Esther Rantzen: grandparents's rights

[aladyofindeterminateage]

Esther Rantzen is campaigning for grandparents to have legal rights to access to their grandchildren.
She maintains that there will be no problem with this because the family court will sort out any issues where these exist.
I am conflicted about this because I have read some horror stories on MN.
However I am not a grandparent.
I do feel uneasy though.

My MIL would love this but there is no way in the world I would let her have unregulated and regular contact with DD while is in the FOG of a severally abusive relationship.

Because it’s not always about actual grandparents but their partners. In this case an alcoholic abusive narc with a misogynistic streak a mile wide. Never on my watch will he get to interact with my daughter. Ever.

I said it wouldn’t happen either. It happened.

It’s an appalling idea. Thinking of my own middle class respectable Dm, who is no longer with us, she regarded seat belts as completely optional, driving home after a few sherries was ok, and allergies, autism, headaches or anything else that might inconvenience her, were attention-seeking affectation that needed nipping in the bud.
And I quite liked my mum, eventually. My ex-mil was worse, completely deranged and spiteful with it.
While I realise there are lots of lovely grandparents out there who are hugely supportive, I hope parliament has the sense to file this under “unworkable”.

God no.

I’m NC with my mother as she’s a toxic narc. If she’d been able to get access to dd it would have been another way of trying to control me and play stupid games.

I have the advantage zibbidoo that my DH is the one who has banned MILs husband from the house and wants nothing to do with him. I think he’d rather pluck out an eye than be in the room with the man ever again.

Which is why this idea of grandparents rights is so stupid. This guy has no convictions for DV so there is no way a court could know that he shouldn’t ever have contact with children.

Unfortunately I don't think we can rely on parliament to have much sense. The way things are going in England at the moment I despair.

In a court I’m afraid that would be no advantage. I completely disagree with it, but it does happen. My situation is proof of that.

Hopefully MPs are just debating it and it will disappear. Surely they are too busy with Brexit to bring this forward.
I will add it to my list of things to write to my MP about. I doubt the relatives would push for it in our case but the very thought of it makes us twitchy.

IMO the fact that Brexit is taking up so much time and attention is a reason to worry that some very alarming stuff might just get through.

Not sure what you are arguing zibbiboo. I agree that we would struggle to prove that MILs husband was a danger. Which is why I think the proposed changes are dangerous and stupid.

DH isn’t ever going to change his mind about the man who has repeatedly beaten his mother so I doubt we’d disagree if we got divorced.

Grandparents had their time as parents. Grandchildren are not a do over and are certainly not the property of their relatives, even their parents.

No surprise it's unpopular on here, as always the concensus is that grandparents are awful people who just want to grab your kids off you.

Of course there's a chance you will all be grandparents yourselves one day, let's hope none of you are ever in the position where for some random weird reason you are cut out of your GC's lives. It often happens after divorce (one parent gettting revenge on the other by not allowing their family to see the kids anymore). Or a controlling wife/ husband who doesn't let their partner take the kids to their parents. Or as pp said after the death of one of the parents. Sometimes it's a parent's mental health issue.

In these cases it's about protecting a child's right to see their family. The same as in access to a non resident parent - it's about the child. I don't get on with my in laws but would never deny them access to their grandson. If I felt that ds wasn't safe with them that would be a different matter, but there's always the option of supervised contact or a court decision that contact is not appropriate.

nanny I was responding to your “not on my watch”comment. I said the same, yet it happened. I’m just telling you that whether these chabges come in or not, it’s already happening.

I’m happily married, get on well with my in laws and we see them weekly.

The very first time they got me alone after the birth of my twins they started talking about their rights as grandparents to the children.

They got very short shrift.

I found that a very disturbing conversation given that they had absolutely no reason to imagine that they would ever be in a situation where they wouldn’t see their grandchildren.

It was a power play, pure and simple.

I have no doubt that if my DH and I split up that they’d be at their solicitor the very next day. Even though they’d still have no reason to think they wouldn’t see their grandchildren.

"Do grandparents have any responsibilities to a grandchild- financial/ caregiving etc. No, they don't.

So why in the name of fuck would they deserve rights?"

Agree with this.

Plus EVERY example I've known of where parents have stopped grandparents having access/unsupervised access to the grandchildren there's been a damn good reason for it! From bad mouthing the parent/s to being unsafe for medical reasons (theirs or their refusal to accept/take seriously allergies, disabilities etc) , to full on neglect and abuse.

My parents threatened this at one point. I assured them if they even ATTEMPTED it I would be fully informing the authorities of my abusive childhood and what my very genuine concerns were - no more was said or done.

