boyfriends sister is getting married

[tiar]

Hey guys bit of a long winded one but I'm really hoping for some advice as I'm stuck on what to do.
I have been with my boyfriend 6 years he is polish and I am English so once a year we go to Poland to see his family and once a year they will come and stay with us . They have always been so lovely to me but every time they come over they speak in polish which is fine but when I'm in the room I feel they should speak English as their English is very good and my polish is awful. I have tried to learn but its a very difficult language to grasp. so when I'm there and they speaking polish i feel very excluded from the conversations . The last time his sister and her fiancé came over the three of them sat speaking in polish while I was in the room so I couldn't join in with them my boyfriend knows this upsets me as I have told him many times before. so while his sister went up stairs I told him I was going to my sisters house as I felt uncomfortable. while I was gone of course they had asked where I was I thought he would have just made up an excuse but he didn't. i was really embarrassed as I didn't mean to cause any conflict. when I came back they had all had dinner and were watching tv and they all ignored me so I just went up to bed this continued for the rest of their holiday. on the night before they were due to go home my boyfriend and I got into an argument and he blamed the whole thing on me and said I should just put up with it as its only a few days a year. and his sister came out crying and told me I shouldn't be with her brother as I make him unhappy this got a bit heated between the two of us but I apologised even though I don't believe I should have. I still 7 months later feel very bitter about the argument.
So my dilemma is she getting married next month I have been invited to the wedding but I haven't spoke to them since this fight and feel embarrassed awkward and bitter. His mum keeps asking my boyfriend what I'm wearing so they are expecting me to go but I have been telling him for months I'm not going to the wedding. my boyfriend is telling me I should go as it would be embarrassing for him if I didn't and I so get that and I wouldn't want him to have to go alone and be embarrsed as I haven't gone with him but I just feel really awkward as I haven't seen them since this argument and I'm not sure who she told . please guys what would you do. I don't feel confident enough to go but at the same time I don't want them to hate me if I don't go.

Some languages are bastard hard to learn

Of course they are and I’m crap at languishes myself. However the OP has been with her Polish DP 6 years and I’ve learnt more phases just for a week’s holiday abroad.

It’s rude. Plus she’s had the benefit of a native speaker to practice with. She can’t be bothered because it’s not that important to her. No excuses.

Scottishdiem has the right attitude. The very British attitude to learning another language and expecting the rest of the world to speak language is a complete embarrassment to our nations

I find this a bit weird, as when I met my now DH I didn't speak his language. He spoke fluent English but none of his family spoke anything but long forgotten school English (and mil not even that as she grew up in a former eastern block country).

I never once expected them to speak English around me and was ashamed of myself not making time to learn their language til we were already married, and even then not well til we moved to his country.

I find it really entitled to sit in a room with multiple people all with one native language and a history together longer than their history with me, and demand they all speak in a language foreign to them to include me.

Do you have any idea of the incredible isolation of not being allowed to speak your native language?

Do you understand the strain of operating in your second language if you learned it as a mature adult rather than growing up with it?

Can you grasp how you are never the same person in a language not native to you as in your mother tongue?

I live my life in my husband's language now and it's exhausting and alienating and isolating even though I speak it well. I speak English to my kids and if anyone told me not to they'd be out of my life quicker than a mouldy tomato found in the bottom of the fridge. Fortunately I've never met anyone that ignorant.

I think it's something only a native English speaker would expect (and I say that as a native English speaker). We think we have some devine right to understand and be accommodated.

Nope, we don't.

YABU to expect his family to talk only in English when they visit,because a. Its exhausting to speak in a language other than your mother tongue all the time, so when one gets the opportunity to speak in said language they relish it. They can say 100 times more things in their native tongue than in a foreign language and when a visit is limited they would want to catch up as much as possible. B. After 6 years you should really be ashamed that you have only learned three phrases in his language. His family probably think you are rude and entitled to not even attempt to learn a bit more of their language especially if you are serious about the relationship. English is not my first language and my partner has learned much more than that in less time (admittedly most of his vocabulary consists of delicacies he likes eating lol). Also you should realise that Polish are very family oriented and close knit, which means failure to go this wedding will be perceived as you rejecting them, and we'll ur relationship will be most likely short lived after that. Although I will admit ur bf could do a better job at translating things to you so you feel more included. Bit you are the one that has made a massive mess out of this. You should be grateful you were invited as it means the family wants to put the matter behind them. The way I see it, If you don't go, he will be embarrassed, his family will feel u don't want to be around them, they will stop visiting so often, he will get resentful that his family feel unwelcome in his home, and it will just go downhill

I think it’s a bit unfair for them to all speak in their second language to each other just because one person doesn’t speak their language very well.
^^this
Really you need to decide if there is a future together. If so you need to make an effort to learn Polish properly, get some proper lessons and discuss ways you can all be included in the conversation (alternate evenings in each language?) Again if you think you have a future you need to go to the wedding.

