When you just feel like leaving

[ThisIsTheFirstStep]

Been married 8 years, 2 kids. He’s Korean, I’m British, we live in Korea.

From day one, we’ve had issues with him not being very proactive - happy to go along with my plans, follow my house cleaning schedule, financial plan etc, not so good at ever ever EVER implementing or suggesting anything.

He also keeps his emotions and worries and thoughts inside 99% of the time - I used to think he was just a very happy go lucky person (and he is mostly) but recently found out he’s been worried about work stuff but didn’t tell me - he may have to take a pay cut. He didn’t tell me and if he had, I could have taken on more hours and given up an expensive hobby. He didn’t so now we will have way less money if he does end up getting his pay cut.

He is, in most ways, a great partner. He takes care of the kids, does everything around the house, deals with all the bank/immigration/bills etc, takes time off work when needed etc.

But he is sooo wishy washy sometimes and sooo shit at talking about anything that matters.

I miss the UK so much and today I just feel like taking the kids and leaving.

Bumping in case anyone has some advice.

We can’t afford therapy, it’s like $150 per time here at least

It sounds like you are lonely. Any friends out there to confide in? Must be very frustrating. What happens if you say you need to talk and there needs to be changes

I would say, no marriages are perfect. Most people probably think about leaving their partners after several years of marriage, especially when things get tough with kids or finances etc. However, marriages are supposed to be through think and thin, for better or worse. It sounds like your husband is a good father. Perhaps he needs to work on things, but the things you mention are not grounds for divorce. I can understand you missing home. Have you talked to him about perhaps moving to the UK? Could he work there? Marriages are about partnerships. If one is not happy in one location, the other should be thinking of compromise. For example, sometimes when I get thoughts of moving somewhere else, my husband will also think about it with me. I know if I pushed it, he would be willing to move within reason. He would obviously have to be able to get a job where we move and it would have to make sense. But my thoughts about moving are not strong enough. We are pretty happy where we live, its just the constant rain that drives me nuts. Once summer hits and we get sunshine, I am happy again.

Also, usually the planning things are what women do. Most men are not planners. At least not the ones I know. They leave it up to the women. I am in charge of the weekly plan of what to eat, kids activities, what we do socially etc. He is only in charge of himself lol. Like his own personal plans. But any couple plans or family stuff its me.

sally I have friends here but somehow I find it hard to talk to them about this. Maybe we’re not close enough.

mama we’ll move to the UK eventually but not now. I would say me feeling constantly snowed under and responsible for everything is grounds for divorce tbh. I can’t keep being the only one to think about things. It is relentless.

mama if that works for you, great. It doesn’t work for me and I am not interested in excusing him because he’s a man. He can plan stuff at work just fine so I can’t see how at home he becomes a useless baby.

sally when we talk, he promises to change, hoovers once or twice and then back to the same.

Send him this: www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Hi ThisIs - I'm next door in Japan, I know that when things are tough, home feels very far away

But maybe if he is shit at talking, you could write him a letter telling him how you feel.
I have done this before with my Japanese DH - we sometimes communicate via texting when we have a problem, just to get thoughts in order.

Hope you can find a way to let him know how you feel.

When were you aiming to go back to the UK? If you know that its just a couple more years, maybe that will help to plan what you need him to do in the meantime.

tante

Thanks for your help, it is hard, right?

It might be three to five years until we move back, which seems really far away for now.

Writing a letter could help but I feel like he just doesn’t understand what running a house takes (typical situation of him living with his parents til we got married).

iwas I have seen that but I always felt like it didn’t apply to us somehow. Only just beginning to face the reality that he is the same as every other man on the planet.

To his credit, it sounds like he does want to try. That’s much more than you would get from a lot of men. Well, women sometimes too I think. If you’re not in the driving role of taking care of the house I think you just really cannot understand how much work it is. Endless, often incredibly dull, sometimes very challenging. They just don’t know.

I think you should try talk yet again. I was the same with my DP until we had a huge argument about it a few months ago. It wasn’t the first discussion/attempt on his part, but it was the most serious and he really got it this time. He’s been amazing ever since.

If you have a partner who is on your side and really wants to work at things that’s gold. It’s hard to see sometimes (and always come on MN to vent), but ultimately it’s a good thing worth working at.

