Were we ever really friends?

[winsomebutlosemost]

I wanted some harsh, unchecked opinions and thought this was the right place to get those.

I have a male friend, who I had a brief relationship with a few years ago. He didn't behave too well at the time and I ended it. He never seemed to be happy about me ending it (was always chasing, trying to get me to go out with him again) but he didn't actually seem to want a relationship with me, I think he just wanted sex, so I rejected his offers.

He persisted for a long time with the chase and we went out to dinner again a few times and I let him know if he wanted a relationship with me it had to be above board. Proper dating, no casual sex or in betweens and he basically wasn't up for that. As to why he didn't want a relationship with me, I don't know. He said he was very attracted to me physically and he said he loved being with me and thought I was great. He just didn't see us as right for each other. For whatever reason, I was not girlfriend material.

So I said if that was how he felt, I didn't want to continue dating at all. Over the course of a couple of years though, at his instigation, we ended up becoming friends. He was an awful boyfriend, but he was a great friend and I really enjoyed the friendship and he put a lot into it. The only spanner in the works was that he consistently tried to make a move on me sexually or trying to have physical contact which was beyond friends, which I had to keep telling him was off the table. We did spend a lot of time together though and spoke for a long time every day and I'd say we were probably closer to each other than to anyone.

Fast forward a little and he met someone he did see as girlfriend potential and started seeing her. I was hurt that he'd decided so quickly she was girlfriend potential, but I wanted him to be happy even if not with me and that was that.

After a few weeks seeing her though, she let him know that she wasn't happy with our friendship and she asked him to stop seeing me. She started to also say unkind things about me and because we tell each other everything he decided to pass this information on to me which really hurt me.

I ended our friendship because I felt that he had dropped me for someone he'd know for a few weeks and had created circumstances where we were pitted against each other instead of laying groundwork for us to both be part of his life. He denied this and said I was reacting too strongly and that she was threatened by me.

I am sitting there today really wondering if we were ever really friends. Do you think we were, or was he just using me the whole time? I feel a little bit down about it all and I don't think it's just rejection but also feeling like my best friend betrayed my trust and didn't respect me.

No. His idea of friendship was all about attention and flirting. Your idea of friendship was different and more real. You got on well, but he sounds far too shallow to be capable of being real friends with someone.

He's game playing now too, by telling you "what (his) gf said". A friend wouldn't do that, they would have told their gf they aren't giving up a friend and worked to resolve it/ agree boundaries.

I thought so too.

So OP, I agree with you. You can see clearly what he's doing. I would lay money on her "feeling threatened" by you, because he's made comments so she feels like that. Sometimes friendships come to the end of their course. It hurts to feel betrayed by a friend but I doubt he'll change. (You sound like you've already given him a number of second chances.) I think you're well rid.

No, you weren't friends. He only wants one type of relationship with you

It is very convenient that he tells you all the things his new gf 'said', it was a way of him breaking off a relationship with you without having the balls to do it himself. All the blame us on the new gf.

No. He's not your friend and never was. I'm sorry.

Thank you everyone I didn't think so but was second guessing myself

The only spanner in the works was that he consistently tried to make a move on me sexually or trying to have physical contact which was beyond friends...

This is definitely not what a genuine friend does.

crikey... your way better of without him lovely

That's why I thought he had feelings for me :( I processed in my head that if he felt both emotional connection and strong sexual attraction that this meant we were more than friends. So naive. I really thought he did and he was just worried about committing and it was a matter of time. Such a cliche, he then commits to someone else he'd just met. could slap myself for being such a dummy.

He probably did see you as a friend (even though his idea of friendship is not the same as yours) but mostly he just wanted to shag you. He sounds like he's ruled by his penis.

He is choosing new girlfriends side now, because she's his latest shag. She sounds like an unpleasant person, and he sounds weak and disloyal.

You are better off without him. (I would imagine if you offered to sleep with him now he would take you up on that offer, not that you would in a million years of course, but you are the better person here!)

