My mother will not ALLOW me to be hurt (by her)

[loveWhodunnits]

How can I smooth this over without colluding with her script?

We're not really speaking at the moment, this is because she did something really hurtful. I was hurt and I let her know. She ignored me for a month then came back in a text to defend herself and tell her she was angry with me for not being happy for her. I said, well I'm not apologising for being hurt. If you're angry with me for being hurt that takes the biscuit.

In the past i've always been the one to smooth things over. I go in with ''look I really appreciate all you do for me'' but this time I'm thinking, the only emotion or reaction I'm allowed to feel is gratitude.

I don't want to go NC with her! I just want to be allowed to have a reaction, allowed to have an emotional response and I don't want to have to apologise for that.

There is a back story but she doesn't know the back story if you see what I mean. My entire childhood she got mad at me if I expressed a need or tried to stand up for myself (occasionally). Her memory of me is of an awkward disobedient child. She sees herself as having been a perfect parent. I ended up in an abusive relationship. I left it with parents' help but now I feel so sick of the fake relationship we have. I was saying to my daughter that my mother has no curiosity to find out how people really feel. She tells them. My dd said she does it to her too!

This sounds like your maternal grandmother or caregiver was frightened of emotions too. it's soo difficult to change this vicious cycle. If she's unaware of her lack of empathy. There is a thread on here about parents who are emotionally abusive it's called The Stately Homes thread See if you can find it, it may help.

In answer to your initial question you cannot and you should not. Remain not speaking to her. She also gave you the usual non apology such people give too.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up (a gross understatement) and now unsurprisingly she is not a good grandmother figure to her child. Toxic people more often than not become toxic as grandparent figures too. Disordered of thinking people like your mother never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

It is no coincidence either that you ended up in an abusive relationship yourself; your parents primed you to accept that role.

You can only help your own self and you have a choice not to continue grabbing the rope your mother holds out to you.

Thank you Atillathemeercat. I will only go back to normal (our fake normal) if my mother acknowledges that my response to her doing the VERY thing I asked her not to do, and doing it publicly, was hurtful.

Wrt the abusive relationship, my mum has been good at handling him since I left him, so for a long time I still needed her which was so conflicting when we argued. The rest of the time it was fine. Now that the children are older I feel like she will accuse me of using her in the past when I bit back down my suffocation that she wouldn't let me feel anything. And maybe that's true, I don't need her as much now so I feel freer to hold strong.

My mother often says about my x ''how on earth did you end up with XXXXX?"
She has not made the connection!!

I had psychotherapy after leaving my x and it helped a lot (but annoyed my mum). My Mum tried to ask what I discussed and rolled her eyes when I wouldn't go there.

It is hard to explain but we get on reasonably well except that imo our relationship isn't very REAL. eg, one tiny example amongst millions, I was going out with a man just over a year ago and when he ended it she kept telling me why he ended it. I had just been dumped and I couldn't tell her how I felt because she told me how I felt. She told me I was better off. THE END. And she knew how he felt too!!! He apparently couldn't cope with me having needed a small procedure. Which wasn't true at all . So on a very fake level we 'get on'. But if you try to explain this to her she will tell me I am doing the same to her now.

It's going to be such a shock to her when I don't go back to normal.

ppeafruit, it's so true, she is unaware, and that's why it'd be way too harsh to go NC. She HAS been helpful to me, and generous and I AM grateful for her help (financial, and protection from my x).

I know it would anger her if I said to her that I forgive her for her shit parenting of me, but as an adult, when I spot the behaviour that led me in to abusive relationships, I find it very hard. The past is the past. It's done. I have got over the damage and repaired myself.

The stately homes thread is brilliant but I don't feel my mum is as bad as those other parents. I have lurked on that thread over the years and it's amazing. Such wisdom on it.

Oh my god, I could have written this.

You have been living a lie in order for her to feel comfortable, her emotions took precedent. She tells other people what they think and feel because she has no emotional intelligence or understanding of others. She is imposing her delusional and dysfunctional concept of others upon them and that is why it always feels shallow and fake.

But as others have said she is unaware of her lack of empathy and instead gets angry if you don't comply. She is constantly creating an image of the world which she wants you to buy into. If you shatter the illusion by refusing to cooperate then the image is shattered and she feels very vulnerable and will usually start raging to compensate.