I'm a bit on the fence with this. OP I think you should go to the wedding, as if you don't it will drive a wedge between you and your BF - you won't be able to take it back.

BUT, if you want it to work you need to make an effort to learn polish AND your BF needs to do real time translation to include you and help you join in - the 2 aren't exclusive.

My DB has married my fab SIL who is from a very different culture and her parents don't speak very much English at all, despite living in an English speaking country for 30+ years, but SIL encourages DB to learn as much as he can and runs interference to ensure everyone can join in the conversation and build a relationship.

Don't make it about you vs them as it will probably drive you apart. The polish community (from my experience) is very close knit, but also very welcoming if you make the effort. I hope it works out for you

My Dh doesn't speak my mother tongue and initially all my family when visiting made the effort to speak English but overtime we just all slip into our mother tongue.

We are not rude, I don't see them much and it's hard to communicate to each other in English for those few days or weeks a year.

My Dh is used to it and just goes next door or goes out and does his thing. He's never offended by it at all. I can imagine it's difficult at times but you just get used to it. I would definitely go to the wedding.

coffee I must say not everyone can do simultaneous translation. My kids are truly bilingual, but only one of the 3 can simultaneously translate. Two of them don't consciously "hear" which language is being used, it's too intuitive. Only one can "receive" one language and simultaneously "transmit" the other in translation. The one of my kids who can do it started doing it as a preschool child, but the other 2 are junior school age and can't, they"just understand" and respond in the language they are addressed in, they can't translate. It's a very specific and quite special skill. If your brother or sil can do it, that's fantastic, it's something really special.

I think the only person being rude and unreasonable here is you, OP, and I say that as someone who doesn't speak a language other than English. Can you imagine if you and your family went to visit his in Poland, and were branded rude for not speaking Polish to include the others? I have a feeling you'd apply your logic of "but they should speak English" in that situation as well.

It's their native language. As others have said, they may speak English very well, but it'll never be the same as communicating in the language they grew up speaking together. It's a few days a year. Make more of an effort with your Polish and stop sitting there in a huff, try and start a conversation! And you will look incredibly petulant if you don't go to the wedding.

As a side note, as others have said, us English' attitude to languages is disgraceful. I'd be going to classes every week if I had a partner whose mother tongue wasn't English.

my boyfriend is telling me I should go as it would be embarrassing for him if I didn't
so his feelings matter and 'need' to be respected.......but yours don't and you deserve to be publicly shamed and humiliated in your own home for confiding in him in private?

he chose to stir shit between you and his family, he chooses to leave you feeling uncomfortable when they're all together, he chose not to defend you to his sister....and now yet again he's choosing to place his feelings above yours.
All the effort you've made previously has been unappreciated consistently.......
so why do you want a lifetime of this crap with him?

I would have gone to my sister's house without telling him the reason...unless he asked.

I'm also not sure I'd have stayed with him after his sister had a go and he did nothing.

If you're not planning to end the relationship then go to the wedding.

I did wonder why what you're wearing is their concern though.

It's a very specific and quite special skill

no it isn't when if you grow up in a bilingual practicing family.
i may not be able to translate fluently it's still good enough to facilitate good communication.
Learning french and spanish during my teen school years and having to translate that was a specific skill.

my nephews and nieces can understand the mother tongue and reply in english, they can't speak it nor translate it simply because their parents choose not to practice it at home.

@sandy it's an indirect way of asking if she is coming

OP = I think you are being unfair about the language. I have in laws who speak another language and as they don't get a lot of time together it's really special and important to them to speak that language together.

You see your boyfriend all the time - can't you let him just speak in Polish to his family on the rare times he sees them?

My husband loves speaking his language - would you want to speak a second language to your own family if you only saw them twice a year/ ?

I think you need to look at your own behaviour in this situation and try to make amends.

I never once expected them to speak English around me and was ashamed of myself not making time to learn their language til we were already married, and even then not well til we moved to his country.

I find it really entitled to sit in a room with multiple people all with one native language and a history together longer than their history with me, and demand they all speak in a language foreign to them to include me.

This.

@catinapatchofsunshine your post really surprised me, so I asked SIL on our way to work this morning and she said it isn't a big deal in her community - maybe in depends on the language/culture?

I met my now husband shortly after arriving in Germany.I came to Germany with absolutely no German skills.I was introduced to my now PIL's about one month after meeting my DH.They have never ever spoken a word of english to me .I was expected to speak in their language from the word go.In the beginning I listened a lot while in their company and with time also learned the language so much so that I am actually excited nowadays when I actually get to speak in English again.