I know that he’s 100 times better than most men, definitely.

But then I think like why am I settling for ‘better than most’?

I was so perfectly happy being single. I really did not care if I got married or had kids. And now I’m questioning whether I could be happier without him.

I’m just tired of the endless mess and not knowing stuff about our finances and wondering why I’m the one who has to pick up the slack all the time. Why I’m the one who has to think all the time.

I’m too exhausted to do the things I want to do in life.

Could you go away for a week and leave him in charge of the kids and home?

It sounds like he either doesn't want to worry you about finances etc or think that it's his job as a man to worry about that. Sit him down and explain that you're a partnership and although biologically you've given birth and he's taken on the main breadwinner role for the moment, it doesn't mean that the other isn't the other's responsibility and should be left in the dark. Drive home to him that unless your marriage isn't a partnership then you're seriously considering leaving.

How old are your children? Having small children is so, so hard sometimes.

OP - I remember your earlier post about books on culture differences...
I think - by the sound of it - there are a few things at play here.

Cross cultural differences are certainly a part of it. But - and I think it’s also a big part is that you are lonely and far away from home. And you miss that - family, friends, culture familiarity. It’s like a gaping hole in your life - and you then look at your marriage and expect it to fulfill all your happiness needs.
And it can’t really. It’s way, way too much pressure to put on any relationship.

Another point I wanted to make - whenever a post say - ‘it’s always been a problem since we met/married that he....’ - it reminds me of a cliche -
Women marry expecting their men to change, while men expect their women not to change -

On that specific issues - of planning everything - I think you are describing what women refer to as ‘mental load’ (or smth like this) - and it’s an issue everywhere.
Therapy won’t help with it. One way to deal with it - is to agree and split some responsibilities - and let him get on with his share - in the way he can. Even if it’s not done as quickly and efficiently as what you’d have done.

But, I have a suspicion - that even if he changed practicalities - you’d still be unhappy.
I think for you, being disconnected and far away from home is the main issue.

Sorry.

cricrichan I've thought about trying that but finances won't allow it atm. I know he'd probably just leave everything a mess, feed the kids whatever shite was lying around and then clean up at the last minute.

It's more like...he won't think that the dog needs to be brushed every day, so if I don't do it, it ends up with matts. He doesn't think about the kids needing to eat healthy food. He doesn't think that the bed sheets need to be changed, he would never ever think of it, and he would never think to clean the bathroom. I'm not any kind of domestic goddess but I prefer not to live in actual filth.

He's not even the main breadwinner at the moment, I earn more than he does and have the potential to earn more, if I worked more hours.

iwas The kids are 3 and 5 but to be honest, I've had very few problems with them. We get a LOT of help from his parents, we live really close to them and they spend a lot of time with them. Obviously there are times when it's hard, but since I feel like there are four of us raising them, it's one of the easier areas of my life right now.

MMmomDD

I really don't expect him to fill every need. I've lived abroad for a long time, in various countries, for most of my adult life, so I am pretty used to being on my own in a foreign country. I have friends here (albeit not that close), my kids, hobbies, I learn Korean, a job that I don't love but which I enjoy, I spend a lot of time doing stuff with my dog - training him, doing classes and so on. I do things outside our relationship. It's not to do with expecting him to fulfill every aspect of my life.

I don't know why you're making these assumptions.

I don't love living in Korea, that much is true. Life can be really boring here, it is hard to make friends since most expats stay for only a few years and it is notoriously hard to befriend Koreans in any meaningful way. But I have tried hard to make my own life here so that we both have space.

I don't expect him to change, as in change his personality. I expect him to understand that running a house is not a one-person job. I just want to feel like, if I'm sick for a few days, the entire house won't collapse around our ears. He goes away on business for a week and everything is how he left it. I went away with friends for a weekend and the house was in chaos, no clean clothes for Monday morning, no dishes done, kids had eaten total shite all weekend. It's just depressing.

I get what you're saying and so many manchildren are like that. They're actually just as capable as we are but choose not to or think it's not their job.