You must be true to yourself and acknowledge your own feelings for your own sanity.

random Is your mum the same, you've no right to feel anything, no right to react?

Obviously I'm allowed to be grateful (which I am) and positive, happy etc.

Moveablefeast, thank you that is very well put.
The first line especially really strikes a chord with me.

The irony is, I think she's a people pleaser too, except, she sort of uses me as a tool to please others. I was contrasting the way she treated me and my brother recently and I have gone to church for decades (to please her) and I have been polite and made conversation and listened to her friends and been interested in and made an effort with all of the relatives on both sides (thank you cards and texts on birthdays and so on) and my brother has never made any effort per se. If they like him they like him if they don't they don't. He would shrug. But now she will accommodate him in a very flattering way and use me in a way that he would never fall in to step with.

My dad will side with her and the two of them will announce to me (soon, I'm waiting for it) that they are a unit (I'm single) so often, when I've tried to catch a breath from feeling like her reality doesn't match mine, my dad will unite forces with her and tell me that they are a UNIT. So that's great that they have a good marriage but I don't like it that they use that in that context. I think, if I was attacking on of them, it might be appropriate to come back at me with the ''we're a unit'' stuff. but when I'm just trying to be allowed to feel angry or hurt. ......... it feels like abuse to be honest.

Moveablefeast, the second paragraph of your post is so true as well. She just makes up her mind about how things are. She's no curiosity to find out if that's the case.

"The stately homes thread is brilliant but I don't feel my mum is as bad as those other parents"

Oh but she is. A lot of people who post there initially also write very similar to your comment above. You have certainly not treated your DD in the ways your mother has treated you have you?. There's reason for that; unlike her you have both empathy and insight. You are not a narcissist.

I also think you are allowed to be grateful but only on her terms and this is because you being happy looks good on her.

And what Movablefeast wrote as well.

The bottom line is, whether or not a Narcissist is aware his/her behavior is wrong is really irrelevant. The question you should be asking yourself is, ‘Why am I still involved with a person who displays Narcissistic behavior? What am I getting out of this?’
It’s as if we are looking for a reason to continue to be invested. When you’re involved with a Narcissist you have likely become an expert at minimizing and rationalizing their bad behaviour. And if somehow we can excuse his/her behaviour and say that he just didn’t know better, then we can continue to justify engaging with them.

There is no court on this planet that accepts Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Anti-Social Personality Disorder as a defense, so neither should you. “Sorry your honour, I killed those people, but I have a personality disorder, so it wasn’t my fault,” that just doesn’t float. We are all responsible for and need to be accountable for our actions, regardless of our impulses, or drives.

The only questions you should be asking are – Is this relationship good for me? Does this person add value to my life? Does he make me happy? Am I consistently being treated in a loving, respectful manner?

If the answer is no then, ‘What the hell am I still doing in this relationship?’ And, ‘Where’s the door?’ – are the only questions you should be asking. Stop looking for reasons to justify his/her behaviour. Take the focus off of him/her and put it where it always should be on – you!

She gets angry when you have negative emotions because she doesn't know who she is and has a very fragile self-image. Therefore she wants you to reflect back at her comforting, reassuring and flattering behaviour. If you are sad, angry, depressed or ill because the world is all about her and maintaining her image she sees these emotions as a judgement and affront to her. The fear and shame those emotions trigger in her are unacceptable and so she will rage back or just refuse to acknowledge uncomfortable thoughts and emotions.

She cannot see you as separate from her, therefore your independent thoughts and emotions are a threat to her.

Oh. My. actual. God.

Are you me, OP?

The problem with going NC with a narc. DM is that you end up the bad guy to the rest of the world. The DM is too busy shouting Poor Me, Poor Me so that everyone else joins in and shouts Your poor mother. Why don’t you look after her more?

It’s no use explaining that DM treats her children differently to the rest of the world. Other people don’t see it.

OP,I have no advice but I give you lots of sympathy

I really feel for you here. But you know, you don't actually need her validation to feel hurt. You know how you feel, and that's separate from the crazy stuff she is doing. My mum is the same. After she treats me badly and I am hurt, I get six page letters explaining why it is my fault and asking me why am I full of hate. It is very confusing... it gives me a sense of vertigo.