He wanted an FWB. Now he's got a girlfriend, he's putting a spanner in the works.

There was no need for him to tell you what his GF said. That's, if she really said it. He sounds dire.

Can I be nasty and say I would want to hear his side of the story as well...

If he only wanted sex he would have moved on after you made it clear it wasn't happening. I have been in a similar situation as you before and being honest with you (and myself) did you not give him the signs that maybe something could have happened? Being friendly flirty with him so he might think he can get what the want from you ?! You sound really hurt by saying he decided about another girl that she was girlfriend material but you weren't... just let him go and maybe find yourself a man who is on the same page as you ?!

It's not nasty, I can understand it sounds strange to you, it was strange to me too and I'm sure it would be good to hear both sides on every thread but that's not possible.

For the first period of time, what he wanted was to date me and have sex with me at the same time as doing those things with other people. I wasn't teasing him or playing a game - I said "no" because I don't want a sexual relationship with someone who can't commit to it being just the two of us. At the time he told me he "needed" this because he couldn't get to attached emotionally too quickly :/ I told him that was ridiculous and he'd never have a relationship with any nice woman if he acted like that.

When he continued to try and date me, he still wanted to date me and have sex with me without any commitment and I continued to say "no" and he teetered on agreeing to my terms because I think he was very attracted to me but didn't want to date just one person. In the end, he wouldn't do it.

When he wanted to be friends, that developed very, very slowly. He wanted to be friends, not me. I think because he didn't have any (I have lots!). He was lonely. The only people he ever spent time with was women he was having sex with and I think he'd found something with me he didn't have with anyone. As we got closer, we talked every day and we did a lot of nice things together.

Over that period of time when we were very close, I became the only person he properly talked to. He doesn't have close relationships really with anybody. Not even a best friend. So I think he enjoyed the emotional intimacy but he also felt the strong physical attraction, so he was always trying to have sex with me or to cross the line in other ways. For example, he was always stroking my hair, holding my hand, making comments about how beautiful I was etc.

Over time, I really started to like him a lot. He was clever and really interesting and we had great conversations and we had so much fun when we did things together and I started to have feelings. I thought he returned them, because it felt like he did.

It wasn't just the physical contact that made it feel like he did, it was on multiple levels. The nature of what he wanted to do with me was romantic. For example, weekend trips away, candlelit dinner, walks on the beach at sunset, giving massages. These are inherently romantic things to do, and it was always one on one. He also prioritised me over everyone else he was dating (choosing me to spend special occasions with) and he valued my opinion over everyone else and he genuinely cared about me and my life and what was happening. He'd frequently help me with things, or be there for me or take care of me if I was sick. He opened up to me and he introduced me to his children and he generally acted like a person who cared a lot.

I wasn't playing games when he hit on me and I said "no". I was saying "no" because I wanted a relationship with him and if he wasn't offering that, then I knew I'd be badly hurt so I was trying to keep things platonic so my investment wasn't too high. I was as attracted to him as he was to me! To be honest what I believed was that he was scared and that over time we would end up together.

Everyone has said he wanted FWB but that wasn't what I thought at the time because FWB don't want to spend all their time with you or do romantic things or go away on weekend trips or surprise you with little presents. Friends don't really do that. He acted like he had feelings for me, I felt that was the case and was very surprised when he said he didn't. I think what he actually wanted was to feel like he had a girlfriend in all the ways that feels, while he waited for someone "better" to come along.

Of course that hurt me. He met this person and was instantly exclusive with her, something he'd been unprepared to give to me for three years. I'm only human, that was hurtful. He even credited me for it, telling me that me coaching him had really helped him to change :O Despite being hurt, what I thought thought was that our friendship was important to him regardless, and that he'd never drop me for someone else.

Of course I will let him go and find someone on the same page as me but this only just happened so I'm going to lick my wounds.

If he only wanted sex he would have moved on after you made it clear it wasn't happening.

Oh yes, because men always just take ‘no’ and move on with no pressure, harassment, pushing of boundaries...