HeebieJeebies you are absolutely wrong. Our family is about as bilingual practising as it is humanly possible to be. The children have been fully, deliberately and actively immersed in both languages from birth. Ironically enough I have to use DH's language exclusively at work, and he has to use mine.

We speak the minority language (English) almost exclusively at home (unless the house is full of the kids friends), it is our family language and the kids also read and write it, and I read to them every night. The rest of the children's lives (all of their friends, local school and before that local village Kindergarten, hobbies, socialising etc) is in the community language (German).

English people think my kids are monolingual English and Germans think my kids are monolingual Germans. They reply in the language they are addressed in (unless the person is speaking it very badly - speak really terrible German or English to them and they won't recognise it and will guess from context which language to speak).

They speak both languages as natives, that is utterly separate to being able to simultaneously translate. They've grown up with both languages from the day they were born, and when very small couldn't even tell you which language was which, they just understand and use the language automatically.

Very few people can truly simultaneously translate, even those who have grown up with two languages. It requires a certain type of memory, and exactly the same vocabulary in both languages (i.e. not an association of one language with one topic, which happens if you go to a monolingual school and your exposure to your other language/ s is domestic or social).

Many people who have grown up speaking multiple languages mix them in conversation with their family and anyone else who has also grown up with the same language mix, because one language will lend itself better to one topic than another. If you've only learnt maths in Polish it will be hard to explain it in English, no matter how well you can discuss literature and music, say, in English.

A lot of people who have grown up genuinely bilingual don't translate. That is a key - if both languages are native to you, you never naturally translate between them. Only learners of a language do that generally.

Don't go, but you'll be single again if you don't.

You were unreasonable.

Coffee what isn't a big deal? Translating, or getting a chance to speak your native language?

For most people whose lives are lived in a language learned as adults (or learned at school) the chance to speak your native language is like being able to take off your shoes or bra or some other item of clothing you hadn't noticed was uncomfortable til you removed it. I absolutely know this is not "just me" because all the Russians and Croatians and Poles and Hungarians I know hear say the same. Perhaps they don't say it to monolinguals who've never spent an extended time trying to operate in another language though.

If you've grown up bilingual this seems to be different - my kids tell me they don't even notice which language they are speaking most of the time. Both are comfortable. The only exception is if its a topic which they strongly associate with one language (school work is easier to discuss in German - DD is learning French at school, so I have to test her on her French vocab using German, as she has learnt French via German not via English. This is especially true when they've learnt set phrases not just words. Its also hard to help DD with her maths homework using English because she generally needs to learn new English vocabulary to discuss angles or algebra, adding stress if she's already struggling with the actual subject content).

If you never usually get to speak your native language day to day, it is pretty shitty of someone who is supposed to love you, and who has the luxury of using their own native language 100% of the time, to demand you refrain from enjoying that comfortable restful opportunity briefly when old friends and family visit for a few days.

*here

I want to agree with all those who said you are unreasonable to expect his family to speak English with each other. It's just like a PP said, relaxing for them.

I lived in Germany for 4 years, speaking German all the time so I know. I had a discussion about this yesterday with my monolingual DC (who learnt GCSE French/Spanish) and they agreed with you, OP.

I would urge you to learn Polish asap, and learn it properly at the beginning at least, with structured lessons and a tutor.

If you were to - hypothetically - spend 20 h a week on learning the language - you can get from A0 to C1 in about a year.
(That's the time frame language schools for adults refer to.)
You had 6 years!

It seems - to me and probably to his family - that you are not really interested in your DP's history, roots, family or culture.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to speak Polish in front of you all the time. I get that they will have times of conversation with him in Polish, but there should also be time when they speak English because you're there. ESPECIALLY in YOUR home. It's just bloody manners, and I say this as someone from a foreign background who would have to be reminded to speak in English when my DP/DH was there. BUT, he also gave us time to just natter in our own language as well, by making sure we had time together, particularly the siblings.

You know this is never going to get better, don't you? He's never going to put you before his family. He's never going to be considerate towards you. YOU will be expected to slot into his family in the way that suits him, not you.

I don't agree that they should be allowed to speak Polish in front of you all the time

You think people need to be given permission to speak their own language to their own relatives?

OvertheHedge in her opening post the original poster tiar says doesn't want her boyfriend to speak Polish at all if she is in the room.

She says they have been lovely to her and do make the effort to speak English - this isn't enough for her though. She doesn't want them speaking Polish at all when she is in the room. Given she and her boyfriend live together that is presumably going to mean they effectively can't speak Polish at all.

Using English sometimes to include the OP but having plenty of time to have extended conversations in Polish (not limited to a snatched minute here and there when the OP leaves the room...) sounds normal. It sounds as though that was indeed what was happening, and what tiar is not happy with. She wants the conversation to be in English whenever she is in the same room.