DP and low level anger. I'm so unhappy, how do I cope?

[d73H]

First off I have PND so reality is a bit skewed for me. I'm on Anti-Ds, which help, but I'm feeling increasingly like I can't get any better while he's carrying on like this.

DP is always so angry. It's not always overt, but it's as though it's his default emotion, I don't know how else to describe it. It's destroying me to be honest, I just don't know how to either ignore it, not care, or fix it (by making him see it's not OK and he needs to change, not by humouring him)

Now obviously I'm not perfect, and I'll readily admit that I bite back far too often and make it worse, but I've now got to the stage where I'm so frustrated my immediate reaction is along the lines of 'for fucks sake here we go again'

We have DD, 16months, and when he gets shouty and loud I hate that she's experiencing that environment. It's not always AT me, it could be him banging about in the kitchen and swearing because he can't find something, or if he's on the computer and it's not co-operating. Or ranting about other drivers / traffic. You get the idea, I hope. (again, I'm not perfect, we both swear too much casually, which I'm trying to stop in front of DD at the very least, but he does it with such venom. Often about some irrelevant nonsense. And then I'll be pissed off and I'll shout back. Especially when it's either AT me or loud PA bullshit about how theres 'never' x or 'always' y. IYSWIM.

It makes me so sad. That's the base line, he's making me sad. And we don't have sex, because I'm sad, and don't feel cared about. Which makes him sad, and feel unloved, so he gets teasy and touchy then it goes round in this horrific whirlpool of deepening sad/anger/alienation. I also have a birth injury that's still painful. So as my GP said, 'aversion therapy works', and sex isn't really on my 'to do list' any more. Sigh.

Where do I start with fixing this? One of us has to do SOMETHING or our family is going to rip apart at the seams and I desperately don't want that. He's not capable of making the first move I don't think, so it's down to me to start this off.

There's a lot more I could say, but this is already long enough. Don't want to drop feed but will elaborate if any one replies and more info becomes relevant.

Also, name changed. Regular poster, etc etc...

It sounds like a really toxic relationship
I think you shld consider leaving and not subjecting your daughter to this aggressive shouting man. If he doesn't even recognise he has a problem then he's not going to change.

It isn't up to you to fix him or put up with it but it is up to you to make sure your daughter doesn't grow up around him shouting at her mother.

Would he consider anger management and/or relationship counselling?

Sounds like my stbx - I put up with it for many years but it made me miserable.

I think in some way he is like this because it works for him. The only thing you can do is sit him down and tell him how he is making you feel. Maybe go away for a few days (to parents?) to impress upon him how serious you are.

Suggest anger management, marriage guidance ... anything, but don't just ignore it.

My df was like this. I loved him dearly but it made for a miserable childhood and turned me into a people pleaser at all costs.

Is it possible your DH also has some low level depression? My DH was like this when DS was a baby up to about 3 and I remember saying to myself 'If he is still like this when DS is 5, it's divorce'. It really was hell. Turns out he was depressed - so was I. Things very slowly turned round and we are a very happy family now. It was a seriously bad patch though, and at the time, I didn't know it would ever get better.

So what is the gp's plan re the birth injury, for starters?

Maybe part of him likes you biting back. How about getting up and leaving with Dd when this happens? Go for a walk, see a friend, or just play in another room. Warn him beforehand that you are just not going to tolerate your Dd living a life where people three times her size are aggressive around her and she puts up with it.

Can you avoid driving with him? Aggressive driving is a deal breaker for me, I won't put up with it, but it's pretty hard to get a driver to pull over and let you out once you've started a journey.

Firstly you cannot fix him or make him change . This relationship is not good for any of you .
I think your pnd may well improve without him at you all the time

Oh god. This is what I worried people would say.

I know I've painted a really negative picture here, because it's the negative stuff I need advice on, but he is really lovely too. (I know, I know, relationship bingo 'he's such a good father') He's generous and cares about people, he'll drop everything to go and help someone with anything. He works in a trade, so does professional standard help iyswim, usually for free or not much. He loves DD absolutely. In fact it's her that I hope will incentivise him to change.

I haven't got anyone to talk to. All our friends are mutual, even ones that didn't start out that way. He works with DF, just the two of them, so I don't feel I can talk to my parents. DF would lose the plot, there would be no coming back from that for DP and DF's relationship.

I have no idea how to go about getting counselling, or if it should be just me or both of us, or how to talk to him about it so he listens. Usually I only say something when he's already angry, because when he's not I want that to last as long as possible.

Fuck that sounds really healthy doesn't it?!

AJP I'm somewhat of a people pleaser too, I'm very conflict averse, but when I get pushed into a corner by him kicking off I lash out (verbally, neither of us gets physical, ever) to escape. Which makes me feel even worse.

He had a very Victorian father, who would be in his 90s now, and FIL was raised by his grandparents, so had very dated views on children even in the 70s/80s, never mind by today's standards. DP always says he doesn't want to be his father, but he's well on the way, and any mention of that makes him so upset that there's no talking to him.

