How do abusive men become abusive?

[VladmirsPoutine]

I've been on MN for a very long time and read some horrendous things that gave me rage about men abusing their partners or spouses. I know that people only post when there's a problem because what's there to reply to a thread basically saying "My husband is amazing, how is everyone!?"

But I wonder, where does it all go wrong? What happens to make seemingly reasonable and respectable men change personality practically over night and lash out at their partners?

A lot of women on here are reasonable and raising sons so where does it go wrong? Life experiences? Social conditioning? This is somewhat of a TAAT. but it's just brought the point home for me again. Women putting up with the most horrendous bastards till the last straw but what made them become that way. No-one is born evil or abusive so where do these abusive men come from.

Agree echobelly. My DH gets totally lost and like a small child being scalded if I assert myself. But he can also get very shitty.
Grew up in a family where the man was boss, mother nurtured.

Luckily, I remind him often....you picked me darling and this is what you've got. No I won't enable or spare his feelings, they don't trump mine.

His communication skills are absolutely diabolical. He's better in our marriage (because he has to be) but still to others, bloody rubbish. He has no confidence asserting himself but if he's comfortable he will and tried it with me, passive aggressive. Fail.

I can see through the whole lot and he gets nowhere with me but he does try to be better in that way, had therapy of his own accord. So....

I've notice with my MIL (and I do love her to bits) the more independent he gets the more she's starting to tell me what to do. Don't push him, don't tell him what to do.

I respect her but he's no longer a child.

people get uncomfortable when you point to upbringing because it seems like you're letting people off the hook but the answer is a combination of nature and nurture, emphasis on nurture.

My x was abusive to me (extremely) and I think these were the factors

1. his father was bad tempered and physically disciplined his kids
2. the younger children were cuter and more appealing and obviously younger
3. my x had to achieve (academically) to get any praise.

Consequently he is extremely successful professionally and on the one hand he believes everybody is beneath him, and yet, there is nothing at his core. He is a vacuum. He has a huge ego but NO core self-esteem.

So being an arsehole to me made him feel good.

There are so many factors. My abusive ex has a massive sense of entitlement. He is entitled to speak to people how he pleases, steal from them and fuck them whenever he wants regardless of whether they want to. In his own mind. Basically he can do whatever the fuck he wants and sod everyone else. If anyone dare argue with that, well, he will dole out the consequences to them. And those consequences are usually violent and nasty.

I look at his parents and can definitely see where they went wrong (total control freaks who have never stopped wiping his arse for him) however, as much as I hate them too I don’t blame them really for what their son is. He’s an adult and his actions are his responsibility despite what he thinks.

I'd like to think my DCs have turned out nice people. But I know if either one of them treated someone else like that, I'd come down on them so hard and they know it too, as would their father. No enabling, no excuses, no blaming someone else.

@fernando81 because parents never treat their children differently to each other...

I had a horrible boss who bullied staff terribly and made us all miserable but then I found out his parents had been killed when he was a kid. After that I forgave his behaviour a bit but it didn’t make it easier to deal with

I was also gaslit by someone who wasn’t an abuser but clearly had issues and I think his problems stemmed from a lifetime of feeling like the less favoured child

From my POV, that of the female parent bringing up a teenage son with my DH: our lad had plenty of teenage rages but we are not a lashing out family. Believe me, with what we’ve had to put up with, I wouldn’t blame anyone, but my point is that our lad is difficult and often in trouble, but after worrying myself sick, I learned that the stuff he gets in trouble for is not violence. I’m a strong seeming woman and my DH is a lovely, gentle bloke with a professional interest in gender politics so there’s no puffed up male proto-type for DS to aspire to. He’s nearly 15 and 6 foot tall and he came back from being with his mates upset the other day because one of them kept wrestling him to the ground in a nasty, challenging kind of way. I’ve realised that just us being his parents runs deep because he would have retaliated a couple of years ago. I’d be like, “I’m having a word with him when I next see him, that’s not the action of a friend!” And DH and DS are of the “leave it Mum/HotSauce” aspect of things. DS was very physical, slapping us when he was a toddler but I just think the total absence of that kind of thing in our house (albeit a lot of talking/arguing and me being the fiery one) has allowed him to be what he just is. He has his faults, but he seems to be turning into a gentler kind of young man, but with his mother’s cheeky gob on him. He’s allowed to cry, to be affectionate, to say he’s feeling down, so fingers crossed for this one.
I hope you get the point I’m trying to make. It’s been a hard couple of years, but if I’m seeing what he’ll become in that sense, I think any partner will be evenly matched and he will see them as equal.

It’s tending to the emotional aspect of things isn’t it? It’s more tiring mentally, but talking and being there is one of my main responsibilities now and if that emotional care side of things is lacking, well, that is frightening for everyone.

I should have known the first time I met ex's parents to steer well clear but because he seemed to recognise their flaws, I assumed he was different and wouldn't end up repeating the cycle - I was wrong.

Abusive people nearly always come from dysfunctional families. And I can also easily see now why his parents are dysfunctional as a unit, because I know their family background too, which was also dysfunctional.

In ex's case, his parents were all about image and wanting to appear affluent and successful. They prioritised the wrong things - they had a nice big house and land, but scrimped and saved on everything while the kids were growing up, so they grew up never feeling important or loved enough. Father worked long hours but when he came home did not want to be bothered by children so mother had to make sure they were out of sight by the time he came home. Father, because of his own dysfunctional upbringing, did not understand that as a family unit, everything should be shared financially and did not give his own wife housekeeping money, so put her under stress to not only look after all the kids but to provide for them too. They prioritised their male children's education over the female children's and created a rift there too, giving the message that males more worthy than females.