I didn't play at it. I said to him that I felt the attraction to, but if he wanted more than friendship then it would have to be dating, like people do. I wasn't asking for a commitment from him, but if he wanted sex from me I wanted it to be exclusive and for us to have a mutual interest in exploring the growth of a relationship.

His perspective was more that he'd already decided he saw no possibility of wanting to grow a relationship, but he really liked me and wanted to be good friends. which is fine, but then if that's the case you don;t keep trying to shag the person, do you?

No wonder I was so blinking confused, I think he's just selfish.

You seem like a lovely caring person He comes across as a bit sleazy to be honest.

You were waiting for him to realise you were the one. Sadly, he told you that you weren't the one from the start & continued to.

He is inherently self serving and I doubt he'll change. Once you lick your wounds please give your time, funny company to your other friends and look for a man that appreciates you, who sees you as potentially the one. It'll feel so much easier , no insecurities nor doubt and someone who wants an equal partnership.

I can't see how this could ever have worked out for you with him. I also suspect he'll continue to be shady with his new gf, but plesse give it no thought as it's nyp now. (Indications are he may already be manipulating her, lucky escape for you as he's no longer taking up all your time!! Don't be the person he tells all his secrets or relationship difficulties to, don't prop him up).

You must be wraught out after this. But do trust in that now you have more emotional energy not being sapped by him, you'll find some else far nicer and more decent.

Maybe I was waiting for that but it's a complex situation as how I felt and what I wanted changed so much over time.

At first I honestly just wanted to date a normal guy and go for a few dinners, maybe have some sex and see what happens. I knew I didn't want to have non-exclusive sex because I find it a bit sleazy and I don't think I could enjoy sex and dating if I didn't know who he'd be with tomorrow.

When he was chasing me for the best part of a year, I wasn't really interested. He's not very good looking, and I thought he was a bit weird actually.

After we became friends, I realised on the days we were together I was happy and I got to know him really well and all the things I liked, then my attraction grew. Even then, all I really wanted was for him to either (a) date me (b) be my friend and nothing in between. He wanted to date me, but refused to do it exclusively so we were at an impasse and so we said "friends".

I did develop very strong attraction to him as emotions took hold, and I was mostly puzzled over why he didn't see me as a potential girlfriend. If physical and mental attraction were there and we ticked all the obvious boxes like age, education blah blah, I did start to wonder WTF it was about me that was so undateable!

He didn't help me with that confusion because his behavior made no sense.

I do have lots of people who don't want to be my boyfriend, but then they don't normally want to stroke my hair or send me goodnight texts or walk in the moonlight holding hands or kiss me at midnight on new year! His actions didn't seem to correlate with words, and when we discussed that, he blurred the lines by saying that maybe the best relationships grew from friendships (???!!!)

I completely believed that he was just not good at relationships as he hadn't had one for seven years, he'd only had casual sexual liaisons, so I didn't take it very personally. When he announced he was seeing someone properly, of course, I took it much more personally.

As to whether or not there was something special about her, no, it wasn't that. He decided he was going to date her properly before he met her. He announced in the car when we were driving that he'd decided I was right and he should change his ways to try and create a real relationship, that he was going to only date one woman at a time and give each one a proper chance.

A week later he met her, did exactly that and ended up in a relationship. I don't think it was her who came along and changed him, he just decided to change and he did!

I agree it could never have worked out. We called ourselves friends, but really aside from the sex missing we were basically boyfriend and girlfriend and that wouldn't have been fair on her for us to be so close. I thought we were going to end up together is the truth.

I think I just always thought that even if we didn't end up together, even if he chose to respect someone else in the way he never had with me, at least I was his friend and that was okay. I think all this just made me feel like nothing. Like something to pass the time with!!!

Thank you though to everyone, I will go forth and focus on people who like me back and aren't such sleazebags. Looking back, it really does make me angry that he kept saying he saw us as just friends and then constantly acting the opposite. I was stupid, but my heart was in the right place.