It especially concerns me because at the moment emotional abuse, narcissism/toxic families are STILL not widely understood or recognised even among mh professionals - let alone the judiciary.

A mere glance at certain forums and a seemingly 'doting' grandparent as a thread goes on and they say more is almost always soon to be revealed as deeply toxic if not actively abusive. (They then tend to get challenged and flounce).

The cases I know in real life are usually due to toxicity, or non-publicised abuse.

I don't get on with my ex BUT my dd still stays in touch with her grandparents that side. They get on well. They are utterly ashamed of how their son has behaved, both by cheating in the first place and then worse by being a crap deadbeat dad. They have made an active effort to stay in dds life, not slagged me off (even when they've disagreed with decisions I've made) and not expected dd to forgive her father with no effort from him. As a result they get regular contact from her.

I'd love to know the other side of Jane's story cos I'd lay odds it's not a case of she's done NOTHING wrong. In addition that helpline is bound to be used more by exactly the kind of people who alienate others. If your family aren't speaking to you there's usually a reason.

I worked in elderly care for several years. On here and in real life you get people appalled that old peoples families don't care for them or visit them. What they're forgetting is that those people weren't always old or frail. I knew of several who had been absolutely horrific to their children and families but loves playing "poor frail old me" card.

"Esther Rantzen would not know what to do with herself if she didn’t have something to campaign about in public. She should shut up and keep well out of it. It’s none of her business." Exactly - I'm wondering if she's even bothered to properly check both sides in the examples she's using. She certainly has the means and journalistic contacts to do so but somehow I doubt it.

alady that is of course the flipside and worrying in many ways.

Missy stop with your 'You will be a grandparent' schtick. Not all of these situations are down to ILs and not all are grandparent related. Some people just aren't nice people.

I've always thought that if you divorced then that time with grandparents should be facilitated by the related parent?

With GP access, the poor kids are going to be pulled about everywhere

MrsSnooty yes relationship with grandparents following relationship breakdown SHOULD be sorted by their adult child.

Problems occur when that person doesn't continue to parent themselves. As in my case. Dds dad hasn't seen her in several years, makes no effort. It's been left to me to facilitate contact initially and then as dd has got older she's kept it up. But if they hadn't made the effort I wouldn't have either.

In so many cases the child losing contact with one parent means losing contact with the extended family too. BUT if the extended family take an interest and make the effort there's no need for the judiciary to get involved.

I've often also seen where during the immediate aftermath the extended family stoke the flames of already volatile situations and THEN complain they don't have a relationship with the grandchildren. What do they expect??

missy I hope to be a grandparent one day. I also hope to be a nice one and not a total arsehole.

No one deserves rights over a minor. Everyone has to fulfill their responsibilities to a minor and part of that is protecting them from abuse and keeping them safe.

I agree some people just aren't nice people Aornis and will stop Grandparents seeing the GC for no good reason. This law would be to protect children from having key members of their family that they love and have a good relationship with being ripped out of their lives on a petty whim.

Nanny you may well be a brilliant grandparent, dont assume that will always mean you have access to your GC. Its not just arsehole Grandparents that lose access.

And no I'm not a Grandparent yet, but at age 50 its not far off, so maybe I can relate a bit more to Grandparent's concerns.

I meant the grandparents or other relatives just aren't nice people. I'm equally sure there are not nice parents out there though and in turn maybe their children will be considering their position in time.

Yes missy but some deserving people not having contact is not a good enough reason to expose other children to potentially damaging and violent relationships.

What you are essentially asking for is to take duty away a parents discretion in blocking harmful people from their children’s lives.

And I am talking people with no convictions but who are known to be violent, manipulative abusers who just haven’t been properly caught yet.

So are you happy that this law would open up those kinds of relationships for some children beyond their parents control.

Because over my dead body is my daughter ever, ever, ever being forced to share a room, a day, a moment with my MILs husband. This law change could leave me no choice.

How can anything Esther Rantzen says re the 'best interests' of children ever be taken seriously - this is a woman who founded Childline, then chose to ignore 'rumours' about Jimmy Savile.

She makes me sick. I don't understand how she can still be seen as any kind of campaigner on behalf of children.

And ER aside - it's a ridiculous idea imo.

In France grandparents have rights if the GPs can show that they already have a relationship with kids. My exPIL have 30 days/year with my kids. They went to court and won. Admittedly I wasn't opposing it but their son was.

30 days a year Wally ? That’s a huge amount.

I’d find that hard to manage.