I'm also pretty sure he's depressed. I've told him I think he needs to see a doctor, but I'm not sure what else I can do.

Make the appointment at his doctor's and go with him. You will be amazed how he minimises stuff, you need to be there. Tell him it's not negotiable if he wants to stay married. He also needs therapy imo. I'm just like my mum, it doesn't upset me too much to know that.

I don't know what to suggest but my father was and is like that and it was horrible to grow up with and still affects me now so don't ignore it.

You say he is in trades so I assume he is on building sites all day.

I sometimes have to remind DP that this is our home and not a building site. He is a bit shouty and loud sometimes. He has to be at work. We employ between 10 to 15 hairy arsed builders and if he didn't shout sometimes he wouldn't get heard.

He also suffers from anxiety a little. Rather than depression and this sometimes manifests itself as shouty. It's like all his emotions are exaggerated. When he gets like this I remind him twice this is our home not a building site. The 3rd time I ask him to stop shouting or go and shout elsewhere. As neither I nor the dcs want to listen to his mood.

If he is generally a good man then sot down when you are both calm and discuss it. Put a plan in place. My dp was genuinely upset he was upsetting me as he didn't realise he was so loud and angry. He actually said it was mild compared to being at work. I told him I didn't work on a building site and didnt want to hear it at home. And then he doesn't particularly swear or tell rude jokes at home when the dca are around ao it wasn't ok to shout and bang around either.

It's a stressful environment on building sites. It sometimes comes home with them like anyones elses work.

I would be making plans now to leave him. Am very sorry to write that but he is unlikely to want to seek any help for his myriad of issues and you can only help your own self ultimately. He is not for fixing; you cannot fix him and nor should you actually try. He does not want your help or support.

Like father like son in your partner's case. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, look at the amount of crap he was himself taught. That is what he learnt about relationships from his parents and grandparents and that is not going to be easily unlearnt, if at all. This is who he is.

Which leads me to you. Are you so conflict averse yourself because you saw many arguments between your mum and dad?. What did you learn about relationships when growing up and what do you as her mother also want to teach her about same?. Is what her dad showing her really healthy, no it is not. Is this really the model you want to be showing her now?. Think she deserves better actually and so do you.

Re your comment:-
"He's generous and cares about people, he'll drop everything to go and help someone with anything"

When I saw that, I thought, "oh yet another one of these types, the street angel, house devil one". All nice and happy to those in the outside world but behind closed doors you're seeing what he is really like at home and its not a pretty picture at all. I would argue that he does have an anger problem but not in the way you think. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviours.

How is this man a good father to his child exactly when he treats you with such disdain?. Would you want your DD to have a relationship like this, no you would not. If its not acceptable for her, then why is it acceptable on some level still to you?.

Counselling for your own self and without him present could be useful to you. You also being a people pleaser is a problem as well because that is linked to your own self worth and self esteem. This issue needs addressing too. That will simply be lowered with someone like this man.

My BIL and his wife are both very much like this and when my nephew is playing with his figures and toys (hes coming up 3) he makes the figures talk to each other in the same way - snapping and shouting at eachother the whole time. Can you tell him something like that? If your DD would be the incentive to change then im sure he'd be really upset if she developed the same habit of making her toys talk like that because thats whats "normal"

Ugh, the horror of living with an angry man

A friend of mine decided to stick with it, their kid has massive anxiety (and constantly flinches/can't stop blinking the way a dog does when it expects to be hit)

This is no life

To be clear they never talk to my nephew that way, well never that ive seen anyway! But its just what hes picking up from them being in the car etc, apparently hes also picked up one of their swear words according to FIL.

Is he like this on holidays? Tends to give an indicator if stress related.

I think this irritability/quick to anger is a learned behaviour and tends to come out when a man replicates his childhood life i.e has a wife and child.

Depression can cause this and interestingly I felt more irritable when with ex who was emotional abusive, so you may also be reacting to him.I had to leave him as his anger was constant and he was absolutely unwilling to address the issue.
This is the key part.If he refuses to accept any responsibility or seeks ways to improve you will have no choice.

A number of things can help, medication, try herbal if he won't initially see a GP, mediation, lots of free apps or youtube, counselling with a focus on CBT, maybe EDMR if he had a traumatic childhood.

Essentially he has to change his beliefs, which cause his thoughts and then emotional reactions.
I.e anger when driving, his belief= other drivers should not do xyz.If he changed his belief that he can't change other drivers, it will always happen..he is less likely to have angry thoughts which then lead to angry emotions.

You say he is a DP? What is your work and house situation?

It is utterly shite living with an angry man so the affect in you will be high.If he doesn't take responsibility then please don'g shelter him from your father.That is why you have family to protect you.

Ok I’m going to go against the “leave” advice for once because I think this could still be worked on. It reminds me very much of my friends relationship, her DP was very mild mannered to begin with and she suffered pre and post natal depression (though she would never admit it!) and he became this “shouty” angry person through frustration. She admitted to me she would say things to him like “oh fuck off” etc over silly things sometimes and I know she couldn’t help it because of how she was feeling, but I honestly did feel a level of sympathy for him too.