However, he seems willing to try so I think you have to build up to him taking certain responsibilities as his. I have 4 kids which I manage single handedly no problem. But if I'd been expected to manage like I do now pre kids it would have ended up in chaos. I remember coping less well with just one baby than I did when I had 4 because I learned skills and tricks along the way, prioritising etc.

Would you even be allowed to take the children to the UK? Would he accept it? Would you want your children to be in a different country to their father?

OP - what I meant - reading from your post it’s clear you are unhappy on some deeper level.
And practicalities that you mention - house, kids food - are something easy to pinpoint and blame for your unhappiness. But they are unlikely to be the cause.
And your H - irrespective of how much he does around the house - can’t change how you feel about Korea or your life at the moment.

You also sound like a strong person, who likes things to be just so, and mostly your way. Nothing wrong with that. However - it would (and does) lead to frustrations when you are with people who are different from you. And your H sounds like that sort of person.

You’d say - but is that unreasonable of me to expect this or that....
Not unreasonable, sure. However - one also needs to realise that a lot of these things are your subjective standards and not an objective demand.

I have a friend - she is all about ‘totally from scratch organic everything’.... Spends hours making broths, spiralling veggies, etc.
By her standards - my kids eat unhealthily. By mine - totally fine.
If we were married - we’d clash all the time.

Anyhow. Practical things are easy to fix. If they are really what is making you unhappy - then getting a cleaner might be a solution.

cri I feel like it's just been endless since we got married. I have asked him 1000 times to take more responsibility, to talk to me, to do stuff without being asked, but it never changes for more than a few days.

I doubt I could take the kids and go, no. I'm getting so stressed out that I'm semi-thinking of just leaving them here for the summer and going though.

mm I don't know why but it feels like you are misconstruing what I'm saying. The problem is what he does around the house, the fact I do everything for the kids and dog, the fact that I'm the one who has to do Christmas and birthdays and all the Korean celebrations too - this year, I just couldn't be arsed with Christmas, so it didn't even happen, I have to sort all the holidays.

My 'standards' are not exactly subjective. I don't want a mouldy, piss-stained bathroom. I want there to be clean clothes. I want to occasionally be able to sit down for 10 minutes without someone asking me where this or that is, or wondering why there's no dinner. I want to feel like I can go out to meet friends and not come back to my kids having eaten McDonalds for the 3rd night in a row.

The solution is not a cleaner, because it's not about cleanliness, it's about taking the iniative to actually clean things. A cleaner is not going to feed my kids, take my dog for a walk, cook dinner and sort out the finances.

Please stop looking for problems I haven't written about in my post. I want him to step up. I want him to put the washing machine on occasionally or clean the bathroom or change the sheets. It has nothing to do with any 'deeper unhappiness'. I just want to have an equal partnership, not one where, half the time, I feel like I have three children, not two.

OP - why I think that there is a deeper unhappiness - because you come out sounding this way.

You insist on wanting your H to change, to want to be up to your requirements - even though you know he never will. And that will continue to make you unhappy. Untill something gives.
It’s almost like you need an excuse to snap.
And saying that you are thinking of leaving them for the summer on their own - this is sounding like you are close.

You also don’t seem to want to resolve the practical issues that can be resolved :
Of course the cleaner/housekeeper CAN be on top of the mess, cook and feed your kids healthy food, walk your dog.

But - it’s almost like you need to have your H prove something (his love?) to you by WANTING to change to be like you. And to deliver to your standards.

You are in a difficult place. Sorry.

mm you're looking too far into this.

We can't afford a cleaner or housekeeper or anything else so it's besides the point.

I don't want him to be like me. I want him to step up and take responsibility. I don't think that that is something unreasonable.

I don't want to keep replying to your posts because you aren't really helping. Sorry.

it’s almost like you need to have your H prove something (his love?) to you by WANTING to change to be like you.

Seriously? To be like her? People generally don’t take on 99% of household work because they want to. She does it because she has to. Wanting her partner to be responsible is not indicative of some failing on her part.

iwas thank you for understanding. I am in tears tonight. I feel so lost. It seems like a small thing, like something almost all women suffer, but I used to love him so much and now I feel that wavering.

It's so hard. I am tired of asking him to do things. I am tired of feeling like I am being a nagging wife (which he never says or indicates, I don't think he feels like that, but I feel like that.)

I just don't know what to do at all right now.