He just wasn’t into you I’m afraid.
He liked you and found you sexually attractive enough but unforunately something was missing.
Lessons learnt, men are pretty straight forward and they’ll jump through hoops if they like someone.

Actually, thinking back when he first met her and I asked about her, he'd said he was going to try behaving himself and spend some quality time with her and get to know her and not sleep with anyone else. the entire time I'd know him he'd basically be dating 3 - 4 women at the same time and he'd never spend more than one night a fortnight with any of them so he never got that close to anyone (except me). He demoted every woman to FWB within about 3 dates and then moaned that he couldn't find love.

He said he'd changed his ways, then he met her a few days after this announcement. He described her as not that pretty, not that clever and made a few comments about how she muddled things, not someone he saw long term potential, negative comments about her family and background, told me she was dirty in bed and called her a bit odd. He said his therapist had told him not to date her because he should only date people he was more strongly attracted to but he'd said he was going to stick with it. Then he spent about three weeks spending time with her like a normal person without shagging anyone else, and this is when he came out with the bit about her not wanting him to see me anymore and her saying nasty things about me.

It was all just a bit weird, and I think he knows it too. I have no idea why he was trying to play us off against each other, as you've all said if he really did intend to have me as a friend + another woman as his girlfriend and he valued out friendship then he'd have been respectful about both of us to the other one. I have dated a few people in the time we've been friends and it's never been an issue!

The more I think about it, he's just got no relationship skills at all. She is probably a really nice woman and he's said things to make her feel insecure. I think he does really like her now though, but it's funny how you can actually grow those feelings if you respect women and treat them nicely. You're hardly going to find love if every time you go on a date you have one with someone else 2 days later!

I agree he wasn't that into me.

That doesn't mean he couldn't have been a good friend to me though, if that was what he wanted - which is what he said he wanted.

My post wasn't really about him not choosing me, it was about him saying "I want to be just friends", then messing me about and ultimately dropping me for someone he'd met a few weeks ago.

I was trying to establish if I was right to walk away from the "friendship" and to feel like it wasn't as real as I thought. Everyone has really just given me a bit of validation that maybe his motives here weren't genuine friendship.

I don’t think all men are straightforward, to be fair. Maybe many, or most, but not all.

Some are a little confused, messed up, not great at relationships, or have some other issue, which is not necessarily apparent to every woman who comes into their orbit.

Note, it is absolutely not our job to try and sort them out: and a great deal of hurt can come our way if we try.

But the world is not neatly divided into men as friends and men as romantic partners. And it’s easy to get drawn into a confusing mess in some instances, with some men.

You’ve become a bit too close for comfort with this friend, so breaking up is going to hurt. More so I think, because it’s not been a traditional, ordinary romantic relationship that others can identify with: so you might be processing that pain and confusion mostly on your own.

My word of warning: don’t inadvertently become reserve girlfriend, or any form of safety net for him. It will be hard but you need to step away from him very decisively. The temptation to act as confidante might be stronger than you think.

nah. he just fancied you.

No, he wasn’t your friend. Not good choices to have spent so much time with him.

I wouldn’t envy the women he dates: he’s no catch.

Thank you.

I do think what he wanted was for me to be reserve girlfriend / safety net so when I broke off the friendship I explicitly said that there was no way I was going to be that. I also don't want to be the confidante. It's all just a new way for him to use me.

I told him I don't want to speak anymore at all and not to contact me again. If he breaks up with her, he will need another cushion to fall on.

I do feel better now for chatting, thank you for letting me get it off my chest. I don't think it's as cut and dried as me having feelings for a friend who didn't return them, I think it's more about me agreeing to be just friends with someone I felt more for and him confusing my feelings by constantly trying to have sex with me or kiss me. then putting our friendship on the line by creating conflict with his new GF.

I don't think I could have won here.

He didn't want me to be his GF but he didn't really want to be just friends either. He wanted girlfriend benefits between real girlfriends, which is a horrible position to put someone in and not the way you'd act if you were capable of properly caring how other people felt.