I agree with frouby, when he’s calm you need to bite the bullet and sit down and talk to him. If you know you could also improve your behaviour then own that too and make a commitment to build a better relationship together.

For a lot of men who had emotionally repressed Victorian style childhoods, the only acceptable male emotion is anger - all the rest are deemed wet or girly.
This is not to excuse it, by any means, but it may explain why he is angry so often- he may be sad, depressed, frustrated, upset, embarrassed, tearful, whatever, but all he can do to express it is shout.
He very definitely needs counselling and to be put in touch with ALL his feelings, so
he can be more appropriate in his reactions.
And you need treatment for the birth injury, as a total lack of sex will be causing frustration and estrangement for both of you.
As your own depression begins to improve on medication, the first sign of recovery is often an increase in irritability. You are no longer apathetic and emotionally blunted, but you are not yet fully cheerful. So your renewed vigour and motivation comes out as irritation and annoyance, which is not helping an already volatile situation.
I’d recommend you both go and see your GP, and/or a private counsellor if finances permit, ax it will be quicker than waiting for an NHS referral.
Good luck, OP. You can turn this around, it just needs willingness to engage on both sides.

It’s no way to live. My DF was the same growing up. I still expect my DH to react to things they way DF would have. But he doesn’t. My DF has mellowed. Retirement helped as he was stressed and unhappy in his job. But that’s not something to hang on to!

You need to talk to him when he is not angry about anything. One evening when dd is in bed. Say you are worried that you are both reacting and angry and shouting and you want you both to deal with it and stop. Don’t attack him. Emphasise that you know you are reacting because you are unhappy and stressed so you are assuming he is too. Talk about strategies you can both use to diffuse situations. Fo instance - years ago when DS was little I read the book 123 Magic to help deal with his behaviour without blowing up. He is 16 now but still that counting to ten helps calm me down at times!

As you say thoughts of dd might incentivise him. But if not you have a decision to make.

Home situation is both working, renting. Joint tenants. No joint account. Neither could afford the house alone.

I've booked a GP appointment, but couldn't get one till June.

Gp is great, she did talk about reconstruction, basically redoing the episiotomy. (she was also quite angry on my behalf, which was refreshing) But that's quite a big thing, so she gave me lidocaine gel in the hope that it would heal over time. It's a little better, but not great at all.

Biggest problem with this is that YOU are saying "how can I fix this?"

You can't. You cannot fix him. You cannot force him to fix it. You cannot make him change.

Only he can. You need to sit down with him and say "look - this is where I'm at. I cannot live like this - the constant anger, the negativity - it's draining the life out of me and it's unhealthy." If he shows that he wants to fix the situation - fine, give him a chance to do so. But HE has to make the appointments, HE has to be the driving force behind it. HE has to want to change.

Otherwise, it won't work. My ex was like this and it spiraled into abuse, both of me and our dcs. It's a slow pushback of boundaries, so you don't see the erosion right away.

He's putting his own needs before his children, feeding his own anger and emotions rather than realising his kids are being damaged; if he can't or wont seek help, then he really is that selfish.

OK. So I text him from work yesterday to say that when I got home we really needed to talk. I didn't want to just spring a serious conversation on him at 9pm with no warning.

Anyway, we ended up having most of the conversation by text, which was actually better I think, because we could both be measured and sensible and it didn't descend into an argument.

He is aware he has a problem, and doesn't know what to do. I've been telling him I'm concerned he is depressed for a while now, he did some online test thing last night which agreed with me, so has agreed to make a Dr's appt. I've told him it has to be next week at the very latest, it can't wait longer.

He wants to change, he understands his behaviour is not normal or acceptable. He offered to leave, but to me that is the easy way out, he would just continue being like this somewhere else. It's just geography. I told him this and he agreed.

I pointed out that I'm not free of blame here, but that I don't have the emotional resources right now to be the bigger person, certainly not when it doesn't actually help in the long term. He said 'let's fix me first, then see if you need to change anything' which I think is positive, my negative behaviour is definitely mostly in response to him, so may all resolve itself together.

So there we are. Progress, possibly. Will just have to see how the Dr's visit goes and where we go from there.

He has suggested some kind of way of me telling him when he's starting to be unpleasant, maybe yellow/red cards or something, but I'm not sure how that would work. Just hoping for the best now really.

That was not progress at all. Why was this at all done by text also?.

Words are cheap OP; look at actions?. Will he actually make a doctor's appointment.

Re your comment:-

"He wants to change, he understands his behaviour is not normal or acceptable. He offered to leave, but to me that is the easy way out, he would just continue being like this somewhere else. It's just geography. I told him this and he agreed".

You should have taken him up on his offer to leave. Also you gave him a get out clause there by stating geography; no wonder he took it. And yes this man would be the self same somewhere else. A few therapy sessions are not going to cut it either.

BTW why is there no joint account?