Recalibrating my "type"; how to spot a decent man?

[Daysinthesun]

I've never had a relationship that made me happier than it hurt me. This was due to having a poor relationship template from my parents, who are themselves the product of dysfunctional partnerships. I also had very low self esteem, compounded by spending so much time with abusive men. I also suffer from depression and have had severe episodes requiring hospitalisation.

I'm 30 next year and moving into a new stage in my life. I'll have qualified as a doctor soon and am proud of how far I've come. Over the past few years, I've done a lot of work on myself in conjunction with counsellors.

I had a false start last year while dating, and ended up seeing a manipulative man who cheated on me. I didn't notice the signs. He was clever.

I know I see the best in others and my kindness can make me vulnerable. I'm older, but still have a naive streak that comes from my inherently gentle temperament. I find it very hard to express anger, as I find it fizzles out quite quickly.

I'm starting to get a sense of what I would like in terms of a companion. I have a good set of friends, but would like an intimate relationship as well.

I have a friend I've spent time with recently. Everyone that knows him says he's a lovely person. He's kind, intelligent and makes me laugh so much. After I've spent time with him, I don't feel anxious; I feel light and happy. Before now, I've always gone for the "bad boy" or someone wounded that I felt I needed to save. But he doesn't try to take anything from me... he just is himself, supportive and sweet to me.

I'm wondering if something has clicked and I'm on a better path now. Has anyone experienced this? Even if nothing happens with this person, at least I might be heading in the right direction.

But I'd like to know the warning signs so I don't ignore them. I've become acclimitised to so much bad behaviour that I know historically I've excused things I shouldn't.

I can't ask my mother about this, so was wondering if you might help me.

I want to spend time with someone who is like my friend. Someone who will be kind to me and not make fun of me. Someone who won't degrade me sexually or force me into doing things I don't want him to. Someone reliable who won't stand me up and let me down. A man who isn't an addict and won't hit me in anger. I don't want a burning passionate love, but a hand to hold on a walk in the countryside and someone to cuddle at night. Love that is built on friendship and makes me feel safe.

But there's men who pretend to be that way and then reveal their true colours. How can I guard against them?

I read a David Foster Wallace quote that "a deep need for anything makes us easy pickings", and I think that's where I fell down in the past.

I hope this made sense and wasn't a disjointed stream of consciousness. Thank you for any help; I feel a bit of a need for parental guidance and know my own parents cannot give it.

Well done on getting so far. Any reason why the nice friend is not for you?

He is absolutely for me, but I'm not sure how he feels yet and I'm trying to take things slowly. I would really like it to work out but am being cautious, hence the post

I always went for bad boy longhaired tattooed bikers before I met DH. He is a short speccy clean living nerdy type, certainly not my type at all. And yet somehow he is

I remember when we first got together thinking it would never last, that I would get bored of his 'niceness' and yearn for another bad boy. I remember giving myself a mental slap and shake and thinking "noooooo, being nice is a good thing, don't be an idiot!"

Still here 20 years later, and he's still nice

The best relationships I've been in haven't been with the sexiest men. It's the men easiest to share with. Sharing laughter, sharing burdens. It's the ones who make you laugh, but you make them laugh too. (This may be controversial but...) the ones with good work ethics and respect for their mothers and love for their siblings. Friends first, always, for me.

Without wishing to upset anyone this isn’t atypical. Lots of women I know went for bad boys in their youth and only then settled down with a nice guy. The nice guys of course didn’t get loads of girls in their youth..... bad boy alpha male gets them instead.

Ain’t life funny with hindsight.

Thanks for the replies, this is a nice thread and I'm feeling positive

My advice would be not to be set on a specific physical type. Date people who make you feel special, the kind you find yourself talking to and who is confiding as much in you as you are to them, but most importantly be confident enough to leave immediately if it gets abusive.

Respect for their mothers is a huge point that I've only recently realised (and I'm 20 years older than you). A good relationship with their mums and speaking well of them.

I had a moment of revelation when I realised that was the common denominator for the men I've had relationships with who've been good guys.

I know that not everyone is blessed with a mother worthy of respect but if they weren't then they need to have genuinely worked that through and dealt with it.

Things I would look out for is how speaks about his other relationships. How he speaks about his parents/sisters/friends/ex girlfriends. These are people he is already having, or has had, relationships with so that’s the status quo. That’s how you can expect to be talked about further down the line once the honeymoon period has ended when he is talking about you with other people.

And don’t fall for the “I love my nan, I visit her every weekend” like. Believe it when you see it.

Free that is so true. I usually try to ascertain how their relationship with their mother is. It doens't always fit as some men can have had terrible relationships with their mothers but worked through it and dealt with it, but I do think it has a lot to do with how they respect and treat women, more so that their relationship with their father. Not a Mummy's boy, but one who talks about their Mum with respect and love.

OP: I am a bit like you, I discount so many "nice" men.........

Oh also, refrain from setting out your expectations of a partner to the person you would like to be a partner to. People aren’t stupid, they learn very quickly how to say the things that win them a check mark on list of criteria.

Basically, say less and listen more.

So-called WiseDad, yes, and I suppose no man has ever gone from choosing girls based on looks, how 'exciting' they are etc. in their youth to actually trying to find someone they get along with to settle down with.

It's almost as if we're the same species or something.

What you've written looks like some unpleasant manosphere rubbish.