All their children are narcissists as a result of this. I didn't see it for many years but I certainly do now.

Toxic Masculinity.

Similar story to many others here, my ex came from a family where his mum was very mentally abusive, a very vicious woman who favoured one over the others, and a very poisonous person towards her entire family, be it young or old. When I first saw them together, I felt sorry for him that he had to endure this, as though I would be enough to compensate. However his anger towards her grew and grew and ended up being taken out on me and himself to an extent as he became very self destructive through drink.

I think I’m most cases it’s down to parenting and the environment they grew up in. Not necessarily having abusive parents - although this is often a reason for it - but general poor parenting. Perhaps they were treated like a king/queen and so feel very entitled, or given no boundaries, or witnessed abuse in their parents marriage so see it as the norm - so many reasons but most are to be found in childhood.

My abusive ex came from a family where his dad was a tyrant behind closed doors (but charming to everyone else) and a mum who did everything she was told to. He and his sister were expected to behave perfectly at all times and his parents were very concerned with appearances - signs of wealth, perfect behaviour, seeming to be a perfect family, nobody ever doing anything outside of what is culturally expected, the house had to be immaculate at all times etc. He took on all of these attitudes and replicated them with whoever he was on a relationship with.

He was also gay and in the closet (95% sure about this) and could never come out because of his parents homophobia and how they’d made him believe that homosexuality was shameful and wrong, so he took out his anger at not being straight on women when they failed to erase his gayness. But that’s another story.

I think it's a desire to exert control, wherever that desire comes from, whether it's upbringing or inborn or influence.

They tend to be fine as long as everything is going their way but as soon as something starts to slip - dinner isn't on the table, woman stands up for herself etc, they can feel control sliding away and they snap. Violence, either physical or emotional is the only way they can feel they are getting control of the situation.

It's all about being able to sit back with a self-satisfied smile and go 'there, I sorted that, didn't I?' whether it was by smashing plates, punching woman or locking child into a cupboard.

@WellDoneTiger

“My husband maintains that he is perfect and had an ideal upbringing. I have thought for such a long time that there was something missing. He is an abusive twat in every way. It has taken me a long, long time to recognise how awful he is. MNers were telling me years and years ago. It is hard to accept.

I think there is something wrong with his brain.”

Snap.

My husbands parents are amazing. I tell them everything about his behaviour. They are so upset by it.

They think he’s got mental problems too, but he won’t hear of it. He thinks he’s the image of perfection in every way.

My ex had a hard childhood but used it as an excuse for how badly he treated me. All the traits others mention on here he had. I walked out whilst pregnant with my dad and I think he got the shock of his life. I am so glad I got away from him as he made me so unhappy. He played the victim and fekt sorry for himself but had no empathy for anyone else. He needs help but I am glad he’s not dragging me down anymore

Not dad but dear daughter x

They dont just change overnight. I think the signs are there very early on but in fhe early stages of a relationship where you feel so in love you dont see it.

It can easily be masked as i love you so much -spend all your time with me. Then before you know it you dont go out anymore.

A playfight can be just a bit too rough.

An argument leads to an object being thrown.

They doubt themselves so accuse you of cheating.

Some of the things arent immediately obvious as abuse and shockingly sometimes i think you can find yourself retalliating which skews it even more.

I also believe there are plenty of female partners that are abusive its not just a male thing.

My ex’s parents broke up when he was 16, his brother 14.

His Mum took his brother to live with her, and he had to stay with his dad.

His dad was a hoarder and was abusive to his wife.

My ex grew up to be a hoarder and abusive to his girlfriend.

If I’d stayed with him, our son or daughter may well have comt8nued the cycle.

Regarding women, my mother was abusive and neglectful to me. She grew up in an abusive and neglectful household.

Cycles .... [shrugs]

Having studied this as part of a degree:

There's no sure fire causal effect, but the highest level of correlation is between how a father acts towards women/children and how their sons (occasionally daughters, but not often) turn out even when the father is mainly absent. If father is a regular figure it's a very high likelihood that a son will follow.

The other cause is one/both parents always treating their child as if the world revolves around them, although that is easier to 'fix' as there will be plenty of daily experience to counteract it. But a son growing up with seeing a man being a mini god in the home, will internalize that very strongly and genuinely believe it to be right.

Intervention programs talk about core values of a person and how they have the view that they are the most important person, so anyone not conforming to that and supporting of it is breaking the rules and deserves punishment. Even if the person can see that their actions go too far, they still think their motive was good/right, but perhaps they should have curbed their behavior a bit.

This attitude is shown by convicted criminals, even serial killers, who voice the belief that they made their victims happy, and that their victims somehow deserved to be killed. It's pretty deeply ingrained and hard to shake.

And let's not forget how prevalent 'strong' (domineering) male role models are, so that even with parents who are very equal, a son can grow up with the belief that he is superior and should be obeyed.

In my opinion, men can act fine as boyfriends because there's no pressure and they still have some freedom.

When you move in together or get married, they feel oppressed (because they can't just do whatever they like, whenever they like) and lash out at the woman and blame her because they can't sit around playing x-box, drinking with their mates, being a slob, whatever.

I have seen it so many times with guys I know/friends' husbands.

Basically, so many of them are brought up to be entitled spoiled babies and when they suddenly have to consider another person, they flip.