birth?. That is a question you need to now consider amongst many others.

Would your H ever accept you not seeing them at all from now on?
If push came to shove do you think your H would choose his parents over you?. I think that his own fear, obligation and guilt re them is completely clouding his own judgment and as such I do not think he will be ever able to assert his own self here. He does not want to do that and they won't let him. He won't defend you as his wife, the person whose primary loyalty should now be towards, out of fear of disapproval. He would rather I think still throw you under the bus to save his own skin.

OP, while you are blaming therapy and blaming yourself you are failing to put the blame where it lies: with your DP and his family. No amount of personal insight and nothing you do will make him and his family behave as you want them to.

It does not sound as though you have a happy, loving relationship. It sounds as though his love for you is conditional on the basis that you allow his family to treat you badly.

Actually, I think you should go non contact, to protect yourself.

You can use all the strategies in the world to try and stop feeling so bad when they are horrible to you, but if they're vile, they're vile and why should you be the one turning yourself inside out to solve the problem that they are causing.

Trickyboots, ok in that regard boundaries are already as follows

1. One, preferably two night stay maximum. They push back against this hardest, though I have actually had support from DH in supporting this. We just turned down a summons to a 'weekend abroad' that turned out to be a five day holiday they had planned.

1. We don't have a car but I want to get one partly for this reason.

1. I don't really know how to enforce rules regarding faffing as as soon as they stop one form they start another. One thing I do do is just start eating at meal times rather than wait for them to sit down which is expected (or I would never eat).

1. I have actually stopped challenging the racist, disablist, misogynistic views as it just invited mockery and made me into the bad guy who was being horrible to them/calling them racist etc. I think pulling them up on it encouraged them and made them worse as they got a reaction out of me for it.

However, this pregnancy has made me realise that I may have to try a different tactic

Please stop seeing them.
Why would you?
Your DH can see them when he likes but you do NOT have to go with him.
You must go NC on them.
It's not right that you put up with this.

And by the way - your DH, is a spineless asshole and you should seriously consider this relationship long term!!!
He won't change.
You and his DC will never come first.
Why put yourself through that?
Value yourself enough to say NO!!!
I do NOT like your parents. They are vile to me and I refuse to spend any more time in their company. Life is too short. Off you go but I'm not joining you!
Job done!

All sorts of stuff with regards to both toxic relations and toxic parents comes to the forefront particularly when an adult child of such offspring becomes a parent.

I would adopt a no contact position with them now. Same for your child; why should your as yet unborn child be subjected to their emotional manipulations?. You being yourself subjected to them has been bad enough. Look also at how your H has been himself stymied at their hands.

If it was me I wouldn't even visit the fuckers. Your DH is a spineless gobshite but has been raised by these people so is conditioned to accept it.
MIL hates not being able to control you and the more you push back the worse she will get. Just switch off to her.

I would keep contact with baby to a minimum and never let them have the child alone.

Yep - your new tactic is to never see them again.
And also, your DH is abusive to you.
Look up 'gaslighting abuse'
He does this to you all the time!
The apple never falls far from the tree when abuse is involved.
I suggest you get yourself out and away from this entire family!

You could also read THIS BOOK
And then get THIS BOOK for your 'D'H!