That's very true moveable feast. Even though I'm in my 40s she sees me as an extension of her. ie, telling me how I feel. She has been sick recently and I know she'll be telling anybody who'll listen how spikey and sensitive and paranoid I am. I just have to write off my relatives' opinion of me. Whatever.

omg Scabbyhorse! a 6 page letter !!

Dottyblue

"It’s no use explaining that DM treats her children differently to the rest of the world. Other people don’t see it."

Funny you say that, because the thing that caused this, how I was treated and how my brother were treated were in sharp contrast, and it was done so PUBLICLY that's what was so humiliating. I am not angry with my brother over this but he thinks we had a great childhood. But he deals with her better. I remember once years ago somebody was offering him a drink (an alcoholic drink) and he would have been 18 or 19 so 'legal' and he pre-empted her saying 'no no no no he doesn't want a drink' by deadpanning ''mother. do I want a drink' and she laughed like she was caught out. He has always been better at keeping her at a distance.

I suppose one way of dealing with it is to just remember that she must have been badly treated as a child and she really can't help how she treats you. Especially as she doesn't have any self knowledge.

I have to remember that my exdil had a terrible parent, she can't help herself SHE has gone NC with me (I finally told her that she allows her feelings to get in the way of reality) which suits me except that our 11 year old GD spends most of her time with her which is not good.

Yes, I want to say to her that I forgive her for the parenting that damaged me as she was one of a million kids and not the cleverest or the prettiest or the loudest or the youngest or the eldest and she got lost in the tribe no doubt. And I know firsthand that parenting is hard. But roll on a hundred years and I'm an adult and I know she wouldn't treat her friends like this!

No because she doesn't see you as a separate person objectively like a friend , she sees you subjectively as HERSELF (and she hates herself).

I think that's one of the reasons why marriages and relationships break down.Many, sadly most, small children are bullied and controlled in the same way as their parents were and the cycle is almost impossible to break. (you just have to read some of the posters on MN who think it's FUNNY to laugh at, manipulate and be personal about their children).

Very Wise. I think she feels her life has been a bit small, simple, limited..... She would never risk letting herself thinking that though. It's buried.

Thank God for MN, I know I would have a tendency to parent in the same brisk way that Donald Winnicott identified but I try to ask my kids what they think and how they feel. I'm no perfect parent though. :-/

the same way that donald winnicott identified as very damaging that is.

Waiting for her to be someone she isn’t and doesn’t want to be, helps you how?

Yes it's great that you are asking them those things lovewho No one is a perfect anything. We've all got regrets about certain things we did when stressed or tired with our children. I reckon if they can see that we have TRIED our best to be understanding it's all we can do! (I'm definitely a parent who has tried to listen to my children , (they are adults now and they do appreciate me for that!) I didn't believe in letting them run riot though, I think THAT is seen as neglect by them. Which it is of course.

You're all so insightful and I'm relating so much to what you're saying. My own mother is incredibly difficult as regards me. My brother can do no wrong. However, I had a child very young (at 18) and the moment I saw my daughters scrunched up little face I vowed to break the cycle of abuse our family is caught in. Not for anything was my daughter going to suffer the way my mother had, my grandmother or myself. I've stuck to it, she's 24 now and without any of our horrible emotional difficulties. But of course my unwillingness to play the game has led to my mother punishing me in some frankly fucking awful ways. We have very minimum contact now, and I have virtually no relationship with my 3 siblings because like a few of you, I'm the scapegoat and they've concocted a reality of me (it's a straw man isn't it?) that bears no relation to I am in reality but is someone they can collectively dislike, disparage, judge and dislike. It's all become so entrenched that I doubt it will ever change now

MiddleAged It's brilliant that you have broken the cycle, the same as Love has, I admire you both soo much. it can't be easy. I just hope that my GD sees through her mother soon ( I know she does ) but in an odd way I suppose because she knows how vulnerable her mother is she propitiates her. It breaks my heart.

This is an interesting thread. I haven't seen anyone articulate before so clearly how people with emotional difficulties treat other people in a 'fictional' way. That's exactly what I experience with my sister and sometimes with my dad. I have tried to explain how it feels to other people in RL occasionally and they don't get it. It's like my sister has made up her own version of me and then gets affronted when I don't behave like her version does! Hope you can find some peace with all this OP, but 'when someone shows you who they are, believe them'.