Ah well, as long as you didn't wish to upset anyone with your regressive sexist bullshit .

OP, I never had the attraction to bad boys (as I found supposed 'nice guys' were quite capable of treating me like shit, thank you very much), but I did find that once I developed a bit of self-respect and started looking for what I actually wanted in a relationship, there were actually genuinely nice guys out there.

Don’t write anyone off until you’ve kissed them. Chemistry can be very well hidden and flare when you least expect it.

I once wrote a list of the qualities I wanted in a man. My husband ticks all the boxes . Things like looks or past relationships (e.g. no divorced men) were absent from my list. I wanted someone intelligent, hard working, with a similar set of morals to mine, sporty and a morning person. It seemed like such a silly exercise to do at the time, and yet it helped me focus on what really matters to me.

Were there ever moments at the start of your other relationships when you ignored something that wasn't quite right, finding an explanation for it or why it wasn't that important? I don't know how it is for others, but usually there's been some niggling little sign that I've remembered, that fits in with the later poor behaviour somehow.

I think it's important to feel like they have to please you, as well as you pleasing them. That if they are not up to scratch, they will not get to be with you. And to remind yourself of that sometimes, and be prepared to dump them if necessary!

You write well, I like your opening post. My husband is the original good guy. His two best qualities are kindness and a great sense of humour. He says love is a verb not a noun. He isn't very good at romantic gestures, but, he makes sure the grass is cut and dinner is cooked. He admired his mother and was a practical help to her.
Your friend sounds great, I read recently that if you are wondering if he is interested, it's pretty simple, he's talking to you and around so more than likely is interested. Love is a gamble and you always risk your heart. But you can punt on the favourite (respected, performing member of society) or put your house on the lame duck at the back. Never rescue anyone. Use your kindness on yourself and your future children by chosing a good father for them. I've a friend who says there is nothing sexier than seeing your husband be a good father - so remember to choose someone with the personal qualities to fill this role. Only date functioning adults whom you respect. Watch what he does, not what he says. I really distrust charm and anyone trying too hard to sell themselves. Maintain your boundaries. Educate yourself about abusive men. Know their tactics. Be prepared to be alone, if necessary.

What a dumb post. You state my observation is sexist and then defame men in general for preferring looks over brains. Well that’s what happens in reality. Too smart is challenging so lots of guys pick hot but not too smart. You see it tons of times. If you’re not hot and not too smart it’s going to be an issue if you’re a woman.

As for women’s choices. That’s just what it is. I neither condemn not compliment. I just remarked that lots of nice guys get passed over in younger years by some women who want a bad boy. When those self same women mature they discover other women married the nice guys. Again I neither condemn nor compliment for the hard of thinking.

You leaped on my post as if I am some moronic misogynist but your response says more about you than me.

I think the first step to changing a pattern is to recognise and acknowledge it. This seems to be what you have done.

The changes may be small at first, but they all add up.

You may move backwards at times and back into an unhealthy pattern & then really feel how painful that is, before you are ready to let go of that stuff.

Be gentle with yourself OP, you are on the right path.

You've taken the first steps by recognising your needs and wants as well learning from your experiences.

I agree with most of pp. Respect for their mothers and the way they speak about other woman is a key factor.
Chemistry, laughter and someone who has their shit together is ideal and the rest is up to you.

I would recommend reading some books if you haven't read them already not about dating per se but about how to spot the bad uns before you actually get a wack of their behavior.

Lundy bankcroft - why does he do that
And
Gavin de becker - The gift of fear

I found these to be valuable In life and not simply focused on the men but on myself too.

Are you for real @badtime?

It sounds like you're pretty much there. You've spotted patterns, you've identified why those patterns have happened and you're working to change them. Keep spending time with this friend and see how things go, I hope it does go somewhere.

In general though never ignore red flags, there's plenty of threads on here about that, you're probably better at spotting them than you think but it is easy to over look them when you're massively attracted to someone.

Just to add I've been mostly single for about 4yrs and met a couple non viables and a dated some amazing love interests but they didn't work out as we had different life goals.
People can fit perfectly in a lot of ways but you have to learn to recognise the paths that you are both on as essentially they become non starters or lots of compromise which leads to heartbreak.

I'm mostly content being single, I've learned lots and have freedom to explore the world as I see fit and grow as an individual, that's not to say I don't want a relationship and to be loved etc as I do recognise sometimes that I am lonely but there is value and self worth in there and one day I may be able to share myself and grow with someone else.

Sorry if that's too sentimental but hope you can understand what I'm saying.

You sound like you are being cautious and sensible and that's great, far too many people get swept away by 'love' (or lust) and then find that the person isn't what they thought they were. Anyone can be a charmer, say the right words etc.

As already said, always watch how a potential partner treats other people - is he polite and respectful, how does he treat waiting staff etc is a good start. Do your values match his? Kindness and good manners is essential to me, I got to know my DH for some time before we started dating - we were involved in the same voluntary work so I could tell what sort of person he really was before we became a couple. (Now married 30 years ).

That's why I think on line dating is so incredibly hard, you can't really know someone from just what they want to tell you about themselves.

That's why I think on line dating is so incredibly hard, you can't really know someone from just what they want to tell you about themselves
If you meet a man in the pub you don't know any more about him. In both cases, you get to know them over time. There's hardly any difference in my experience.